Vampires are evil

[Gushazan]

You try not to judge. Your motto is live and let live. So what one of your companions drinks the blood of other living beings? Who cares if they've murdered innocents for hundreds of years? Everyone is capable of redemption you say to yourself. Then you talk to families effected by your blood sucking friend's evil actions.

Pretty much impossible to meet a good Vampire. If they are good, most likely they're only half. Hope this isn't considered a spoiler, but hearing from Asterion's victims in Act 3 was one of the most heart wrenching stories I've wtinessed. It made me try to understand who he really is, as a person.

I reflected and from what I recall, he is solely interested in himself. He doesn't seem to have anyone else's best interest at heart. I don't recall if his beginnings had anything that redeems him.

I know he was someone's thrall at the time. I know that this overlord Vampire, who controlled him was the real hand behind Asterion's choices and actions, but Asterion could at least be accountable for his part.

[retsam1]

Originally posted by Gushazan:

You try not to judge. Your motto is live and let live. So what one of your companions drinks the blood of other living beings? Who cares if they've murdered innocents for hundreds of years? Everyone is capable of redemption you say to yourself. Then you talk to families effected by your blood sucking friend's evil actions.

Pretty much impossible to meet a good Vampire. If they are good, most likely they're only half. Hope this isn't considered a spoiler, but hearing from Asterion's victims in Act 3 was one of the most heart wrenching stories I've wtinessed. It made me try to understand who he really is, as a person.

I reflected and from what I recall, he is solely interested in himself. He doesn't seem to have anyone else's best interest at heart. I don't recall if his beginnings had anything that redeems him.

I know he was someone's thrall at the time. I know that this overlord Vampire, who controlled him was the real hand behind Asterion's choices and actions, but Asterion could at least be accountable for his part.

(Spoilers)

If you choose to keep Astarion in your group, you dont let him become the Vampire Ascendant, and you choose to command the elder brain to destroy all tadpoles and then destroy itself, Astarion looses his immunity to the sun and wimperingly runs off. Its cathartic for those who dont have much in the like of him as a vampire. He does show some remorse for things he's done in that sort of play through but overall he's as he is, not more so because of his 200 years of sum experiences but because his base personality well before that.

As someone briefly already mentioned, Christie Golden wrote a really good Ravenloft novel (part DnD mind you) called Vampire in the Mists which explores a good elven vampire's trials and tribulations and meeting (and subsequently being for a time a mentor) to one of the more infamous vampires in DnD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_of_the_Mists

It is though overall the nature of a vampire (not unlike the story of the Emperor in BG3) to follow its nature which is inherently to do things deemed evil. Good vampires are thus the rather rare exception to the rule and mostly counter-intuitive to the lore and play in dnd... just as a "good" mindflayer is.

Character wise, Astarion is a blatant and an anemic (pun intended) facsimile of Lestat from Ann Rice's Vampire series, really.

[Nomus]

That;s Why Astarion is the only character that I never took out of camp

[shogunsmurf]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Loveless:

Originally posted by shogunsmurf:

Pretty sure that Thralls don't have a actual alignmnet and are given the alignment of those who they are enthralled too.....

Also you kill animals, drain them of their blood to eat their meat, this is all fine ? but if in said process a vampire is added to drink the blood instead of wasting it, evil ?

Dietry requirements does not make one evil or not. And unless you on purpose make a animal suffer while killing it for consumption, is not in anyway evil or good.

The only type of moron that believes other wise would be a vegan.

In D&D vampirism goes beyond dietary requirements. It is an unholy, unslakeable hunger brought on by the vacancy of a soul and the damnation that comes with it that drives a vampire to consume blood.

There's never been any indication in D&D that blood serves any other purpose than to temporarily slake this thirst.

Right but if I only consume blood for the local butcher, am I evil ? because i'm pretty sure evil has to do with inflicting unnessacary harm and suffering and stuff ? Again nothing you said, makes someone evil. You are evil when you act a certain way.

