good (honor mode)Wizard endgame build that can match damage of throwers, ranged bard or sorcadin

[RollerPig]

does this exist?

[lordmilier]

No matter what you do on a wizard you will end up being a worse sorc. Otherwise I am sure you can come close to a throw build by act 3 since throw builds do not scale as well in endgame.

As for sorcadin is more a control type paladin because it banks on you using minstrel ring to cast CC on mobs and the damage itself is whatever only nice thing about it is the amount of spellslots. Playing either shadowblade Oathbreaker or a bardadin blows it out of the water in terms of damage especially in endgame.

[Tanner_Lindberg]

Just play magic missile with haste pots and 2 levels fighter for action surge. Easily deals 100 dmg per cast of mm in honor can cast 3 times turn one. Run 4 builds at that power level end all fights turn 1 so you can re short rest to re get action surge.

[Tanner_Lindberg]

Originally posted by lordmilier:

No matter what you do on a wizard you will end up being a worse sorc. Otherwise I am sure you can come close to a throw build by act 3 since throw builds do not scale as well in endgame.

As for sorcadin is more a control type paladin because it banks on you using minstrel ring to cast CC on mobs and the damage itself is whatever only nice thing about it is the amount of spellslots. Playing either shadowblade Oathbreaker or a bardadin blows it out of the water in terms of damage especially in endgame.

Honor mode noob found. Throw builds are GARBAGE in honor since tavern brawler doesn't double dip. So unless you do some kind of cheese to one shot things throw builds suck giga ♥♥♥♥ in honor compared to like basic meta bard or sorc.

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by Tanner_Lindberg:

Originally posted by lordmilier:

No matter what you do on a wizard you will end up being a worse sorc. Otherwise I am sure you can come close to a throw build by act 3 since throw builds do not scale as well in endgame.

As for sorcadin is more a control type paladin because it banks on you using minstrel ring to cast CC on mobs and the damage itself is whatever only nice thing about it is the amount of spellslots. Playing either shadowblade Oathbreaker or a bardadin blows it out of the water in terms of damage especially in endgame.

Honor mode noob found. Throw builds are GARBAGE in honor since tavern brawler doesn't double dip. So unless you do some kind of cheese to one shot things throw builds suck giga ♥♥♥♥ in honor compared to like basic meta bard or sorc.

What the hell are you on about? tavern brawler builds are the strongest early game builds in the game in honour mode bar none. I even said they scaled poorly in endgame you blind or something? Sorc comes online much later in the game than any tavern brawler build dose not to mention for bard you at least want Diadem of Arcane Synergy which basically end of act 1 for bard to start mattering. Only person showing that their a noob here is you totally clueless in the art of reading what is being written.

[RollerPig]

Originally posted by lordmilier:

Originally posted by Tanner_Lindberg:

Honor mode noob found. Throw builds are GARBAGE in honor since tavern brawler doesn't double dip. So unless you do some kind of cheese to one shot things throw builds suck giga ♥♥♥♥ in honor compared to like basic meta bard or sorc.

What the hell are you on about? tavern brawler builds are the strongest early game builds in the game in honour mode bar none. I even said they scaled poorly in endgame you blind or something? Sorc comes online much later in the game than any tavern brawler build dose not to mention for bard you at least want Diadem of Arcane Synergy which basically end of act 1 for bard to start mattering. Only person showing that their a noob here is you totally clueless in the art of reading what is being written.

I agree here. The reason I choose thrower is bounded accuracy (to hit) it rocks 90+% all game. that's some seriously consistent damage. it does fall off a bit endgame but my eldritch knight thrower can throw 3 times averaging about 32 dmg per throw, action surge + 3 and 1 level dip in war cleric + 3 attacks in first round un hasted. that's around 290 damage on first round (pretty damn good if you ask me)

yes, on longer fights a sorcadin or bardadin will out damage but Nova damage is king in honor mode especially with a 95% chance to hit and it is has VERY low gear dependency.

the other classes will stumble most of the game until they get +4 attack rolls from gear. Dont get me wrong, sorcadin is my favorite build as it can handle any situation. (counter spell, sheild, hold person, bless, heroism etc.) but throwers are still VERY good all game

Anyways i dont know of any caster build that can lay out that kind of damage...maybe hasted sorlock but def not a wizard build.

open to suggestions though

[Orion Invictus]

No. Casters are strictly inferior to martials when it comes to pure DPS.

