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[Throthgar]

You know, I've invested 350 hours into Baldur's Gate 3 and I'm willing to share something with you.

Everyone is praising the game how good it is, but the more time you spend in the game - the more disappointment you uncover.

1) Tons of cut out content that worked really well, examples are Cleric worship of Baal / Bhane / Myrkul

2) Cut out unique dialogues, like being cleric of Shaar and having unique interaction with Shadowheart

3) 5-10 minutes of antagonist screen time, starting from Kethric Thorm, ending with Gortash. I'm sorry but Jon Irenicus (R.I.P. David Warner, may his sole rejoice in heaven, the amazing voice of Jon Irenicus) is way better than all of the antagonists in Baldur's Gate 3 combined. Good old Bioware of early 2000s was amazing in plot/character writing and development. I'm not even talking about amazing Kreia from KOTOR 2 and Joshua the Burned Man from Fallout New Vegas made by golden old Obsidian in the old days (now a shallow corpse of it's former glory the same way as modern Bioware). Poles from Poland know how to write good characters and plot, same goes to CDPR and Babylon 5 TV show written by Michael Straczynski. Cyberpunk 2077 characters and plot are amazing, the gameplay was awful, hope they will fix it with the Phantom Liberty DLC.

4) Baldur's Gate 2 had 17 companions, all of the unique and interesting in their own way, In Baldur's Gate 3 we get half at best, Gale, Astarion, Shadowheart are the only interesting ones. Wyll is cool in cheering department but he is a typical good boy, Karlah is always beyond positive and generic, Lae'zel is beyond annoying, no wonder Shadowheart hates her bullying character. Lae'zel tries to kill our character many times, tries to kill Shadowheart, always get's into trouble and always tries to betray in the most obvious way, she is beyond annoying and generic.

5) Look what Larian has done with Viconia. She was such a deep character in Baldur's Gate 2, like a flower bud, a rose with thorns. You could see great changes through the game withing her character as she developed into a charming person. Just look what they did with her, turned her into brainwashed short screen time lunatic villain. This is disrespectful to old Bioware writing if you ask me, but who cares nowadays, no one except for the old gamers and me.

6) Baldur's Gate city reminds me of stifling Stratholme of Warcraft III or Blightown of Dark Souls 1. I remind you that 70% of players (official information as far as I know) left Dark Souls 1 because of that location. Same with Baldur's Gate city, it's the third character I led to the city, I just can't finish the game, not only does the city have performance issues, 10700k + 3070ti still gets 20-30 FPS on Ultra setting in Full HD with new Nvidia drivers, but my friend with RTX 4090 and 13900k has the same issues in QHD and 4K. My Youtube channel is pretty small, only 7000 subs but my friends and my subs that watch most of my streams and keep telling me the same things - they leave the game when they face the Baldur's Gate city. It's beyond terrible, colors are washed out, the streets are like in old Tbilisi (keep in mind that the city was designed more than 300 years ago, it's suffocating streets can barely fit more than 1 person sometimes, I get the same feeling with Baldur's Gate and it's beyond terrible).

7) Act 2 is also cut into ribbons compared to the amazing Act 1. Feels like a walk through a rectum. No sidesteps whatsoever. Only grey and dark biomes, no interesting diversity. Small, short compared to Act 1 and shallow.

8) People say the endings are terrible. I haven't seen them yet but if it's true - it's such a shame.

9) 5th edition of DND is terrible compared to 2nd, 3rd and 4th. So say DND players. I'm a Warhammer 40k player myself, 3rd and 4th edition, to my humble opinion all glory goes to the God Emperor of Mankind of 40k and it's tabletop, but I can still see the difference in editions. Don't know why Larian picked the limited 5th edition instead of the other ones, maybe you can elaborate on the subject in the comments, because I have very limited knowledge of DND.

10) Fans of the game are saying it's 10 our of 10 when in reality the game is at best 75% finished, it needs it's old working content from EA returned, the Baldurs Gate city finished (or remade if you ask me, into more open and beautiful place with biome diversity at least in urban city landscapes), the Upper City finished and built, second act expanded and New Game Plus added like in Mass Effect 2 (just with buffs and a bit of unique NPC/Companions reactions, like - oh dang, have I seen you before? That would've been cool and would've added tons of attachment to your character and even more replayability). One more difficulty level, punishing but fair, Iron Man impossible for no save cheese. But what do we get? Swen Vincke said in his interview - I'm done with the game, time to move on. Larian earned tons of money on the game, it has a lot of potential in it yet the devs decided to leave it as it is, except for fixing bugs here and there. You know, I personally sold 10 copies of the game to my friends who knew nothing about the game, it feels truly sad to hear such words and see such decisions. I know the devs are SUPER tired of the game since it took more than 6 years to develop instead of 4 years, but the huge success should at least make them motivated enough to finish the game.

