Slings

[Clovis Sangrail]

Have there ever been, or are there ever going to be slings in this game?

I have seen references in a wiki to druids having proficiency in slings , but this doesn't show up in the game.

And there were slings in BG1 and BG2.

My human druid wants one because he has no proficiency in a ranged weapon.

I know I could make an elf druid and get bow proficiency, but slings are so druidy.

(And halflings like them, too.)

[wtiger27]

Slings are ranged weapons. And not seen or read any info of them being in the game. Spears and bows, cross bows, throwing knives I think is all that I remember. A ranged weapon in the game can also be anything your char can throw. Like a rock.

[Yojo0o]

I'm guessing that they'll be implemented in 1.0. They're not a popular weapon choice.

You'd be better off with an offensive spell cantrip to give your druid a ranged attack option than a sling.

[Clovis Sangrail]

I know there are other options --

I can make a wood elf druid who will have proficiency in long bows and short bows, plus long swords and short swords.

I can make a high elf druid who will have the same weapon proficiencies as a wood elf druid, plus a kick-ass fire bolt cantrip.

But after playing a lot of BG1 and BG2, druids with bows and longswords just seem so un-druidy.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I would hope so. We also need the Magic Stone cantrip.

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

I know there are other options --

I can make a wood elf druid who will have proficiency in long bows and short bows, plus long swords and short swords.

I can make a high elf druid who will have the same weapon proficiencies as a wood elf druid, plus a kick-ass fire bolt cantrip.

But after playing a lot of BG1 and BG2, druids with bows and longswords just seem so un-druidy.

That's not what I meant. As a druid of any race, you can learn Produce Flame or Thorn Whip as a ranged offensive cantrip. You don't need special racial proficiencies or cantrips for this to work.

Unlike the 2e rules of BG 1-2, BG3's 5e rules generally expect casters to make use of cantrip attacks, rather than weapon attacks, when they aren't using their spell slots.

[Dragon Master]

I know slings were necessary in BG1 and 2 for casters who ran out of spell slots, but cantrips removes all need for them for the casters.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Dragon Master:

I know slings were necessary in BG1 and 2 for casters who ran out of spell slots, but cantrips removes all need for them for the casters.

Which I'm always kinda torn on: mechanically it is fun to cast more actual spells as a wizard.

But also it takes away from the 'specialness' of magic a little and makes the setting higher in magic

[Clovis Sangrail]

I'm not too impressed with Thorn Whip. It lacks the range and the punch of Fire Bolt.

I haven't tried Produce Flame. I think I just took the default cantrips at character creation, so I have Thorn Whip and Shillelagh. Is there any way to change those?

But there nothing like the satisfaction of coming up side someone's head with a finely polished rock, so I do hope slings make it in.

Meanwhile, for this play through, he's got a crossbow. With 16 DEX, it's not too shabby, and Dammon in Druid's Grove has a Light Crossbow +1 for sale.

Also, he spends a lot of time as Mister Bear, who can't use a bow or a sling anyway.

[Yojo0o]

I don't think BG3 has a way to change cantrips, they were permanent picks until later supplemental material in 5e allowed for some swapping.

You'll definitely want something like Produce Flame in 1.0, because cantrips scale up at level 5 and then again at level 11 and 17. A druid's weapon skills never really get any better, especially since you'll be more likely to invest ability scores into wisdom rather than more dexterity. Crossbows or slings, neither will compete with 2d8 fire damage at level 5+, especially since you can use a shield this way.

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

I'm not too impressed with Thorn Whip. It lacks the range and the punch of Fire Bolt.

Then you will be even more disappointed with a sling. Slings do 1d4+Dex in 5e which is technically better average damage than thorn whip equal to firebolt with a 14 or greater Dex, druids never get a second attack like martial classes whereas cantrips scale with level. So at level 5, a sling druid would deal 1d4+dex for an average damage per round of 2.5+dec (so 4.5 with 14 or 15 dex, 5.5 with 16 dex) vs 2d6 damage with thorn whip which averages 7 damage. Produce flame would be even better averaging 9 damage at level 5 (2d8). And then in order to get the most out of a sling, you need to put attribute points in dex, but every point in dex is a point not in wisdom which means your casting will not be as effective than it would if you just focused on wisdom. And since druids are casters, this seems pretty important (note: Moon druids it is less important since they will be wild shaped in combat more often but then their physical stats change to that of their form making their dex even less relevant than for a caster focused druid).