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by RollerPig:

Originally posted by lordmilier:

What the hell are you on about? tavern brawler builds are the strongest early game builds in the game in honour mode bar none. I even said they scaled poorly in endgame you blind or something? Sorc comes online much later in the game than any tavern brawler build dose not to mention for bard you at least want Diadem of Arcane Synergy which basically end of act 1 for bard to start mattering. Only person showing that their a noob here is you totally clueless in the art of reading what is being written.

I agree here. The reason I choose thrower is bounded accuracy (to hit) it rocks 90+% all game. that's some seriously consistent damage. it does fall off a bit endgame but my eldritch knight thrower can throw 3 times averaging about 32 dmg per throw action surge + 3 and 1 level dip in war cleric + 3 attacks in first round un hasted. thats around 290 damage on first round (pretty damn good if you ask me)

yes on longer fights a sorcadin or bardadin will out damage but Nova damage is king in honor mode especially with a 95% chance to hit and it is has VERY low gear dependency.

Going 5 zerker 4 champion and 3 theif is stronger than going 11 EK and 1 war cleric if you plan on running a thrower all the way to endgame. The reason is simple Enraged Throw has no save target needs to be immune to prone for the prone to fail it also deals damage and with rogue you can use it twice on 2nd turn and 1 on first. Not to mention going 3 into rogue gives you a godlike level of on demand movement whenever you require it good example is Iron Throne.

The issue with going EK is that you have no utility and you wont be doing more damage not to mention when you fenzy it is for the whole fight. In my last run I had a normal GWM BM fighter that I went 11/1 on worked great but it can unlike a EK thrower it can add CC and dmage with the manouvers + it deals more damage when you are already in endgame gear.

[RollerPig]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

No. Casters are strictly inferior to martials when it comes to pure DPS.

I kinda knew this. I bugged out last night because i lost Astarion in the Cazador fight by accident. He was my ranged bard. when he died i lost the gloves of dex, sword of the mountain king, crit cloak ect. I figured id carry on ith Gale.

I just decided to respecc him as the killer ranged bard. I still had risky ring, 2 hand crossbows and duelist perogative. I went and killed Sarevok grabbed his helm and bought the light armor for aura of murder...honestly probably better overall gear.

All I really lost was 1 feat for 18 dex instead of gloves

[RollerPig]

Originally posted by lordmilier:

Originally posted by RollerPig:

I agree here. The reason I choose thrower is bounded accuracy (to hit) it rocks 90+% all game. that's some seriously consistent damage. it does fall off a bit endgame but my eldritch knight thrower can throw 3 times averaging about 32 dmg per throw action surge + 3 and 1 level dip in war cleric + 3 attacks in first round un hasted. thats around 290 damage on first round (pretty damn good if you ask me)

yes on longer fights a sorcadin or bardadin will out damage but Nova damage is king in honor mode especially with a 95% chance to hit and it is has VERY low gear dependency.

Going 5 zerker 4 champion and 3 theif is stronger than going 11 EK and 1 war cleric if you plan on running a thrower all the way to endgame. The reason is simple Enraged Throw has no save target needs to be immune to prone for the prone to fail it also deals damage and with rogue you can use it twice on 2nd turn and 1 on first. Not to mention going 3 into rogue gives you a godlike level of on demand movement whenever you require it good example is Iron Throne.