11) I'm an old school gamer since Neverwinter Nights 2 Mask of Betrayer, Kotor 1 | 2, Jade Empire, Dragon Age Origins and Fallout New Vegas and let me tell you, Baldur's Gate 3 deserves 9-9.5 out of 10 in gameplay department but as a true CRPG game it deserves at best 6-7.5 out of 10, tops. The more people I talk to, the ones who managed to get to act 3 and not write a review based on 10-20 hours of act 1 gamplay, the similar general score I hear from them. I know the devs won't read this message, but you, fellow gamers, stalwart heroes, especially old RPG | CRPG gamers who have developed great taste in games through your great life and gaming experience will agree with me on most accounts, or maybe even critique the game even more than I do.

12) I would like to develop mods for the game, but I can't do anything. 1300 hours of Skyrim modding experience and mediocre knowledge of Python programming is not enough to make high quality plot / characters changes / new characters / gameplay mods and locations changes for the game. The game has huge potential, but it seems Larian has neglected us, especially old gamers, such a shame since Sven Vincke was boasting in his recent interview about making content for 0.0001% of gamers while they can't even deliver on what they promised themselves, saying: "we decided it's not good and not interesting, so it's gone from the game". This quote probably spreads to the 25% of cut out and unfinished content of the base game I guess.

13) If my memory doesn't deceive me, Sven Vincke said - modifications for new landscapes + landscape changes + city changes will not be allowed to come to fruition. Such a disappointment. So, as I see it, Larian is afraid of moders who can develop mods like Enderal: Forgotten Stories since they can cast the studio into shadow, just the same way
SureAI did with Bethesda.

Conclusion:

The game is good compared to modern games BUT It's so sad to see such an amazing game go to waste, I guess we will have to wait for remake of good old Baldur's Gate 2 | Neverwinter Nights 2 The Mask of the Betrayer for the amazing RPG / CRPG experience. I pray to the Lord Jesus Christ for you all, for the devs too and I hope someday someone, or maybe even me, will have enough skill to breathe new life into this amazing game and unleash it's true potential.

Will be glad to read your comments and answer them, if there will be any at all.

God bless you people, especially in these difficult and dark times.

In the name of Jesus Christ.

Amen.

[Izlude]

15 years ago this game would be average. Its just that modern games have become so bad that medicore is now cause for celebration. Basically if every game is poo and then one game is a plain unsalted cracker then that cracker is amazing compared to the poo.

[id795078477]

It is still leagues ahead of what is considered norm these days. Yeah, they dropped the ball somewhat in Act 3. But it's not surprising they could not keep the pace and winded down there. I think if you enjoyed the game for 350 hours - it's a massive win because it doesn't try to sell you battle pass, cosmetics or loot box. For the money you paid it is more than a fair deal.

I'm totally with you on the mods. They should embrace it and support it. Skyrim is where it is more than a decade later because the mods brought entire new experiences, expansions and gameplay to it. Better yet - I really, really hoped Larian would learn from the success of NWN 1 and make it possible to have playable multiplayer modules.

As a creator of one of such modules for NWN 1 (aka PW) - I can tell. You can do almost everything there, including UI, full gameplay customization, new content, everything. That game was released more than 20 years ago and is still played to this day thanks to multiplayer modules.

[Odyssey]

Originally posted by Yolo:

You know, I've invested 350 hours into Baldur's Gate 3 and I'm willing to share something with you.

Everyone is praising the game how good it is, but the more time you spend in the game - the more disappointment you uncover.

1) Tons of cut out content that worked really well, examples are Cleric worship of Baal / Bhane / Myrkul

2) Cut out unique dialogues, like being cleric of Shaar and having unique interaction with Shadowheart

3) 5-10 minutes of antagonist screen time, starting from Kethric Thorm, ending with Gortash. I'm sorry but Jon Irenicus is way better than all of the antagonists in Baldur's Gate 3 combined. Good old Bioware of early 2000s was way better in plot/character writing, I'm not even talking about amazing Kreia from KOTOR 2 and Joshua the Burned Man from Fallout New Vegas made by golden old Obsidian in the old days (now a shallow corpse of it's former glory the same way as modern Bioware)

4) Baldur's Gate 2 had 17 companions, all of the unique and interesting in their own way, In Baldur's Gate 3 we get half at best, Gale, Astarion, Shadowheart are the only interesting ones. Wyll is cool in cheering department but a typical good boy, Karhal is always beyond positive and generic, Lae'zel is beyond annoying, no wonder Shadowheart hates her bullying character. Lae'zel tries to kill us many times, tries to kill Shadowheart, always get's into trouble and always tries to betray in the most obvious way, she is beyond annoying and generic.

