BG3 isn't woke.

[Ellie]

It's not, I'm sorry. Having gay characters, or leaving open the boundaries of gender in a fantasy game, is not inherently woke. Woke-ism is the forceful use of gender politics at the cost of quality.

BG3 just happens to allow for gay pairings to happen (as they do in reality), allows for a gender/sex mismatch (which exists in reality) and presents strong female personalities (which also do exist in reality.) There's still no shortage of straight and strong male characters, and even though the character creator allows for it, none of the ingame characters you meet are trans (unlike, for example, Hogwarts Legacy approached it.)

The quality of the writing, the immersiveness of the World, none of this suffers at the game allowing the maximum number of people to imagine themselves as part of the Swordcoast.

A woke game would have all straight-white-male villains and gay-poc-whatever protagonists. That's the message, that's the woke narrative. BG3 has amazing women, and really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ones, and amazing guys, and really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ones.

In BG3, if you only know the identity features of a character, you won't be able to infer what side they are on. (And even what the sides are isn't really obvious.) Because it's not a woke game.

If anything, BG3 is in the same category of Arcane. They remove Christian identity politics (men as the inherent leaders, nobody allowed who isn't straight, white superiority, etc.) and instead mix things up. That doesn't make it woke, it's just not the right-wing version of woke.

There is a lot of media that's woke these days, but people got their circuits fried by political YouTube videos if they think BG3 is anything like that.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by iTemperence:

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Honestly I disagree majorly about Zenos, he was a majorly overblown antagonist and his arrogance and wanting to fight you above everything else really damaged the tone of Stormblood for me, which was otherwise stellar. I've never been a big fan of stories where a villain essentially sabotages the goals of their side to hand you a victory because they were just that desperate to cross swords with you, or any other arrogant reason - it makes the actual accomplishment of victory feel much more theirs than yours, and when the actual point of Stormblood was revolution against a bloody colonizing fascist state, that hit in a way that sucked to me.

Honestly I was hoping that in his last fight (in Endwalker) we would unceremoniously one-hit-kill him in a cutscene just to drive home how far past him we'd advanced as a character while he had been stagnating in his hatred and his lone drive and obsession. I get that the last fight was very satisfying for a lot of people, but it was giving a lot of respect to him I didn't feel had ever been earned.

Yep, I get that. Totally makes sense.

I think they were leaning into some older tropes, missed the mark on some of them for folks maybe. Still, for what it was, and for all the characters we're exposed to from the Garlean Empire, I guess maybe his goals and dialogue resonated with me the most. And my perspective is just as colored by my experiences are yours is by your experiences, perhaps I just see him differently and that's some internalized toxicity on my part ingrained in me to admire those traits since I was a small girl.

It's something to think about.

Nah, I'm not trying to deride how you experienced it or anything or claim that it's toxic to enjoy Zenos, I'm just expressing how I felt about it when I experienced it. Ultimately I know a lot of what we got from him was due to fan response, so I'm probably in the minority.

But yeah, as much as I get other people enjoying him, I was very glad when Endwalker finally signalled it was time to move on.

[cheebus weebus]

Originally posted by Clockwork:

Haven't we had enough of these threads already? You're one of the biggest *hit-posters on the forums.

say that to those keep posting about how the game is bad cos wokeness

[seeker1]

Originally posted by Tanist:

Everything you have been taught about these key hot points in history is a lie and the bulk of your professors in the education systems are just programmed dupes with broken and manipulated historical accounts without proper validation being pushed by activists who have no interest in history, but rather effecting change in the society for a political goal.

This is very amusing coming from you, Lord of the Protocols.

Perhaps we can discuss this more after you are back from your ban.

[Ellie]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Tanist:

A Paladin who does not follow their tenants

Unless it's an Oath of Landlords Paladin I think someone meant tenets

You shall not return security deposits
You shall not suffer pets on your property
You shall start breaking fingers if your rent is late

So sayeth the oath of landlords.

With regards to an earlier comment about Dame Aylin, I hadn't even considered that anyone could be annoyed by one of the coolest characters in the game, but, I guess it's difficult to predict what triggers people these days.

