The races need rebalancing

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

The removal of racial stat bonuses has sort of thrown the racial balance out of wack and Larian should really consider giving a second look over. Some races, like the dwarves and gnomes, really got the short end of the stick from the racial rebalance. Specifically, Gold Dwarves, Shield Dwarves and Rock Gnomes could really use an extra racial trait.

[Gloomseeker]

JimmysTheBestCop původně napsal:

BG3 boasts about different high grounds I actually find Soalsta high ground was much more important.

I kind think range in BG3 is over powered. High/low ground honestly doesnt matter much. I rarely pay attention. And its easy to get advantage so even if you take a negative to hit you are getting 2 dice. And sharpshooter cancels ground height while crossbow expert is basically point blank.

Now it is weird how bow users dont have anything to give them point blank. So Larian set it up you might as well dual wield hand xbows.

Indeed. Plus you don't even need to invest into dual wielding which makes them the better option for anyone any time you want to convert a bonus action into a ranged attack.

Do you even bother with crossbow expert?

I can't help feeling Dwarves get the worst of it. I can see some utility for Lucky with Halflings and Gnomes do get better saves but that's nothing to write home about.

[Belegc]

in my opinion, removing the racial attribute bonuses was wrong - I mean, its a Role-Playing Game, if I want to play a "Weakened" unlikely race-class combination I should be able to do so. its part of "overcoming" the challenge from an RP perspective, fighting against the "norm". this streamlining and standardization hurts the RP element. sure, I can select the same attributes as they were before, but its not the same...

however, I disagree with the opinion that the short races are weaker in terms of bonuses. their movement can still be improved with some proper gear and spells, Darkvision is great for anyone, Lucky trait is very good for halflings and advantage on all mental attributes saves (INT, WIS,CHA) for gnomes is insane. getting high AC is easy on any race, but having good saves is much more difficult.
I am currently playing a Forest Gnome abjuration wizard and its my goal to have proficiency and advantage on all saves apart from STR:
DEX - prof. from feat and advantage from boots
CON - prof. from 1 sorcerer level and advantage from Armor/Amulet (endgame)
INT - prof. from feat and advantage as a gnome
Wis - Prof. from helmet and advantage as a gnome
Cha - prof. from 1 sorcerer level and advantage as a gnome

I plan to multiclass Wyll into warlock/Paladin for further increase in saves. Armour of Persistence for constant resistance spell for more saves and warding bond for half damage from everything that actually hits you.

[parent child bowl]

Belegc původně napsal:

in my opinion, removing the racial attribute bonuses was wrong - I mean, its a Role-Playing Game, if I want to play a "Weakened" unlikely race-class combination I should be able to do so. its part of "overcoming" the challenge from an RP perspective, fighting against the "norm". this streamlining and standardization hurts the RP element. sure, I can select the same attributes as they were before, but its not the same...

Good thing that the game doesn't stop you from doing so.

[C]

Races aren't supposed to be balanced or equal in the first place.

I tend to always play dwarves in all games because dwarves are cool. I don't care if we're not as good as elves or some lizardmen freaks.

[Something completely different]

BigJ původně napsal:

Lockfågel, Paradoxriddaren původně napsal:

Hey. Karlach is no elfspawn. And neither is Wyll. Or Gale. Or honesty anyone except Shadowheart.

They are all tall though.

Shadowheart, Halsin, Astarion, Minthara, Jaheira.

So we have 4 elves at any given time, 0 dwarves, 1 toad, 1 thiefling and 2 humans well and Minsk but much, much later.

You see the issue here?

No. With your biased counting style you could argue just as easily you get 6 humans as well. If you count half elves as elves and not humans then you're doing it wrong.

Also, if you want to spell tiefling wrong at least spell it wrong as Teethling. Some thing you gotta do with a modicum of style.

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

Belegc původně napsal:

in my opinion, removing the racial attribute bonuses was wrong - I mean, its a Role-Playing Game, if I want to play a "Weakened" unlikely race-class combination I should be able to do so. its part of "overcoming" the challenge from an RP perspective, fighting against the "norm". this streamlining and standardization hurts the RP element. sure, I can select the same attributes as they were before, but its not the same...

however, I disagree with the opinion that the short races are weaker in terms of bonuses. their movement can still be improved with some proper gear and spells, Darkvision is great for anyone, Lucky trait is very good for halflings and advantage on all mental attributes saves (INT, WIS,CHA) for gnomes is insane. getting high AC is easy on any race, but having good saves is much more difficult.
I am currently playing a Forest Gnome abjuration wizard and its my goal to have proficiency and advantage on all saves apart from STR:
DEX - prof. from feat and advantage from boots
CON - prof. from 1 sorcerer level and advantage from Armor/Amulet (endgame)
INT - prof. from feat and advantage as a gnome
Wis - Prof. from helmet and advantage as a gnome
Cha - prof. from 1 sorcerer level and advantage as a gnome

I plan to multiclass Wyll into warlock/Paladin for further increase in saves. Armour of Persistence for constant resistance spell for more saves and warding bond for half damage from everything that actually hits you.

Okay, what about the dwarves? Why would I, as a fighter, ever pick a Shield Dwarf other than RP purposes?

[parent child bowl]

Naram-Sin původně napsal:

Okay, what about the dwarves? Why would I, as a fighter, ever pick a Shield Dwarf other than RP purposes?

That should be the only reason to pick any race imo.

[BigJ]

Something completely different původně napsal:

BigJ původně napsal:

Shadowheart, Halsin, Astarion, Minthara, Jaheira.

So we have 4 elves at any given time, 0 dwarves, 1 toad, 1 thiefling and 2 humans well and Minsk but much, much later.

