Vampires are evil

[Gushazan]

You try not to judge. Your motto is live and let live. So what one of your companions drinks the blood of other living beings? Who cares if they've murdered innocents for hundreds of years? Everyone is capable of redemption you say to yourself. Then you talk to families effected by your blood sucking friend's evil actions.

Pretty much impossible to meet a good Vampire. If they are good, most likely they're only half. Hope this isn't considered a spoiler, but hearing from Asterion's victims in Act 3 was one of the most heart wrenching stories I've wtinessed. It made me try to understand who he really is, as a person.

I reflected and from what I recall, he is solely interested in himself. He doesn't seem to have anyone else's best interest at heart. I don't recall if his beginnings had anything that redeems him.

I know he was someone's thrall at the time. I know that this overlord Vampire, who controlled him was the real hand behind Asterion's choices and actions, but Asterion could at least be accountable for his part.

[Gushazan]

Originally posted by retsam1:

Originally posted by FoxFox:

He literally complains about how bad it feels to save the refugees. Not wanting to be an enthralled killer does not make you a good person. He is still selfish, he doesn't want to stop powerful evil characters, he wants to become powerful himself. He says power can be used for good as well as evil, but the kind of power he seeks is inherently evil.

I'd say its even more apt to just say he's self absorbed and centered and mewls about when he doesnt get what he wants and broods, just like the early years/books of Lestat from Ann Rices books... though arguably even later too.

Astarion is arguably a caricature idea copied in homage of someone's like for a book character vs a character of depth.

I disagree. I think his character is pretty deep. He reminds me of a few people.

[Gushazan]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Afaik, Jander Sunstar[forgottenrealms.fandom.com] is the only good vampire in FR. Otherwise, all D&D vampires are evil. It's just what losing your soul and having it replaced by a mass of negative energy does to someone. There are very few sentient undead in D&D that aren't evil. Astarion is no exception. Of course he's evil, he doesn't try to hide that he's evil (after he tries to bite you).

He tries to rationalize that he's evil because of Cazador, but even when he was mortal he was driven by fear to seek more power. If you remember his 'origin story' he agreed to be made a spawn by Cazador after being mugged by some Gur. Even then he wanted to be strong enough that no one could hurt him, and that's the driving idea behind his motivations.

He's not even mad at Cazador for the things he's done to him. He's mad at Cazador because Cazador could do those things to him. He's perfectly willing to do the same things, because, as far as he's concerned, that's what powerful people do.

There it is. I didn't remember all of his orgin. I started playing with him at the end of Act 2 because I thought he would be good for lockpicking and wanted to see if he was useful in fights. He never wants to do anything for anyone. Always wants to avoid anything difficult.

[Gushazan]

Originally posted by Philogosten:

Turn him over to the vamp hunter who I wish was a companion. They put this absolute sigma vampire hunter in a game and then are like "No he isnt a companion. You can have white haired Edward Cullen though" They couldnt even make Astarion cool they went with "oh im a vamp with a sad story waahhh" Like at least make the vamp character cool. If he was even as cool as your typical fodder vamp from Buffy that would be a drastic improvement.

He's the best lockpicker in the game though! lol Who else is going to roll 30?

[Gushazan]

Originally posted by dlo.dirtyjobs:

Oath of Vengeance Paladin here.... soon as he said vampire... I staked him. ^^

I couldn't. I'm chaotic good. If I can bear to play lawful in one of my runs, that's what I'll do.

[Gushazan]

Originally posted by SotiCoto:

Originally posted by gh0stwizard:

>Vampires are evil
Did you hear about "Twilight" movie? Looks like not. Ah, man, this game is full of parodies. May be I am wrong about Twilight, it just the movie I watched once. I am pretty sure there are plenty other works (books, serials, etc) where vampires are good. If you think that such quality is unacceptable or incorrect, well, you are not a lone in the whole world. Other people think differently than you.

Vampires in D&D are technically labelled as "Evil". This isn't optional. They are compelled to do things that are classified arbitrarily as "Evil" according to D&D ruleyness.
It is stupid, of course.... but it is right there in the rules.

Originally posted by Grumpy:

That's sound insane, i'm not gonna touch that.

It isn't insane. It is 100% sane. But probably best you don't touch it anyway. You might get it dirty.

That makes sense.

[FoxFox]

Originally posted by Gushazan:

Originally posted by FoxFox:

"Must"? Even without the alignment system, Astarion is clearly a companion written to support you on evil playthroughs.

We can get philosophical about what evil truly means, but within the game context I see Astarion as purely selfish and generally opposed to helping others, which to me is evil.

If killing or hurting others purely for fun is the only thing you consider to be evil, then sure, Astarion is not completely evil. Hardly anyone in the game is evil then, except maybe the Bhaal followers.

I have friends like Astarion. We have been able to stay friends because I understand this aspect of their personality.

He's a vampire spawn who was complicit in the killing of many, many innocents, including children. I hope you're speaking metaphorically...

[DeMasked]

Originally posted by Grumpy:

Buffy was for teens though, this character is a little more grounded .

That's why he compensate with the sarcastic persona.

Kinda reminds me of Thomas from the Dresden Files book series. The emotional baggage of being a monster and having done some terrible things while looking for a way out or to redeem oneself.

It makes sense that some people would create an alternate persona in order to hide who they really are and the trauma / past that they are running from.

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by ✙205🍉🐆→:

Vampires are evil
If they were good, they would have killed themselves, it's logical.