[Ellie]

Originally posted by User-315-708:

Originally posted by Lizzy:

Woke-ism is the forceful use of gender politics at the cost of quality.

Exactly what happened with Baldur's Gayte 3.

Also, if it's not 'woke,' why did you even feel the need to create this thread? Probably because a LOT of people think it is 'woke.' And sure, all these people are wrong, and you are right.

Makes total sense!

A lot of people also think the Earth is flat. A lot of people think a lot of wrong stuff.

So yes, "all these people are wrong, and you are right", that's precisely right.

[Xrystus]

Originally posted by Lizzy:

Originally posted by Xrystus:

Except for half the gnomes being gay...

1. There's one, count it, one gay couple among the gnomes.

Beldron and Lunkbug are the ones thrown in your face.
Laridda and Philomeen are lovers, though Philomeen wants to break it off.
If you look into Barcus, through his journals and if you use Speak with Dead, you will find out that he was in a relationship with Wulbren - not just childhood friends.

So that's 6 out of ~9 gnomes in act 1 that are homosexual.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by Xrystus:

Originally posted by Lizzy:

1. There's one, count it, one gay couple among the gnomes.

Beldron and Lunkbug are the ones thrown in your face.
Laridda and Philomeen are lovers, though Philomeen wants to break it off.
If you look into Barcus, through his journals and if you use Speak with Dead, you will find out that he was in a relationship with Wulbren - not just childhood friends.

So that's 6 out of ~9 gnomes in act 1 that are homosexual.

Genuinely who gives a ♥♥♥♥ though? They're gnome NPCs.

You have to gesture to a handful of gnomes to even pretend to have a point.

[seeker1]

Originally posted by Xrystus:

If you look into Barcus, through his journals and if you use Speak with Dead, you will find out that he was in a relationship with Wulbren - not just childhood friends.

I'm sorry. People often claim to see things in this game I've never seen. Can you describe these journals or how Speaking with Dead shows any of this? Reason I say is I've looked at Barcus' Speak with Dead dialogue and I don't see any of it.

All his Speak with Dead dialogue are here ... you are getting a lot of traction out of the word "my" I guess?
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Barcus_Wroot

This is his journal.
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Barcus%27_Log

Mostly talks about finding him and needing to talk to his mother.

Where is this "other" kind of relationship you're speaking of. Genuinely curious.

[Altimely]

Originally posted by Xrystus:

Originally posted by Lizzy:

1. There's one, count it, one gay couple among the gnomes.

Beldron and Lunkbug are the ones thrown in your face.
Laridda and Philomeen are lovers, though Philomeen wants to break it off.
If you look into Barcus, through his journals and if you use Speak with Dead, you will find out that he was in a relationship with Wulbren - not just childhood friends.

So that's 6 out of ~9 gnomes in act 1 that are homosexual.

Watching you lot obsessively count the gay content and then claim that it's "thrown in your face" is pretty funny.

[iTemperence]

Originally posted by seeker1:

Originally posted by Xrystus:

If you look into Barcus, through his journals and if you use Speak with Dead, you will find out that he was in a relationship with Wulbren - not just childhood friends.

I'm sorry. People often claim to see things in this game I've never seen. Can you describe these journals or how Speaking with Dead shows any of this? Reason I say is I've looked at Barcus' Speak with Dead dialogue and I don't see any of it.

All his Speak with Dead dialogue are here ... you are getting a lot of traction out of the word "my" I guess?
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Barcus_Wroot

This is his journal.
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Barcus%27_Log

Mostly talks about finding him and needing to talk to his mother.

Where is this "other" kind of relationship you're speaking of. Genuinely curious.

Definitely getting way more out of that "my" than is actually there. Every time you talk to him, that "my" is followed by "friend". I never read it as homoerotic, at all, and sugah, I *look* for that ♥♥♥♥.

No, he's the kid that got left behind when his best friend got popular and moved on. I felt terrible for how he was treated, and I quite literally cheered out loud at the end of his story with the way my choices with him played out. 100% will do it the same way, every time, I'm team Barcus.

