good (honor mode)Wizard endgame build that can match damage of throwers, ranged bard or sorcadin

[RollerPig]

does this exist?

[oddball]

Originally posted by alanc9:

I don't know about anyone else, but reading threads like this makes me want to never even attempt Honour Mode.

You don't have to do any of these wacky builds, it just makes things easier. I don't bother with it and play straight and it's mostly fine.

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by AmberWinter:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

No. Casters are strictly inferior to martials when it comes to pure DPS.

highly inaccurate, especially in the endgame.

While casters do have high dps in endgame you are not gone be able to bring more than one this is mostly due to the lack of caster gear making every item contested at endgame.

Can tell you this I had shotgun lock and light cleric in my first run my cleric was doing basically its act 2 damage in act 3. Next run light cleric is my only caster and since gear is not heavily contested it gets all the upgrades it can dream of in other words it is dealing way more damage in act 3.

You also have things like buffs and elixirs casters are not good unless you want to sit for hours and farm out elixirs and doing buffs. You get 1 6th tier spell slot and 2 5th tier spell slots. Since endgame damage from a caster is from upcasting spells like magic missiles or sorching ray you either wont be doing crazy damage or you wont doing many fights before you are back at camp again.

Something like a paladin or a bard while also being casters will do damage outside of using their spell slots and good damage at that not to mention paladin can just save its highest level for bosses to nuke them. Bard do not even use their spell slots for damage at all unless you are a bardadin bardic insipiration is on short rest.

My last run my carry was a shadowblade oathbreaker paladin without no spell slots used with no setup it was dealing 83 - 130 + damage just doing regular attacks 0 crits.

Look at the guy calling me a NOOB and his evo wizard dealing 100 damage x3 times in ONE turn and for ONE turn ONLY since he is hasted and has already burned his spell slots and his action surge. My paladin is dealing 200+ damage with 0 spell slots no haste no action surge no setup. Since it had sweet killer ring + Luck of the Far Realms with haste and setup it was dealing 500+ damage on it´s own as a half-orc oathbreaker paladin.

We have not even talked about something like open hand monk you can deal 90 + damage using ONE ki and you have 9 or 10 points that refresh on short reset on top of there being an item and a ability to refresh it as well. This is a class that gets to attack 4 times a turn as well.

[WinterSoldier]

Originally posted by lordmilier:

Originally posted by AmberWinter:

highly inaccurate, especially in the endgame.

While casters do have high dps in endgame you are not gone be able to bring more than one this is mostly due to the lack of caster gear making every item contested at endgame.

Can tell you this I had shotgun lock and light cleric in my first run my cleric was doing basically its act 2 damage in act 3. Next run light cleric is my only caster and since gear is not heavily contested it gets all the upgrades it can dream of in other words it is dealing way more damage in act 3.

You also have things like buffs and elixirs casters are not good unless you want to sit for hours and farm out elixirs and doing buffs. You get 1 6th tier spell slot and 2 5th tier spell slots. Since endgame damage from a caster is from upcasting spells like magic missiles or sorching ray you either wont be doing crazy damage or you wont doing many fights before you are back at camp again.

Something like a paladin or a bard while also being casters will do damage outside of using their spell slots and good damage at that not to mention paladin can just save its highest level for bosses to nuke them. Bard do not even use their spell slots for damage at all unless you are a bardadin bardic insipiration is on short rest.

My last run my carry was a shadowblade oathbreaker paladin without no spell slots used with no setup it was dealing 83 - 130 + damage just doing regular attacks 0 crits.

Look at the guy calling me a NOOB and his evo wizard dealing 100 damage x3 times in ONE turn and for ONE turn ONLY since he is hasted and has already burned his spell slots and his action surge. My paladin is dealing 200+ damage with 0 spell slots no haste no action surge no setup. Since it had sweet killer ring + Luck of the Far Realms with haste and setup it was dealing 500+ damage on it´s own as a half-orc oathbreaker paladin.

We have not even talked about something like open hand monk you can deal 90 + damage using ONE ki and you have 9 or 10 points that refresh on short reset on top of there being an item and a ability to refresh it as well. This is a class that gets to attack 4 times a turn as well.