The issue with going EK is that you have no utility and you wont be doing more damage not to mention when you fenzy it is for the whole fight. In my last run I had a normal GWM BM fighter that I went 11/1 on worked great but it can unlike a EK thrower it can add CC and dmage with the manouvers + it deals more damage when you are already in endgame gear.

its a trade off. I got one more feat and took tough so fully buffed have around 180 hp, +7 to saving throws. Also I use disguise self for bonus to throwing hammer (+1d6)(+1d6 vs large,huge or gargantuan) it also gives me sanctuary and another bless in party. I have shart specced as 11 circle of land druid + 1 wizard for controller/AoE nuker/tank and all the wizard utility spells in game. even with an effective int of 16 with circlet + Markoheshkir her AoE still slams and spreads radiating orb but no bless , no sanctuary

I usually play karlack as the frenzied thrower and yes the EK is totally 1 dimensional and does nothing but throw

also everyone in my party has eaten space gummies so we ALL have flight making bonus action dash a bit less powerful. This is my Tav and played open hand/thrower until level 11 then respecced

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by RollerPig:

Originally posted by lordmilier:

Going 5 zerker 4 champion and 3 theif is stronger than going 11 EK and 1 war cleric if you plan on running a thrower all the way to endgame. The reason is simple Enraged Throw has no save target needs to be immune to prone for the prone to fail it also deals damage and with rogue you can use it twice on 2nd turn and 1 on first. Not to mention going 3 into rogue gives you a godlike level of on demand movement whenever you require it good example is Iron Throne.

The issue with going EK is that you have no utility and you wont be doing more damage not to mention when you fenzy it is for the whole fight. In my last run I had a normal GWM BM fighter that I went 11/1 on worked great but it can unlike a EK thrower it can add CC and dmage with the manouvers + it deals more damage when you are already in endgame gear.

its a trade off. I got one more feat and took tough so fully buffed have around 180 hp, +7 to saving throws. Also I use disguise self for bonus to throwing hammer (+1d6)(+1d6 vs large,huge or gargantuan) it also gives me sanctuary and another bless in party. I have shart specced as 11 circle of land druid + 1 wizard for controller/AoE nuker/tank and all the wizard utilityspells in game. even with an effective int of 16 her with circlet + Markoheshkir her AoE still slams and spreads radiating orb

I usually play karlack as the frenzied thrower and yes the EK is totally 1 dimensional and does nothing but throw

I own the DLC so I never care much for the ability to disguise self for the bonus to throwing hammer since I have the DLC helm for it so sadly it never crossed my mind. Also bless is sort of useless by act 3 it has bigger impact if you dip into cleric early on.

[lordmilier]

Originally posted by RollerPig:

also everyone in my party has eaten space gummies so we ALL have flight making bonus action dash a bit less powerful. This is my Tav and played open hand/thrower until level 11 then respecced

No you do not understand how dash works dash increases amount of movement you get if you can fly this increases how far you can fly as well. The only thing that fly gives you is efficient movement. This also helps a ton in a fight like the final fight atop of the Neitherbrain.

[alanc9]

I don't know about anyone else, but reading threads like this makes me want to never even attempt Honour Mode.

[AmberWinter]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

No. Casters are strictly inferior to martials when it comes to pure DPS.

highly inaccurate, especially in the endgame.

[RollerPig]

Originally posted by lordmilier:

Originally posted by RollerPig:

also everyone in my party has eaten space gummies so we ALL have flight making bonus action dash a bit less powerful. This is my Tav and played open hand/thrower until level 11 then respecced

No you do not understand how dash works dash increases amount of movement you get if you can fly this increases how far you can fly as well. The only thing that fly gives you is efficient movement. This also helps a ton in a fight like the final fight atop of the Neitherbrain.

no i get it but imho throwers are rarely front liners. shoot and scoot. like I said i played unarmored open hand monk until level 11. i definitely understand the power of mobility its just not as relevant when you have long strider and fly. I mean i dont need to fly back to act 2 so its kind of overkill.

Anyways.this is my 5th play through but first successful act 3 honor run. im stomping everything. I always try to look at overall balance, team comp, "to hit" is HUGE esp in honor. number go up isnt always the best option

EK has 22 a/c ,sheild spell as reaction and can pre buff with mirror image, its pretty crazy> i was incorrect.. 172 hp buffed +7 con saving throws + 8 str without elixirs. not super worried if I get attacked a few times

[Kappa]

Honour mode feels overrated.
Yesterday we spent 5 mins making guesses about Balthazar legendary action.

We ended up getting a necrotic resistance elixir, freedom of movement, oils, etc… to tank a little more.

It went down in 1 round and half with 2 and 1/2 dps character.