Here's btw the actual basic sheet for a vampire in E5

https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Vampire#content
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Vampire_spawn

So Lawful and Neutral evil, which means they can be reasoned with, which is prolly why that leads too :

https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dhampir_(5e_Race)

And those can be any alignment! because the entire reason they are classified as "Evil" is because of their bloodthirst.

And you can than be a stick and go "muh playerbook" but i'll go "but muh choice how to quench bloodthirst is what determines if you are evil or not and look their off-spring can be good!". In fact their offspring are known to hunt vampires that can't control their thrist.

[meleander]

Originally posted by Gushazan:

You try not to judge. Your motto is live and let live. So what one of your companions drinks the blood of other living beings? Who cares if they've murdered innocents for hundreds of years? Everyone is capable of redemption you say to yourself. Then you talk to families effected by your blood sucking friend's evil actions.

Pretty much impossible to meet a good Vampire. If they are good, most likely they're only half. Hope this isn't considered a spoiler, but hearing from Asterion's victims in Act 3 was one of the most heart wrenching stories I've wtinessed. It made me try to understand who he really is, as a person.

I reflected and from what I recall, he is solely interested in himself. He doesn't seem to have anyone else's best interest at heart. I don't recall if his beginnings had anything that redeems him.

I know he was someone's thrall at the time. I know that this overlord Vampire, who controlled him was the real hand behind Asterion's choices and actions, but Asterion could at least be accountable for his part.

If you play as a Dark Urge you have done worse :P

[FoxFox]

Astarion is clearly evil - Neutral Chaotic Evil probably if you follow the old alignment system.

It's not entirely incomprehensible how he got there: he's been tortured and kept in forced servitude for centuries. His backstory is heart-wrenching from a personal point of view and it's hard not to sympathize and feel sorry for him. The top-notch voice acting helps a great deal here, he truly has many different faces, from his soothing, overly familiar way of speaking, to his frighteningly casual calls for extreme violence ("Lets's turn someone inside out" in combat), to his voice almost breaking when he discusses his past.

He knows he did bad things. Since the tadpole he's been trying to avoid feeding on sentient beings. He does not necessarily want to atone for his past, but he is ok with taking revenge on his former master on behalf of his own victims.

But in the end, he is probably the most selfish and evil companion of them all (except possibly Minthara, but I really don't know her). He is the only one who wants to control the tadpole, rather than destroy it. He's the only one who doesn't need any convincing of taking additional tadpoles to gain more power. In part because it is the tadpole that finally released him from his master's control, but also in part because he wants to control the Absolute rather than destroy it once you learn what the Absolute is.He has some lines about how power isn't good or evil and tries to convince you that the Absolute's power could be used for good.

Having Astarion in you party gives you a natural ally if you want to take a certain approach to some of the game's dilemma's. That's his main role, from a story-telling perspective, to support "non-good" playthroughs.

[Abisha]

Originally posted by FoxFox:

Astarion is clearly evil - Neutral Chaotic Evil probably if you follow the old alignment system.

It's not entirely incomprehensible how he got there: he's been tortured and kept in forced servitude for centuries. His backstory is heart-wrenching from a personal point of view and it's hard not to sympathize and feel sorry for him. The top-notch voice acting helps a great deal here, he truly has many different faces, from his soothing, overly familiar way of speaking, to his frighteningly casual calls for extreme violence ("Lets's turn someone inside out" in combat), to his voice almost breaking when he discusses his past.

He knows he did bad things. Since the tadpole he's been trying to avoid feeding on sentient beings. He does not necessarily want to atone for his past, but he is ok with taking revenge on his former master on behalf of his own victims.

But in the end, he is probably the most selfish and evil companion of them all (except possibly Minthara, but I really don't know her). He is the only one who wants to control the tadpole, rather than destroy it. He's the only one who doesn't need any convincing of taking additional tadpoles to gain more power. In part because it is the tadpole that finally released him from his master's control, but also in part because he wants to control the Absolute rather than destroy it once you learn what the Absolute is.He has some lines about how power isn't good or evil and tries to convince you that the Absolute's power could be used for good.