5) Look what Larian has done with Viconia. She was such a deep character in Baldur's Gate 2, like a flower bud, a rose with thorns. You could see great changes through the game withing her character as she developed into a charming person. Just look what they did with her, turned her into brainwashed short screen time lunatic villain. This is disrespectful to old Bioware writing if you ask me, but who cares nowadays, no one except for the old gamers.

6) Baldur's Gate city reminds me of stifling Stratholme of Warcraft III or Blightown of Dark Souls 1. I remind you that 70% of players (official information as far as I know) left Dark Souls 1 because of that location. Same with Baldur's Gate city, it's the third character I led to the city, I just can't finish the game, not only does the city have performance issues, 10700k + 3070ti still gets 20-30 FPS on Ultra setting in Full HD with new Nvidia drivers, but my friend with RTX 4090 and 13900k has the same issues in QHD and 4K. My Youtube channel is pretty small, only 7000 subs but my friends and my subs that watch most of my streams and keep telling me the same things - they leave the game when they face the Baldur's Gate city. It's beyond terrible, colors are washed out, the streets are like in old Tbilisi (keep in mind that the city was designed more than 300 years ago, it's suffocating streets can barely fit more than 1 person sometimes, I get the same feeling with Baldur's Gate and it's beyond terrible).

7) Act 2 is also cut into ribbons compared to the amazing Act 1. Feels like a walk through a rectum. No sidesteps whatsoever. Only grey and dark biomes, no interesting diversity. Small, short compared to Act 1, shallow.

8) People say the endings are terrible. I haven't seen them yet but if it's true - it's such a shame.

9) Fans of the game are saying it's 10 our of 10 when in reality the game is at best 75% finished, it needs it's old working content from EA returned, the Baldurs Gate city finished (or remade if you ask me, into more open and beautiful place with biome diversity at least in urban city landscapes), the Upper City finished and built, second act expanded and New Game Plus added like in Mass Effect 2 (just with buffs and a bit of unique NPC/Companions reactions, like - oh dang, have I seen you before? That would've been cool and would've added tons of attachment to your character and even more replayability). One more difficulty level, punishing but fair, Iron Man impossible for no save cheese. But what do we get? Swen Vincke said in his interview - I'm done with the game, time to move on. Larian earned tons of money on the game, it has a lot of potential in it yet the devs decided to leave it as it is, except for fixing bugs here and there. You know, I personally sold 10 copies of the game to my friends who knew nothing about the game, it feels truly sad to hear such words and see such decisions. I know the devs are SUPER tired of the game since it took more than 6 years to develop instead of 4 years, but the huge success should at least make them motivated enough to finish the game.

10) I'm an old school gamer since Neverwinter Nights 2 Mask of Betrayer, Kotor 1 | 2, Jade Empire, Dragon Age Origins and Fallout New Vegas and let me tell you, Baldur's Gate 3 deserves 10 out of 10 in gameplay department but as a true CRPG game it deserves at best 7-7.5 out of 10, tops. The more people I talk to, the ones who managed to get to act 3 and not write review based on 10-20 hours of act 1 gamplay, the similar general score I hear from them. I know the devs won't read this message, but you, fellow gamers, stalwart heroes, especially old RPG | CRPG gamers who have developed great taste in games through your great life and gaming experience will agree with me on most accounts, or maybe even critique the game even more than I do.

11) I would like to develop mods for the game, but I can't do anything. 1300 hours of Skyrim modding experience and mediocre knowledge of Python programming is not enough to make high quality plot / characters changes / new characters / gameplay mods and locations changes for the game. The game has huge potential, but it seems Larian has neglected us, especially old gamers, such a shame since Sven Vincke was boasting in his recent interview about making content for 0.0001% of gamers while they can't even deliver on what they promised themselves, saying: "we decided it's not good and not interesting, so it's gone from the game". This quote probably spreads to the 25% of lacking content of the base game I guess.

12) If my memory doesn't deceive me, Sven Vincke said - modifications for new landscapes + landscape changes + city changes will not be allowed to come to fruition. Such a disappointment. So, as I see it, Larian is afraid of moders who can develop mods like Enderal: Forgotten Stories since they can cast the studio in shadow, just the same way
SureAI did with Bethesda.