And no, Barcus isn't gay. If you see it, you're squinting harder than my -6.0 without lenses.

[Xrystus]

Originally posted by Altimely:

Originally posted by Xrystus:

Beldron and Lunkbug are the ones thrown in your face.
Laridda and Philomeen are lovers, though Philomeen wants to break it off.
If you look into Barcus, through his journals and if you use Speak with Dead, you will find out that he was in a relationship with Wulbren - not just childhood friends.

So that's 6 out of ~9 gnomes in act 1 that are homosexual.

Watching you lot obsessively count the gay content and then claim that it's "thrown in your face" is pretty funny.

P1 - "There is a ton of gay stuff in the game."
P2 - "Nuh uh I don't see it, you'll have to prove it!"
P1 - "Fine, it's shown here, here, and here."
P2 - "YoU sEeM a LiTtLe ObsEsSeD!"

So if I tossed a rock at your face, and you said it hurts... are you just being obsessed about rocks and pain?

[seeker1]

4 out of 9 I'll give you. 6 out of 9 ... well I think you're pulling from your ass about the other 2... I'd like to see any evidence for your claims there.

[Altimely]

Originally posted by Xrystus:

Originally posted by Altimely:

Watching you lot obsessively count the gay content and then claim that it's "thrown in your face" is pretty funny.

P1 - "There is a ton of gay stuff in the game."
P2 - "Nuh uh I don't see it, you'll have to prove it!"
P1 - "Fine, it's shown here, here, and here."
P2 - "YoU sEeM a LiTtLe ObsEsSeD!"

So if I tossed a rock at your face, and you said it hurts... are you just being obsessed about rocks and pain?

In this analogy, you're the one paying to walk outside and count the rocks to throw at your own face and blaming the outdoors for putting the rocks there.

[Xrystus]

Originally posted by iTemperence:

Originally posted by seeker1:

I'm sorry. People often claim to see things in this game I've never seen. Can you describe these journals or how Speaking with Dead shows any of this? Reason I say is I've looked at Barcus' Speak with Dead dialogue and I don't see any of it.

All his Speak with Dead dialogue are here ... you are getting a lot of traction out of the word "my" I guess?
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Barcus_Wroot

This is his journal.
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Barcus%27_Log

Mostly talks about finding him and needing to talk to his mother.

Where is this "other" kind of relationship you're speaking of. Genuinely curious.

Definitely getting way more out of that "my" than is actually there. Every time you talk to him, that "my" is followed by "friend". I never read it as homoerotic, at all, and sugah, I *look* for that ♥♥♥♥.

No, he's the kid that got left behind when his best friend got popular and moved on. I felt terrible for how he was treated, and I quite literally cheered out loud at the end of his story with the way my choices with him played out. 100% will do it the same way, every time, I'm team Barcus.

And no, Barcus isn't gay. If you see it, you're squinting harder than my -6.0 without lenses.

Speak with dead:
"Player: Who are you?

Barcus Wroot: Barcus... he... called... me... Barcus..."
"Player: What were you doing here?

Barcus Wroot: Find... him...
Player: Who are you looking for?
Barcus Wroot: Wulbren... my... Wulbren...
Player: Why do you need to find this Wulbren?
Barcus Wroot: Flame... in... the... dark... his amulet... found... bloodied..."

Maybe you haven't squinted hard enough. When have you ever called a non-romantic friend "my flame"? An "old flame" is a previous relationship.

[Xrystus]

Originally posted by Altimely:

Originally posted by Xrystus:

P1 - "There is a ton of gay stuff in the game."
P2 - "Nuh uh I don't see it, you'll have to prove it!"
P1 - "Fine, it's shown here, here, and here."
P2 - "YoU sEeM a LiTtLe ObsEsSeD!"

So if I tossed a rock at your face, and you said it hurts... are you just being obsessed about rocks and pain?

In this analogy, you're the one paying to walk outside and count the rocks to throw at your own face and blaming the outdoors for putting the rocks there.

You seem a little obsessed about rocks.