Having Astarion in you party gives you a natural ally if you want to take a certain approach to some of the game's dilemma's. That's his main role, from a story-telling perspective, to support "non-good" playthroughs.

do you serious expect someone that lives for over 400 years not doing something bad?
i sure if a single human being even a saint like mother teresa after 400 years do something she should not have done.

[FoxFox]

Originally posted by Abisha:

do you serious expect someone that lives for over 400 years not doing something bad?
i sure if a single human being even a saint like mother teresa after 400 years do something she should not have done.

I didn't say anything like that. But anyway, Astarion did more than "something bad". People, including children, died because of him. At every opportunity he chooses to do the things that serve him best, even when it means harming others. He simply has no regard for other people's needs, which is (in DnD) the definition of evil. The "nobody's perfect" defense really doesn't cut it.

[Abisha]

Originally posted by FoxFox:

Originally posted by Abisha:

do you serious expect someone that lives for over 400 years not doing something bad?
i sure if a single human being even a saint like mother teresa after 400 years do something she should not have done.

I didn't say anything like that. But anyway, Astarion did more than "something bad". People, including children, died because of him. At every opportunity he chooses to do the things that serve him best, even when it means harming others. He simply has no regard for other people's needs, which is (in DnD) the definition of evil. The "nobody's perfect" defense really doesn't cut it.

in his defense he was a trall, they not have a choose none so ever.
Tralls in DnD are blood controlled like a tadepol.

[shogunsmurf]

Originally posted by Abisha:

Originally posted by FoxFox:

Astarion is clearly evil - Neutral Chaotic Evil probably if you follow the old alignment system.

It's not entirely incomprehensible how he got there: he's been tortured and kept in forced servitude for centuries. His backstory is heart-wrenching from a personal point of view and it's hard not to sympathize and feel sorry for him. The top-notch voice acting helps a great deal here, he truly has many different faces, from his soothing, overly familiar way of speaking, to his frighteningly casual calls for extreme violence ("Lets's turn someone inside out" in combat), to his voice almost breaking when he discusses his past.

He knows he did bad things. Since the tadpole he's been trying to avoid feeding on sentient beings. He does not necessarily want to atone for his past, but he is ok with taking revenge on his former master on behalf of his own victims.

But in the end, he is probably the most selfish and evil companion of them all (except possibly Minthara, but I really don't know her). He is the only one who wants to control the tadpole, rather than destroy it. He's the only one who doesn't need any convincing of taking additional tadpoles to gain more power. In part because it is the tadpole that finally released him from his master's control, but also in part because he wants to control the Absolute rather than destroy it once you learn what the Absolute is.He has some lines about how power isn't good or evil and tries to convince you that the Absolute's power could be used for good.

Having Astarion in you party gives you a natural ally if you want to take a certain approach to some of the game's dilemma's. That's his main role, from a story-telling perspective, to support "non-good" playthroughs.

do you serious expect someone that lives for over 400 years not doing something bad?
i sure if a single human being even a saint like mother teresa after 400 years do something she should not have done.

Like how uninformd are you ? Mother Teresa was a act, she was a horrible woman actually.

She never spent a dime in India or any place she was active from her donations, that all went to the Vatican. And her "miracle healing to take away pain", was her walking past people are they gave them painkillers.

And then went around convincing people to not seek proper medical treatment under the idiotic notion that : , "believed the sick must suffer like Christ on the cross".

[meleander]

Originally posted by FoxFox:

Astarion is clearly evil - Neutral Chaotic Evil probably if you follow the old alignment system.

It's not entirely incomprehensible how he got there: he's been tortured and kept in forced servitude for centuries. His backstory is heart-wrenching from a personal point of view and it's hard not to sympathize and feel sorry for him. The top-notch voice acting helps a great deal here, he truly has many different faces, from his soothing, overly familiar way of speaking, to his frighteningly casual calls for extreme violence ("Lets's turn someone inside out" in combat), to his voice almost breaking when he discusses his past.