You see the issue here?

No. With your biased counting style you could argue just as easily you get 6 humans as well. If you count half elves as elves and not humans then you're doing it wrong.

Also, if you want to spell tiefling wrong at least spell it wrong as Teethling. Some thing you gotta do with a modicum of style.

Doesn't matter, for all I care it's 6 elves since githyanki are arrogant, supremacist and have pointy ears.

The fact is we don't have a single grounded, vertically challenge companion.

I'd even accept Sazza, but nope, nuffin, too many bloody elves.

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

The change made all races viable for all classes... it did remove some stat bonuses from a couple of races. Namely gold dwarves and half-elves. But all in all i think this is a positive change. You can now do combos you'd never get before, like half-orc wizards or dwarf rogues. Where before certain races just never got played for certain classes because there stat drop just made it unviable. Hate it all you like but it is better over all, its better.

[BigJ]

Naram-Sin původně napsal:

Belegc původně napsal:

in my opinion, removing the racial attribute bonuses was wrong - I mean, its a Role-Playing Game, if I want to play a "Weakened" unlikely race-class combination I should be able to do so. its part of "overcoming" the challenge from an RP perspective, fighting against the "norm". this streamlining and standardization hurts the RP element. sure, I can select the same attributes as they were before, but its not the same...

however, I disagree with the opinion that the short races are weaker in terms of bonuses. their movement can still be improved with some proper gear and spells, Darkvision is great for anyone, Lucky trait is very good for halflings and advantage on all mental attributes saves (INT, WIS,CHA) for gnomes is insane. getting high AC is easy on any race, but having good saves is much more difficult.
I am currently playing a Forest Gnome abjuration wizard and its my goal to have proficiency and advantage on all saves apart from STR:
DEX - prof. from feat and advantage from boots
CON - prof. from 1 sorcerer level and advantage from Armor/Amulet (endgame)
INT - prof. from feat and advantage as a gnome
Wis - Prof. from helmet and advantage as a gnome
Cha - prof. from 1 sorcerer level and advantage as a gnome

I plan to multiclass Wyll into warlock/Paladin for further increase in saves. Armour of Persistence for constant resistance spell for more saves and warding bond for half damage from everything that actually hits you.

Okay, what about the dwarves? Why would I, as a fighter, ever pick a Shield Dwarf other than RP purposes?

As a fighter you'd could pick Duergar for Enlarge or shield dwarf for the +1 on hp, which turns to +12 at max level. More fitting for a wild heart bear barb but u know.

Most importantly dwarves look the best in fighter gear dyed blue, specially male dwarves, looking great matters, poor Githyanki are eternally forced to be lanky and have some rather jaring combat animations.

[BigJ]

AzureTheGamerKobold původně napsal:

The change made all races viable for all classes... it did remove some stat bonuses from a couple of races. Namely gold dwarves and half-elves. But all in all i think this is a positive change. You can now do combos you'd never get before, like half-orc wizards or dwarf rogues. Where before certain races just never got played for certain classes because there stat drop just made it unviable. Hate it all you like but it is better over all, its better.

You could...do those before. It's only min maxers that couldn't deal with having a +4 instead +5

[Pimpin Pippin]

The short races are not for melee classes due to movement penalty, i believe.
Also do the short races have a reduced size, which makes Shove much worse?

If you can sit at 18m and shoot/spell then the short races can be considered.
Gnome and half-ling feel 100% like caster oriented races, and dwarves are a mixed bag with the "dark" dwarves imho being overall the best.

[Zebulon Ecthelion]

parent child bowl původně napsal:

Naram-Sin původně napsal:

Okay, what about the dwarves? Why would I, as a fighter, ever pick a Shield Dwarf other than RP purposes?

That should be the only reason to pick any race imo.

Sure, but there's nothing there to make you feel like you're a Shield Dwarf if you aren't a caster.

[gbuglyo]

parent child bowl původně napsal:

Naram-Sin původně napsal:

Okay, what about the dwarves? Why would I, as a fighter, ever pick a Shield Dwarf other than RP purposes?

That should be the only reason to pick any race imo.

This. I can't believe how many people seem to pick a race or class for the stats only. I wish I could say TTRPG players were different, but... :)

[JimmysTheBestCop]

Pimpin Pippin původně napsal:

The short races are not for melee classes due to movement penalty, i believe.
Also do the short races have a reduced size, which makes Shove much worse?

If you can sit at 18m and shoot/spell then the short races can be considered.
Gnome and half-ling feel 100% like caster oriented races, and dwarves are a mixed bag with the "dark" dwarves imho being overall the best.

Sometimes that is what is fun playing shorties both in cRPGs and tabletop. My favorite in Owlcat was a Halfing melee pig rider.

1 of my favorite DnD shorties was a Gnome double longsword dueling STR build. Optimal nope. Fun yes.

Hell BG2 EE had Dwarven Defender a kit that could literally only be used by 1 race.


I rolled a dark Gnome Ranger/Rogue in BG3. Longstride makes ups up for a little less movement but most AI enemies just bum rush your group anyway. I initial planned on duel wielding melee but its kinda broken you get dex bonus on attack if you dual xbows for free with no feat. Not sure if its a bug or Larian 5e homebrew shenanigans.

Larian did the short races so dirty. And this isnt a brand new IP its the 3rd! BG1 and BG2 gave respect to shorties.

Having the Baldurs Gate name on this game is actually a disgrace. Should have just called it Forgotten Realms and moved it to Waterdeep or Suldolphor.

None of the modern gamers either heard of Baldurs Gate or played it. SO why trade on its name.

BG3 is like Jaws 3.