Yeah i suppose i was more thinking of burst damage compared to sustained DPS, that was my bad. though nothing beats a paladin in that regard.
Im doing a Darkness/Bhaal armor team right now with shadowheart 2/10 bardadin and shars spear... shes casually doing 70 dmg normal attacks, and 200+ on crits with smite... per swing. Honestly the only caster that can really compete with that kind of damage is the 2/10 tempest sorcerer, so sad casters are so limited in items compared to martials.

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by AmberWinter:

Originally posted by lordmilier:

While casters do have high dps in endgame you are not gone be able to bring more than one this is mostly due to the lack of caster gear making every item contested at endgame.

Can tell you this I had shotgun lock and light cleric in my first run my cleric was doing basically its act 2 damage in act 3. Next run light cleric is my only caster and since gear is not heavily contested it gets all the upgrades it can dream of in other words it is dealing way more damage in act 3.

You also have things like buffs and elixirs casters are not good unless you want to sit for hours and farm out elixirs and doing buffs. You get 1 6th tier spell slot and 2 5th tier spell slots. Since endgame damage from a caster is from upcasting spells like magic missiles or sorching ray you either wont be doing crazy damage or you wont doing many fights before you are back at camp again.

Something like a paladin or a bard while also being casters will do damage outside of using their spell slots and good damage at that not to mention paladin can just save its highest level for bosses to nuke them. Bard do not even use their spell slots for damage at all unless you are a bardadin bardic insipiration is on short rest.

My last run my carry was a shadowblade oathbreaker paladin without no spell slots used with no setup it was dealing 83 - 130 + damage just doing regular attacks 0 crits.

Look at the guy calling me a NOOB and his evo wizard dealing 100 damage x3 times in ONE turn and for ONE turn ONLY since he is hasted and has already burned his spell slots and his action surge. My paladin is dealing 200+ damage with 0 spell slots no haste no action surge no setup. Since it had sweet killer ring + Luck of the Far Realms with haste and setup it was dealing 500+ damage on it´s own as a half-orc oathbreaker paladin.

We have not even talked about something like open hand monk you can deal 90 + damage using ONE ki and you have 9 or 10 points that refresh on short reset on top of there being an item and a ability to refresh it as well. This is a class that gets to attack 4 times a turn as well.

Yeah i suppose i was more thinking of burst damage compared to sustained DPS, that was my bad. though nothing beats a paladin in that regard.
Im doing a Darkness/Bhaal armor team right now with shadowheart 2/10 bardadin and shars spear... shes casually doing 70 dmg normal attacks, and 200+ on crits with smite... per swing. Honestly the only caster that can really compete with that kind of damage is the 2/10 tempest sorcerer, so sad casters are so limited in items compared to martials.

It is less that they are less items it is more that most melee damage needs less gear to start with and even missing gear you are just fine. Most casters missing items are in for a very bad time.

Then again casters outside of abusing damage riders are junk it is sad upcasting a tier 1 and 2 spell is the "end" for casters the actual tier 5 and 6 spells are only good when cast from a scroll as you can not upcast scroll spells, I guess something like chain lighting is not bad but the damage it deals based on the spell slot consumed is not balanced very well.

[RollerPig]

Originally posted by Kappa:

Honour mode feels overrated.
Yesterday we spent 5 mins making guesses about Balthazar legendary action.

We ended up getting a necrotic resistance elixir, freedom of movement, oils, etc… to tank a little more.

It went down in 1 round and half with 2 and 1/2 dps character.

it not THAT bad but I cant tell you a lot of people claiming they did honor runs are full of ♥♥♥♥ or used mods. Things can and DO go sideways and when they do it goes bad fast.

In act 2 I lost Isobel. that's NEVER happened in 4 previous play through. that is such a joke of a fight i don't even pre buff bless before triggering it.

I 1 shot the flaming fist guy and killed the cambien by the back door. I blocked the front door with shart. On there turn the 3 cambien "flew right past both shart and leazel (blocking 2 doors) and did NOT draw attacks of opportunity.

3 of them surrounded Isobel all with double attack. 2 of them crit for 28 dmg and they one shot her and boom. the entire last light in gone. All the vendors, , quests etc.

When it goes it goes fast and no "woopsie let me reload that"

On my first honor run I died on apostle of Myrkul fight because i did not prep for the "frightened" condition and leazel literally got 1 shot on the first round of combat (death gaze 68 dmg+ a crit AoE smite that dropped both leazel and Dame Ayln in the first turn.