He knows he did bad things. Since the tadpole he's been trying to avoid feeding on sentient beings. He does not necessarily want to atone for his past, but he is ok with taking revenge on his former master on behalf of his own victims.

But in the end, he is probably the most selfish and evil companion of them all (except possibly Minthara, but I really don't know her). He is the only one who wants to control the tadpole, rather than destroy it. He's the only one who doesn't need any convincing of taking additional tadpoles to gain more power. In part because it is the tadpole that finally released him from his master's control, but also in part because he wants to control the Absolute rather than destroy it once you learn what the Absolute is.He has some lines about how power isn't good or evil and tries to convince you that the Absolute's power could be used for good.

Having Astarion in you party gives you a natural ally if you want to take a certain approach to some of the game's dilemma's. That's his main role, from a story-telling perspective, to support "non-good" playthroughs.

We don't know who he was before and for elf being a 39 is still very very young, like a teenager of sorts. After that he was a thrall, tortured for about 150 years.

Now Astarion is still making his choice on the matter to be good or evil. He more or less doesn't know better due to his trauma and yet, he is still not as far gone and want to change.

[meleander]

Originally posted by FoxFox:

Originally posted by Abisha:

do you serious expect someone that lives for over 400 years not doing something bad?
i sure if a single human being even a saint like mother teresa after 400 years do something she should not have done.

I didn't say anything like that. But anyway, Astarion did more than "something bad". People, including children, died because of him. At every opportunity he chooses to do the things that serve him best, even when it means harming others. He simply has no regard for other people's needs, which is (in DnD) the definition of evil. The "nobody's perfect" defense really doesn't cut it.

Yes, he is extremely selfish, but that may be due to trauma

[Abisha]

Originally posted by shogunsmurf:

Originally posted by Abisha:

do you serious expect someone that lives for over 400 years not doing something bad?
i sure if a single human being even a saint like mother teresa after 400 years do something she should not have done.

Like how uninformd are you ? Mother Teresa was a act, she was a horrible woman actually.

She never spent a dime in India or any place she was active from her donations, that all went to the Vatican. And her "miracle healing to take away pain", was her walking past people are they gave them painkillers.

she is still a Saint, actions of the past do not matters.

[shogunsmurf]

Originally posted by Abisha:

Originally posted by shogunsmurf:

Like how uninformd are you ? Mother Teresa was a act, she was a horrible woman actually.

She never spent a dime in India or any place she was active from her donations, that all went to the Vatican. And her "miracle healing to take away pain", was her walking past people are they gave them painkillers.

she is still a Saint, actions of the past do not matters.

Anyone who celebrates that vile woman as a saint should revisit what Jezus said and realize they will be going straight to hell for doing so.

[meleander]

Originally posted by Abisha:

Originally posted by shogunsmurf:

Like how uninformd are you ? Mother Teresa was a act, she was a horrible woman actually.

She never spent a dime in India or any place she was active from her donations, that all went to the Vatican. And her "miracle healing to take away pain", was her walking past people are they gave them painkillers.

she is still a Saint, actions of the past do not matters.

Actually Mother Theresa didn't give them painkillers (even forbid to give them to the dying because of her faith), but she took them when she was dying so she is a rather controversial figure

[shogunsmurf]

Originally posted by meleander:

Originally posted by Abisha:

she is still a Saint, actions of the past do not matters.

Actually Mother Theresa didn't give them painkillers (even forbid to give them to the dying because of her faith), but she took them when she was dying so she is a rather controversial figure

She forbid them from getting anti-biotics and said she didn't allow them to take pain killers either (but she secretly did so she could have her PR foto's of going around doing miracle healing and taking away peoples pain).

She was a evil narcacist PR tool for the Vatican to get money, simply expect her to behave as such and everything you just said despite being contradictory makes sense.

Because that's actual evil, to pretend to be good to get money to enrich yourself while actually increasing the pain and suffering and death around you.