Conclusion:

It's so sad to see such an amazing game go to waste, I guess we will have to wait for remake of good old Baldur's Gate 2 | Neverwinter Nights 2 The Mask of the Betrayer for the amazing RPG / CRPG experience. I pray to the Lord Jesus Christ for you all, for the devs too and I hope someday someone, or maybe even me, will have enough skill to breathe new life into this amazing game and unleash it's true potential.

Will be glad to read your comments and answer them, if there will be any at all.

God bless you people, especially in these difficult and dark times.

In the name of Jesus Christ.

Amen.

how would you typically get into modding? ive always been on the end of dl and using em but always wanted to make em, but no real understanding where to start, do i need to learn coding or dling certain programs to access the files like maya, 3dmax, etc?

it is extremely disappointing to hear they wont support landscape and city mods, i was really hoping some official stories coming into the game with modders remaking whole campaigns, but i wonder will it actually stop people from attempting?

[Throthgar]

Originally posted by Philogosten:

15 years ago this game would be average. Its just that modern games have become so bad that medicore is now cause for celebration. Basically if every game is poo and then one game is a plain unsalted cracker then that cracker is amazing compared to the poo.

I agree. Like you I miss good old Bioware of 2000s and beyond amazing Obsidian with extremely talented writers

R.I.P. Bioware and Obsidian , thank you for such a great childhood ;(

[SoundsOfNight]

No, you're just bored and obsessive over a game you have spent entirely too much time playing. 350 is probably on the extreme end since release.

[The Rain King]

I love it when people talk about the 100s of hours they spent on a game but then complain how the game isn't perfect. Even if you paid $100 for the game, worst case scenario, you still received 100s of hours of entertainment for literally pennies on the dollar.

What were you complaining about again?

[Throthgar]

Originally posted by id795078477:

It is still leagues ahead of what is considered norm these days. Yeah, they dropped the ball somewhat in Act 3. But it's not surprising they could not keep the pace and winded down there. I think if you enjoyed the game for 350 hours - it's a massive win because it doesn't try to sell you battle pass, cosmetics or loot box. For the money you paid it is more than a fair deal.

I'm totally with you on the mods. They should embrace it and support it. Skyrim is where it is more than a decade later because the mods brought entire new experiences, expansions and gameplay to it. Better yet - I really, really hoped Larian would learn from the success of NWN 1 and make it possible to have playable multiplayer modules.

As a creator of one of such modules for NWN 1 (aka PW) - I can tell. You can do almost everything there, including UI, full gameplay customization, new content, everything. That game was released more than 20 years ago and is still played to this day thanks to multiplayer modules.

I've invested more than 500 hours into Fallout New Vegas, hundreds of hours into Neverwinter games and 1500 hours on pirate version of Skyrim modding it. The amount of time invested into BG3 is little compared to that, but Act 1 is amazing, I agree.

I know Neverwinter 1 and 2 (especially 2) supports huge modifications, that's what made them amazing, plus second edition of DND is way better that 5th. Though I'm Warhammer 40k player of 3rd and 4th edition, I still can see and feel the difference. Though all glory of tabletop goes to the old Warhammer 40k Codexes.

They won't support modifications for landscape and probably plot development too ...

Such a shame ....

[Throthgar]

Originally posted by DragonSoundxSG:

No, you're just bored and obsessive over a game you have spent entirely too much time playing. 350 is probably on the extreme end since release.

I plan to invest over 1500-2000 hours into Baldur's Gate 3. There is still side content of every unique dialogue to be explored, I guess Larian can use such intel as good game testing.

[Throthgar]

Originally posted by The Rain King:

I love it when people talk about the 100s of hours they spent on a game but then complain how the game isn't perfect. Even if you paid $100 for the game, worst case scenario, you still received 100s of hours of entertainment for literally pennies on the dollar.

What were you complaining about again?

I do not waste money on Bethesda and Blizzard games, I play only old games such as Fable 1, Beyond Good and Evil, Black and White 2 and etc.

Thank you for you attention.

[Throthgar]

Originally posted by id795078477:

It is still leagues ahead of what is considered norm these days. Yeah, they dropped the ball somewhat in Act 3. But it's not surprising they could not keep the pace and winded down there. I think if you enjoyed the game for 350 hours - it's a massive win because it doesn't try to sell you battle pass, cosmetics or loot box. For the money you paid it is more than a fair deal.