I spent 6 more turns trying to res and stop the bleeding but 5 necromites made it to Myrkul and GG

[Ozius]

Originally posted by RollerPig:

Originally posted by Kappa:

Honour mode feels overrated.
Yesterday we spent 5 mins making guesses about Balthazar legendary action.

We ended up getting a necrotic resistance elixir, freedom of movement, oils, etc… to tank a little more.

It went down in 1 round and half with 2 and 1/2 dps character.

it not THAT bad but I cant tell you a lot of people claiming they did honor runs are full of ♥♥♥♥ or used mods. Things can and DO go sideways and when they do it goes bad fast.

In act 2 I lost Isobel. that's NEVER happened in 4 previous play through. that is such a joke of a fight i don't even pre buff bless before triggering it.

I 1 shot the flaming fist guy and killed the cambien by the back door. I blocked the front door with shart. On there turn the 3 cambien "flew right past both shart and leazel (blocking 2 doors) and did NOT draw attacks of opportunity.

3 of them surrounded Isobel all with double attack. 2 of them crit for 28 dmg and they one shot her and boom. the entire last light in gone. All the vendors, , quests etc.

When it goes it goes fast and no "woopsie let me reload that"

On my first honor run I died on apostle of Myrkul fight because i did not prep for the "frightened" condition and leazel literally got 1 shot on the first round of combat (death gaze 68 dmg+ a crit AoE smite that dropped both leazel and Dame Ayln in the first turn.

I spent 6 more turns trying to res and stop the bleeding but 5 necromites made it to Myrkul and GG

Yeah. Honour mode is terrifying when you know a tricky fight is coming up and you aren't cheesing the game. Most of the time things go okay but it only takes a bad round for things to turn to disaster.

Also, it's not just about the fights but also the fact there's no going back on bad dialogue choices or rolls, which means you are truly committed to your actions. I love it.

I party wiped my first Honour mode in the first fight with the bandits in the ruins as I failed to talk my way in, then decided I'd just jump down the hole and slaughter them all as I did in Tactician, the bandits had other ideas.

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by RollerPig:

Originally posted by Kappa:

Honour mode feels overrated.
Yesterday we spent 5 mins making guesses about Balthazar legendary action.

We ended up getting a necrotic resistance elixir, freedom of movement, oils, etc… to tank a little more.

It went down in 1 round and half with 2 and 1/2 dps character.

it not THAT bad but I cant tell you a lot of people claiming they did honor runs are full of ♥♥♥♥ or used mods. Things can and DO go sideways and when they do it goes bad fast.

In act 2 I lost Isobel. that's NEVER happened in 4 previous play through. that is such a joke of a fight i don't even pre buff bless before triggering it.

I 1 shot the flaming fist guy and killed the cambien by the back door. I blocked the front door with shart. On there turn the 3 cambien "flew right past both shart and leazel (blocking 2 doors) and did NOT draw attacks of opportunity.

3 of them surrounded Isobel all with double attack. 2 of them crit for 28 dmg and they one shot her and boom. the entire last light in gone. All the vendors, , quests etc.

When it goes it goes fast and no "woopsie let me reload that"

On my first honor run I died on apostle of Myrkul fight because i did not prep for the "frightened" condition and leazel literally got 1 shot on the first round of combat (death gaze 68 dmg+ a crit AoE smite that dropped both leazel and Dame Ayln in the first turn.

I spent 6 more turns trying to res and stop the bleeding but 5 necromites made it to Myrkul and GG

Sort of shocked you died on Myrkul and not on Grym on your first honour mode run he is one of scariest bosses in the game due to him being a level 10 boss in a act you at most will be level 8 in. Not to mention he has a mechanic you can not really skip.

[DeMasked]

Originally posted by Ozius:

I party wiped my first Honour mode in the first fight with the bandits in the ruins as I failed to talk my way in, then decided I'd just jump down the hole and slaughter them all as I did in Tactician, the bandits had other ideas.

Lol yea that's what happened to my run after failing to get through the door. Thankfully I managed to beat them with that oil barrel. So far the closest I've come to losing is that silly boat fight where I'm greedy to get the items / exp but both Lae'zel and Shadowheart took a dip in the water + I didn't get the fear bow that I wanted ;(

[TheClosetSkeleton]

MMM build on evocation wiz. 9wiz/3sorc, Can virtually kill anything that isn't immune the thunder in max two turn. Multitarget for spread prone, or single target for garanteed death

[RollerPig]

Originally posted by lordmilier:

Originally posted by RollerPig:

it not THAT bad but I cant tell you a lot of people claiming they did honor runs are full of ♥♥♥♥ or used mods. Things can and DO go sideways and when they do it goes bad fast.

