Anyone else struggle with "replayability"?

[Rain :)]

I genuinely can't be bothered to replay the game- I think it has to do with how the linear the levels are. In a game like Skyrim for example, you can go wherever you want after you do the introduction. The game doesn't force any order on you, and you're free to immediately be a wizard, a thief, an assassin, a warrior, a soldier, a mercenary, etc.

But here, I find that that... well... it's all very listed.

Spoilers

After the ship crashes, we all realistically do the following:

• Hold Alt, and loot everything on the beach
  
• Go find Shadowheart
  
• Proceed down the most linear path, collecting the loot you know is there with no RNG whatsoever
  
• Pick up the other NPC's of your choice
  
• et cetera, et cetera.

Basically, every interaction feels tedious to do with a capped walking speed, and cookie cutter encounters past the first play-through; but don't get me wrong- the first play-through was really enjoyable. It's just- I don't know how or why I see an excess of 60,000 people playing the game at any given time.

I find that there's no real... value, in replaying it, as your rather uninteresting character of choice doesn't have any actual dialogue in conversations where they matter- so if the character is as thin as cardboard, the story is on rails, and there's a bunch of balancing issues with picking certain races, classes, etc. why is there replay value?

I don't see why I wouldn't just load up a Human (for proficiency) Rogue (moar proficiency) with high Dex and Cha to do everything but Strength checks- and the game gives you a Fighter & Barbarian in your party... You could argue that there's merit to replaying exclusively for Durge, but that's about it imo.

Anyone feel the same? Differently? How can I enjoy this game again?

[Sentient_Toaster]

Consequences and depth require limits.

Skyrim gives you that 'freedom' because it's super shallow and nothing you do actually has serious meaningful consequence of any kind which reduces the amount of work that BGS actually had to do to make it work.

I can think of games that offer a greater amount of meaningful choice and much more replayability, but they put far more effort into writing those branching narratives and making various playing styles viable (with system mastery) and relatively little into making things pretty., See, for instance, "Age of Decadence". It's ugly, it'll stab you in the gut and leave you for dead if you blindly assume that you're an overpowered Chosen One hero, and your paths through the game can differ an awful lot given the interactions between backgrounds, factions, various decision points etc. It's also literally impossible to have a build that's good at everything, because constraints actually exist and you're not playing a de-facto demigod.

[Rain :)]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Consequences and depth require limits.

Skyrim gives you that 'freedom' because it's super shallow and nothing you do actually has serious meaningful consequence of any kind which reduces the amount of work that BGS actually had to do to make it work.

I can think of games that offer a greater amount of meaningful choice and much more replayability, but they put far more effort into writing those branching narratives and making various playing styles viable (with system mastery) and relatively little into making things pretty., See, for instance, "Age of Decadence". It's ugly, it'll stab you in the gut and leave you for dead if you blindly assume that you're an overpowered Chosen One hero, and your paths through the game can differ an awful lot given the interactions between backgrounds, factions, various decision points etc. It's also literally impossible to have a build that's good at everything, because constraints actually exist and you're not playing a de-facto demigod.

But how does this relate to BG3 and replayability in this game?

I understand what you mean about Skyrim where you can make or break the dark brotherhood and be considered a hero by everyone regardless- but I don't think it has to be a bipolar choice. I think there can be a balance of depth and freedom- CP2077 does this a little better, where depending on what you do it actually carries depth with the interactions. I'm just confused about why people actually replay this game- to me, it just feels like rewatching a movie to be honest. For the most part, I find that it's mindless repetition until you get to X or Y choice where you can actually change something- otherwise, it's just following the path so-to-speak

[Hobocop]

It relates specifically because you're not going to be able to do everything in a single playthrough unlike Skyrim where you can be the grandmaster of every single guild and organization you can join with no prerequisites under the veneer of total freedom, but it ends up being entirely inconsequential because of the lack of ingame limitations and lasting consequences.

Just compare, say, Morrowind's werewolves with Skyrim's werewolves and it's night and day. You're in complete control the entire time in Skyrim beyond the rite of induction, so you don't really feel it's effects during gameplay beyond getting spammed with the same five voicelines from guards all the time and not getting a resting XP bonus (ooh, scary). And this makes it hard to really relate to Kodlak's plight beyond what you're told because you never really experience any of the dramatic consequences of the flipside of this power as the player.

[Sentient_Toaster]

I see three possible motivations for replaying this game.

(1) Dark Urge run, for those that didn't play Dark Urge the first time through.

(2) Playing on Honor mode for the additional challenge, perhaps laying on additional personal challenges to see if you can pull them off. For instance, somebody has played through the game tracking every single action he used and only using each action at most once, to see if he could.

(3) Playing with different build ideas as an experiment in character optimization.

[arador]

killing 1 more gith is worth replaying

[Rain :)]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

It relates specifically because you're not going to be able to do everything in a single playthrough unlike Skyrim where you can be the grandmaster of every single guild and organization you can join with no prerequisites under the veneer of total freedom, but it ends up being entirely inconsequential because of the lack of limitations.

And I'd agree if it didn't require an excess of 100 hours to get to the parts where there's a branching narrative- if they gave me a way to fast forward to these junctions without requiring me to manually save for each major event- I'd have probably found some replayability.

However, right now, it's just a chest opener and "Send to camp" simulator after doing a single play-through if I'm being honest. The stuff you can do is also rather plain- you can be the good guy, or the bad guy- there's no real wiggle room.