I'm totally with you on the mods. They should embrace it and support it. Skyrim is where it is more than a decade later because the mods brought entire new experiences, expansions and gameplay to it. Better yet - I really, really hoped Larian would learn from the success of NWN 1 and make it possible to have playable multiplayer modules.

As a creator of one of such modules for NWN 1 (aka PW) - I can tell. You can do almost everything there, including UI, full gameplay customization, new content, everything. That game was released more than 20 years ago and is still played to this day thanks to multiplayer modules.

Can you send me a link of the mods you've developed for Neverwinter games please? I'm quite intrigued about it

[The Rain King]

Originally posted by Yolo:

Originally posted by Philogosten:

15 years ago this game would be average. Its just that modern games have become so bad that medicore is now cause for celebration. Basically if every game is poo and then one game is a plain unsalted cracker then that cracker is amazing compared to the poo.

I agree. Like you I miss good old Bioware of 2000s and beyond amazing Obsidian with extremely talented writers

R.I.P. Bioware and Obsidian , thank you for such a great childhood ;(

"Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that longing leans and beckons."

James Russell Lowell

Seriously, if BG3 came out 15 years ago, it would have rivaled the second coming of Christ.

[Tenor Sounds]

Let us know if Jesus gets back to you on the whole "praying for mods for BG3" thing, I'd be curious to hear what he thinks.

[Throthgar]

Originally posted by Tenor Sounds:

Let us know if Jesus gets back to you on the whole "praying for mods to BG3" thing, I'd be curious to hear what he thinks.

Very interesting question. I'm not the one to answer. Pray to the Lord and you shall have your answer, if you truly seek answers.

My life isn't that easy, dunno about you but Baldur's Gate 3 and other good RPG / CRPG's is a method of fantasize of a more interesting world | realm, nothing bad in it as far as I know.

[id795078477]

Originally posted by Yolo:

Originally posted by id795078477:

It is still leagues ahead of what is considered norm these days. Yeah, they dropped the ball somewhat in Act 3. But it's not surprising they could not keep the pace and winded down there. I think if you enjoyed the game for 350 hours - it's a massive win because it doesn't try to sell you battle pass, cosmetics or loot box. For the money you paid it is more than a fair deal.

I'm totally with you on the mods. They should embrace it and support it. Skyrim is where it is more than a decade later because the mods brought entire new experiences, expansions and gameplay to it. Better yet - I really, really hoped Larian would learn from the success of NWN 1 and make it possible to have playable multiplayer modules.

As a creator of one of such modules for NWN 1 (aka PW) - I can tell. You can do almost everything there, including UI, full gameplay customization, new content, everything. That game was released more than 20 years ago and is still played to this day thanks to multiplayer modules.

I've invested more than 500 hours into Fallout New Vegas, hundreds of hours into Neverwinter games and 1500 hours on pirate version of Skyrim modding it. The amount of time invested into BG3 is little compared to that, but Act 1 is amazing, I agree.

I know Neverwinter 1 and 2 (especially 2) supports huge modifications, that's what made them amazing, plus second edition of DND is way better that 5th. Though I'm Warhammer 40k player of 3rd and 4th edition, I still can see and feel the difference. Though all glory of tabletop goes to the old Warhammer 40k Codexes.

They won't support modifications for landscape and probably plot development too ...

Such a shame ....

Well.. if we're about to measure our e-peens :)

My hours in Skyrim: 2649 (avid modder of it)
My hours in Fallout: 4219 (avid modder of it)
My hours in NWN 1: 684 (EE) + who knows how much before it went on Steam (avid modder of it)
My hours in NWN 2: who knows how much, it's not on steam (I'd wager in 1000s)

Yeah. It's a shame they didn't release tools yet - but the hope's still there! CK took a LOT of time to go out for Skyrim and Fallout, definitely longer than a month.

P.S. NWN 1 is a 3e, NWN 2 is a 3.5e. My favorite is definitely between NWN 1 and 2: I love NWN 1 mechanics and NWN 2 classes (so what's the deal? I've just modded NWN 2 classes into NWN 1!)

[Throthgar]

Originally posted by The Rain King:

Originally posted by Yolo:

I agree. Like you I miss good old Bioware of 2000s and beyond amazing Obsidian with extremely talented writers

R.I.P. Bioware and Obsidian , thank you for such a great childhood ;(

"Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that longing leans and beckons."

James Russell Lowell

Seriously, if BG3 came out 15 years ago, it would have rivaled the second coming of Christ.

I highly doubt your statement, but it's your opinion, if you stick to such a point of view - it's your choice.