We *SHOULD* be able to have slings, but using them on any class for any reason other than story/fantasy/flavor is an objectively bad choice (especially in a game where ammo isn't tracked and weapons effectively have infinite ammo, and the game doesn't allow for things like using a sling to throw a rock into a bush on the far side of an enemy camp as a distraction).

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

I'm not too impressed with Thorn Whip. It lacks the range and the punch of Fire Bolt.

I haven't tried Produce Flame. I think I just took the default cantrips at character creation, so I have Thorn Whip and Shillelagh. Is there any way to change those?

But there nothing like the satisfaction of coming up side someone's head with a finely polished rock, so I do hope slings make it in.

Meanwhile, for this play through, he's got a crossbow. With 16 DEX, it's not too shabby, and Dammon in Druid's Grove has a Light Crossbow +1 for sale.

Also, he spends a lot of time as Mister Bear, who can't use a bow or a sling anyway.

Thorn Whip is about it's utility - you can drag enemies off cliffs for fall damage, or through Spike Growth (and then Push/Thunderwave/EB them back) for additional damage. You can also use it to move an enemy away from another character so they don't provoke an attack of opportunity.

Produce Flame doesn't deal as much damage as Firebolt, but it lasts for 100 rounds (they really ought to make it permanent until dispelled) and doubles as a torch if you need one, as well as a means of igniting objects.

My issue with Shillelagh is that I'm almost always going to be using a concentration based spell action for my damage output, such as Moonbeam or Call Lightning, or Wildshaping. It's not a terrible cantrip, but the others have better utility. Also, I tend to play Druids with longbow proficiency, so if I need to make a weapon attack, I typically have a good ranged weapon anyway (Moonbeam/Stealth/Bow is a great combination, or Call Lightning/Stealth/Bow). Equip say Spellthief and you can get extra Thunderwaves or Create Waters back.

[Clovis Sangrail]

Oh, I won't wait until release. EA is a time to learn, so I'll re-create him today, and I'll change the cantrips.

I have already created about a dozen race/class combinations. I create them, then play them until I get to Druid Grove just to see how they are going to work for me. I'll make a new druid with those two cantrips.

I thought I might use Shilegah, but it turned out that any time I was close enough for that, I was already in Mister Bear form.

Thanks, everyone.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

Oh, I won't wait until release. EA is a time to learn, so I'll re-create him today, and I'll change the cantrips.

I have already created about a dozen race/class combinations. I create them, then play them until I get to Druid Grove just to see how they are going to work for me. I'll make a new druid with those two cantrips.

I thought I might use Shilegah, but it turned out that any time I was close enough for that, I was already in Mister Bear form.

Thanks, everyone.

This is the wei.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Originally posted by Clovis Sangrail:

I'm not too impressed with Thorn Whip. It lacks the range and the punch of Fire Bolt.

Then you will be even more disappointed with a sling. Slings do 1d4+Dex in 5e which is technically better average damage than thorn whip equal to firebolt with a 14 or greater Dex, druids never get a second attack like martial classes whereas cantrips scale with level. So at level 5, a sling druid would deal 1d4+dex for an average damage per round of 2.5+dec (so 4.5 with 14 or 15 dex, 5.5 with 16 dex) vs 2d6 damage with thorn whip which averages 7 damage. Produce flame would be even better averaging 9 damage at level 5 (2d8). And then in order to get the most out of a sling, you need to put attribute points in dex, but every point in dex is a point not in wisdom which means your casting will not be as effective than it would if you just focused on wisdom. And since druids are casters, this seems pretty important (note: Moon druids it is less important since they will be wild shaped in combat more often but then their physical stats change to that of their form making their dex even less relevant than for a caster focused druid).

We *SHOULD* be able to have slings, but using them on any class for any reason other than story/fantasy/flavor is an objectively bad choice (especially in a game where ammo isn't tracked and weapons effectively have infinite ammo, and the game doesn't allow for things like using a sling to throw a rock into a bush on the far side of an enemy camp as a distraction).

That's what the Magic Stone cantrip is for

[sevensided]

Shillelagh doesn't really come into its own in D&D unless you can also use one of the Blade cantrips from Tasha's (which, sadly, likely won't be in BG3 without a mod). A Spore druid rocking the beat stick, and booming or green flame blade is quite good as a frontliner.