Well i'm happy we don't follow theses Dnd rules because if my main became a vampire he wouldn't kill himself.

[Zero McDol]

It's a game....

[Garbagepanda]

Originally posted by SotiCoto:

... Astarion attacked me. So I cut him down. His corpse remains on the beach by the nautiloid.

I can't really judge him for anything else and I'm not sure I'd want to. I have very simple motivations for why I do things.
If I like someone in a game, they get to live, and I might even help them out if it interests me.
If I dislike someone... well, I might kill them. Depends what I dislike about them and how much.

For instance, I'm pretty obsessive compulsive about symmetry. I have an asymmetry threshold. Small things I can overlook. A badge on one side of a uniform. The inherent asymmetry of shirt buttons. The folds of a scarf or sash. That stuff is generally fine. Anything more though? No way.
I couldn't care less if someone is a mass murderer, dismembers innocents or whatever... but if they wear mismatched socks, I will absolutely kill them.

Astarion didn't breach my asymmetry threshold, but he did attack me, and I'm not cool with that.
Wyll breached my asymmetry threshold with his heterochromia and scars.
Karlach charged right over my asymmetry threshold and I killed her on the spot.
Shadowheart is fine. She may live.
Gale is fine... as long as he shuts up and never speaks to me again.
Lae'zel was disrespectful, so I killed her.

people have no idea this is how 90% of people who play this ♥♥♥♥ do it. I have never seen a more loud minority than this community.

Lae'zel? LITERAL NAZI EQUIVALENT, you can die, instantly.
Shadow-Heart, bearable and mid, she can live
Wyll, warlock homie gang, you can live
Gale, weird and litteraly addicted to magic items, you can die
Astarion, mfer pulled a knife on ME, HE DIES
Karlack, good mix of serious and jokeyness, you can live.

I could not give less of a ♥♥♥♥ what happens after act one. if you cannot make BEARABLE characters, I have no reason to put up with their ♥♥♥♥. Simple As.

[snowyonetwo]

Vampires are no more good or evil than any other being. BUUUUUUTTTT...

They are beings that literally survive off the life-force of others. Every time they feed, no matter how consensual, willing, and/or ample, there is the risk that they will go too far. Feeding necessitates that they put the life of another being in risk and at danger. Rats and other animals? There's only so long that can sustain. Blood packs? Not only are those meant to help others in need but they can also only last so long. Criminals? How many criminals can you realistically HUNT? How long until until you've gone from the mafia to pickpockets? How many 'good' vampires could even a place like NYC even support?

If you are a 'good' vampire, you will have likely already walked out to see your final sunrise. Otherwise you're putting the lives of everyone around you at risk and in danger just by existing. Maybe you'll last a year, five, ten, or even a hundred... but you're immortal. You WILL eventually slip. One day the hunger WILL claim you and you WILL drain the life from someone innocent. Someone you love. Someone who consented because they thought you were only taking a sip.

We only see evil vampires because any good vampires long since saw their final dawn; likely of their own choice and volition. Only those who don't care, who are willing to see people as nothing more than prey, will remain.

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by Garbagepanda:

if you cannot make BEARABLE characters, I have no reason to put up with their ♥♥♥♥. Simple As.

SOMEONE DID THE BEAR THINGY !

[Lucifronz]

Sounds like someone doesn't understand the mentality that comes from being abused by a merciless piece of ♥♥♥♥.

Astarion's story is all about keeping him from becoming what Cazador's master made him... or if you're evil, helping him along that path.

He wants to embrace the powers he gets (vampire or brain parasite) because he thinks he'll finally be free of other people's abuse, and it's understandable that he lost a lot of his empathy a long time ago, being forced into an existence where he seduced people to be turned into cattle.

[Gushazan]

Originally posted by FoxFox:

Originally posted by Abisha:

do you serious expect someone that lives for over 400 years not doing something bad?
i sure if a single human being even a saint like mother teresa after 400 years do something she should not have done.

I didn't say anything like that. But anyway, Astarion did more than "something bad". People, including children, died because of him. At every opportunity he chooses to do the things that serve him best, even when it means harming others. He simply has no regard for other people's needs, which is (in DnD) the definition of evil. The "nobody's perfect" defense really doesn't cut it.

Yeah, nobody is perfect, but that's besides the point. It's evident that Astarion is the type who would watch you slowly succumb to death while he played video games on the couch next to you. His defense would be that you didn't say you were dying.

[Gushazan]

Originally posted by Lucifronz:

Sounds like someone doesn't understand the mentality that comes from being abused by a merciless piece of ♥♥♥♥.

Astarion's story is all about keeping him from becoming what Cazador's master made him... or if you're evil, helping him along that path.

He wants to embrace the powers he gets (vampire or brain parasite) because he thinks he'll finally be free of other people's abuse, and it's understandable that he lost a lot of his empathy a long time ago, being forced into an existence where he seduced people to be turned into cattle.

It's possible that being abused makes you rally against such behavior. Abraham Lincoln's abuse at the hands of his father made him rally against slavery. Abe felt that his father enslaved him during his youth. He was a hard worker and every penny he made went to his father.

Besides, Astarion is an adult. Hardened criminals can still show remorse. He doesn't even have that. One thing about abuse that people don't mention much is: sometimes the person getting abused likes it. Sometimes it's kink, most of the time it's an unspoken urge.

lol I just remembered the movie about Lincoln as a vampire slayer