In act 2 I lost Isobel. that's NEVER happened in 4 previous play through. that is such a joke of a fight i don't even pre buff bless before triggering it.

I 1 shot the flaming fist guy and killed the cambien by the back door. I blocked the front door with shart. On there turn the 3 cambien "flew right past both shart and leazel (blocking 2 doors) and did NOT draw attacks of opportunity.

3 of them surrounded Isobel all with double attack. 2 of them crit for 28 dmg and they one shot her and boom. the entire last light in gone. All the vendors, , quests etc.

When it goes it goes fast and no "woopsie let me reload that"

On my first honor run I died on apostle of Myrkul fight because i did not prep for the "frightened" condition and leazel literally got 1 shot on the first round of combat (death gaze 68 dmg+ a crit AoE smite that dropped both leazel and Dame Ayln in the first turn.

I spent 6 more turns trying to res and stop the bleeding but 5 necromites made it to Myrkul and GG

Sort of shocked you died on Myrkul and not on Grym on your first honour mode run he is one of scariest bosses in the game due to him being a level 10 boss in a act you at most will be level 8 in. Not to mention he has a mechanic you can not really skip.

Grym is a gimmick fight. I've only fought that one time, straight up on tactition.

I would NEVER do that fight straight on honor mode...its too glitchy. sometimes hes like 1 frame off the hammer and it doesnt hit

I almost died to the owl bears that pancaked leazel and downed Karlach with double attack.

Scary fight at level 3. A lot of act 1 is dicey. I NEVER do hag before level 5.

Usually i do entire creche and underdark and then come back for her at level 6 then its pretty ez fight

[lordmilier]

Owlbears is a very safe at level 4 lots of the bosses on top are apart from Hag like you mentioned. I think that gnoll with the parasite whatever it is called is way scarier than Owlbears not to mention if you cast slice on the mamma owlbear it wont call the other one.

[DeMasked]

Originally posted by lordmilier:

Owlbears is a very safe at level 4 lots of the bosses on top are apart from Hag like you mentioned. I think that gnoll with the parasite whatever it is called is way scarier than Owlbears not to mention if you cast slice on the mamma owlbear it wont call the other one.

Flint the Gnoll Warlord is just used barrelmancy by having someone with alert start that fight while everyone else was away and in stealth.

Owl Bears are easy if you get the 2 allies to join in with you. Silence would definitely make that fight easy like the Harpies - though you'd lose out on some exp I guess.

Grym you can just cheese and Hag fight you just throw a potion of poison resistance onto all your 4 characters to make that fight easier.

[Hermóðr]

You will never be able to deal as much damage with a Wizard as with a Sorcerer, that's the thing. Wizard got more spells available so Sorcerer needs to be better at the thing they do which is damage in combat, otherwise Sorcerer would be obsolete and there wouldn't be a point choosing it over Wizard.

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by DeMasked:

Originally posted by lordmilier:

Owlbears is a very safe at level 4 lots of the bosses on top are apart from Hag like you mentioned. I think that gnoll with the parasite whatever it is called is way scarier than Owlbears not to mention if you cast slice on the mamma owlbear it wont call the other one.

Flint the Gnoll Warlord is just used barrelmancy by having someone with alert start that fight while everyone else was away and in stealth.

Owl Bears are easy if you get the 2 allies to join in with you. Silence would definitely make that fight easy like the Harpies - though you'd lose out on some exp I guess.

Grym you can just cheese and Hag fight you just throw a potion of poison resistance onto all your 4 characters to make that fight easier.

So you cheese all the fights in the game? Only fight I have cheesed so far is Grym due to almost wiping my party in my first honour mode run.

I personally do not use barrels and I do not use sneak attacks either game dose not really require any of that. Also if you gone start talking about bringing people to cheese to fight just go get the horn that summons x3 level 4 Ogres I have never used it apart from when I am finished with the act to kill the main guy for the 17 int headband.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by AmberWinter:

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

No. Casters are strictly inferior to martials when it comes to pure DPS.

highly inaccurate, especially in the endgame.

Show me a caster finishing the game solo in Honour Mode with as much ease as a martial, then.