Take the Druid's grove for instance- it's clear cut; good or bad. Like I had said, I see possible replayabilty for a Durge run, but after that- I don't get it, and I don't understand why so many people continue to play the game. I used Skyrim as an example not to reflect branching story choices, (but it actually does have a lot that you've probably never noticed. YouTube is full of a bunch of them showing consequences or story moments that the large majority of players never stumbled upon because they didn't do things in a certain order) but because I consider that it has actual replayability. How you handle fights, quests, sneaking- it all changes based on how you make your character. It makes it so that you actually have a want to replay the game, and you can replay it differently without being forced down the same path doing the same thing each run.

Here, it feels like I was saying. Loot box with predetermined loot inside, collect all you can carry, Send to camp. The choices that matter are so far and few between the monotonous walking and collecting of stuff you already know is there, that I don't feel compelled to actually replay the game

[Mithrandir]

To each their own.

It's a high replayability game for me.

Reasons :

- Tav vs premade character runs
- Dark urge good and evil runs
- Different classes for the main and companions
- Different outcomes based on choices
- Different difficulty runs

[Rain :)]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

I see three possible motivations for replaying this game.

(1) Dark Urge run, for those that didn't play Dark Urge the first time through.

(2) Playing on Honor mode for the additional challenge, perhaps laying on additional personal challenges to see if you can pull them off. For instance, somebody has played through the game tracking every single action he used and only using each action at most once, to see if he could.

(3) Playing with different build ideas as an experiment in character optimization.

And that's exactly it- it starts devolving into challenges instead of enjoyment. I just wish it wasn't so black and white. Good and bad. There's a "good" playthrough, and an "evil" playthrough. That doesn't feel very in depth to me. I can understand doing two max, just to see the choices, but because it takes so long and it's so repetitive, I'm more likely just to watch a YT video than do it myself.

As for different builds, there's already a hard meta. Going against it just goes back to what I was saying about the replayability being almost entirely for a challenge instead of enjoyment. I also think I found the best build for me- a human rouge who is capable of talking, fighting, sneaking, sleight of hand- all of the other stats are meaningless when you have the other main characters who are proficient in their respective categories. You can use the Barbarian or Fighter for strength checks, Shadowheart for wisdom, Gale for intelligence- I don't feel overly compelled to make a new build. I'd use Astarion if he wasn't such a tool- I like to be a goodhearted rogue in the games that let me

[seeker1]

No, I don't struggle with replayability, I just keep replaying.

Prolly won't do so again until Patch 7.

[alanc9]

Originally posted by Rain :):

And I'd agree if it didn't require an excess of 100 hours to get to the parts where there's a branching narrative

If you want to have a serious discussion, use something like real numbers. This is just silly.

[Rain :)]

Originally posted by Mithrandir:

To each their own.

It's a high replayability game for me.

Reasons :

- Tav vs premade character runs
- Dark urge good and evil runs
- Different classes for the main and companions
- Different outcomes based on choices
- Different difficulty runs

But do you actually sit through the hundreds of hours to do that ♥♥♥♥- or do you just watch a YT video? Because nobody has given me an actual reason why it's worth trudging through the slow ass story to get to the junctions that matter- I think I'm probably just gonna find a YT vid to see what I've missed, and dust my hands from the game... I never understood the grindy games like this where everything moves so slowly. If they had a "jump to" option where you could go back to junctions without manual saves, I'd have enjoyed that, and probably replayed it myself

[Heu, Iterum Id Feci]

Originally posted by Rain :):

Originally posted by Mithrandir:

To each their own.

It's a high replayability game for me.

Reasons :

- Tav vs premade character runs
- Dark urge good and evil runs
- Different classes for the main and companions
- Different outcomes based on choices
- Different difficulty runs

But do you actually sit through the hundreds of hours to do that ♥♥♥♥- or do you just watch a YT video? Because nobody has given me an actual reason why it's worth trudging through the slow ass story to get to the junctions that matter- I think I'm probably just gonna find a YT vid to see what I've missed, and dust my hands from the game... I never understood the grindy games like this where everything moves so slowly. If they had a "jump to" option where you could go back to junctions without manual saves, I'd have enjoyed that, and probably replayed it myself

Not every game is made for everyone...if you don't enjoy it, don't play it...that's perfectly fine...Why do you need others to convince you to play? Do whatever you want.

[Rain :)]

Originally posted by alanc9:

Originally posted by Rain :):

And I'd agree if it didn't require an excess of 100 hours to get to the parts where there's a branching narrative

If you want to have a serious discussion, use something like real numbers. This is just silly.

If you're actually doing the things the game has to offer and not speed-running, 100 hours is fair. If you don't take the time to loot everything, talk to the individual NPC's, etc, no ♥♥♥♥ it's not gonna be that long

[alanc9]

Originally posted by Rain :):

I also think I found the best build for me- a human rouge who is capable of talking, fighting, sneaking, sleight of hand- all of the other stats are meaningless when you have the other main characters who are proficient in their respective categories. \

The italed bit is doing all the work in this non-argument.

[alanc9]

Originally posted by Rain :):

Originally posted by alanc9:

If you want to have a serious discussion, use something like real numbers. This is just silly.

If you're actually doing the things the game has to offer and not speed-running, 100 hours is fair. If you don't take the time to loot everything, talk to the individual NPC's, etc, no ♥♥♥♥ it's not gonna be that long

But you said it takes 100 hours to get to the parts where there's a branching narrative, not to get to the end of that narrative.

Originally posted by Rain :):

And I'd agree if it didn't require an excess of 100 hours to get to the parts where there's a branching narrative

What did you actually mean when you wrote that? What are you even looking for?

You can't expect us to guess what you mean. You have to actually write it.