Action Points vs DnD move/action/etc

[Lunduke is the Trump of tech]

I think Action Points which are used in games such as FO1+2 was a better system. It allowed more freedom for players and game developer. For example what if you want to make a fast weapon switch possible by dropping the bow on the ground. In DnD it would still have to use up entire move but in Action Point system you can make it take up less AP. It was just one example.

I think larion should change to action point system instead for BG3

[Yojo0o]

No, that doesn't work with this system. People would just eldritch blast 2-3 times a turn. You'd need to rebuild from the ground up for this to be balanced.

Also, how did you get unbanned with the same name? I thought they forced a name change, did you just change it back in spite of that?

[RealDealBreaker]

What a ♥♥♥♥ take.
"Let's take the game that is supposed to be based on d&d 5e and then completely change the combat system at the 11th hour to not resemble d&d at all." - Pan

[Lunduke is the Trump of tech]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

What a ♥♥♥♥ take.
"Let's take the game that is supposed to be based on d&d 5e and then completely change the combat system at the 11th hour to not resemble d&d at all." - Pan

relax, it would still be turn based

[dolby]

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

No, that doesn't work with this system. People would just eldritch blast 2-3 times a turn. You'd need to rebuild from the ground up for this to be balanced.

Also, how did you get unbanned with the same name? I thought they forced a name change, did you just change it back in spite of that?

what are you talking about we can do that now lol

and it will just get more ap like, if muticlassing becomes a reality and if nothing was changed for final version of the game

[Dragon Master]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

What a ♥♥♥♥ take.
"Let's take the game that is supposed to be based on d&d 5e and then completely change the combat system at the 11th hour to not resemble d&d at all." - Pan

relax, it would still be turn based

The game being turn based is not even up for discussion, it’s the underlying mechanics that runs the whole system that you want to change and it’s stupid.

An action point economy is what the Original Sin games use. This is not an original sin game, it’s D&D.

[Yojo0o]

Originally posted by dolby:

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

No, that doesn't work with this system. People would just eldritch blast 2-3 times a turn. You'd need to rebuild from the ground up for this to be balanced.

Also, how did you get unbanned with the same name? I thought they forced a name change, did you just change it back in spite of that?

what are you talking about we can do that now lol

and it will just get more ap like, if muticlassing becomes a reality and if nothing was changed for final version of the game

No, you can't convert your various turn resources into casting eldritch blast 2-3 times in a turn in 5e.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

What a ♥♥♥♥ take.
"Let's take the game that is supposed to be based on d&d 5e and then completely change the combat system at the 11th hour to not resemble d&d at all." - Pan

It's not original pandarius, but the identity thief



Also, kinda unrelated but one issue with AP systems is it seems like developers always decide to have a stat that gives you more action points.

Stop making automatic best stats in the game like this, game designers!

[Lunduke is the Trump of tech]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

What a ♥♥♥♥ take.
"Let's take the game that is supposed to be based on d&d 5e and then completely change the combat system at the 11th hour to not resemble d&d at all." - Pan

It's not original pandarius, but the identity thief



Also, kinda unrelated but one issue with AP systems is it seems like developers always decide to have a stat that gives you more action points.

Stop making automatic best stats in the game like this, game designers!

It's not exactly the best attribute which increases AP. The others are important too like increasing perception for better ranged accuracy, access to perks/traits which are for ranged weapons. Luck. Charisma. constitution is actually important too if you aren't a save scummer, strength important for melee and heavy weapons etc. Intelligence which giives skill points and exp etc. I think it works great.

I'm also not an identity thief.

[Indure]

Never going to happen with this game, nothing more to say.

As for action points, I absolutely hate games that use APs for movement, it always destroys any sort of balance between melee and range damage, since AP for movement is way more of a penalty for melee. Even in DOS 2 you can see the corrosive effect, causing all builds to need 2-3 teleports just to do anything constructive during their turn.

[Lunduke is the Trump of tech]

Originally posted by Indure:

Never going to happen with this game, nothing more to say.

As for action points, I absolutely hate games that use APs for movement, it always destroys any sort of balance between melee and range damage, since AP for movement is way more of a penalty for melee. Even in DOS 2 you can see the corrosive effect, causing all builds to need 2-3 teleports just to do anything constructive during their turn.

That's not a problem with AP system. The basic core idea is that melee pwns ranged when you get into melee range. So yes of course ranged has initial advantage until the melee gets into melee range, then the tables get turned. That's the core idea in basically every single game, not only AP system games. Ranged in any RPG game has to try to kill their enemies before they get into melee. They have to try and kite and/or stay behind their allies/tanks. You can use environment sometimes to shoot from a safe location, and melee can also use environment to force the enemy range to come into melee range by waiting around a corner or maybe objective is inside a building where there's only melee range possible etc. It's balanced if the devs are good.

[dulany67]

Meh, DOS is a better system for video games arguably, but not every game has to be the same.

[Indure]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

Originally posted by Indure:

Never going to happen with this game, nothing more to say.

As for action points, I absolutely hate games that use APs for movement, it always destroys any sort of balance between melee and range damage, since AP for movement is way more of a penalty for melee. Even in DOS 2 you can see the corrosive effect, causing all builds to need 2-3 teleports just to do anything constructive during their turn.

That's not a problem with AP system. The basic core idea is that melee pwns ranged when you get into melee range. So yes of course ranged has initial advantage until the melee gets into melee range, then the tables get turned. That's the core idea in basically every single game, not only AP system games. Ranged in any RPG game has to try to kill their enemies before they get into melee. They have to try and kite and/or stay behind their allies/tanks. You can use environment sometimes to shoot from a safe location, and melee can also use environment to force the enemy range to come into melee range by waiting around a corner or maybe objective is inside a building where there's only melee range possible etc. It's balanced if the devs are good.

I think you misunderstand my point, in games like DOS2 you share AP between actions and movement. So if you have 5 AP and it takes you 3 AP to move you only have 2 for a melee attack. Range on the other hand can spend 1 AP to move, and 4 on attacks, which means stronger or more attacks.

DOS 2 solution is just to make it so each build has 2-3 teleports for movement because without it melee would be wasting 75%-80% of their AP to move around the battlefield.

In a game like BG3 movement is completely decoupled from your action, which is better all around.

[dolby]

Originally posted by Yojo0o:

Originally posted by dolby:

what are you talking about we can do that now lol

and it will just get more ap like, if muticlassing becomes a reality and if nothing was changed for final version of the game

No, you can't convert your various turn resources into casting eldritch blast 2-3 times in a turn in 5e.

well you can't save AP but you can blast eldritch blast multiple times.. and with muticlassing we gonna have multiple spells per turn around 6-7 so yeah just like having 10 ap and you get free movement on top of it.

[Lunduke is the Trump of tech]

Originally posted by Indure:

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

That's not a problem with AP system. The basic core idea is that melee pwns ranged when you get into melee range. So yes of course ranged has initial advantage until the melee gets into melee range, then the tables get turned. That's the core idea in basically every single game, not only AP system games. Ranged in any RPG game has to try to kill their enemies before they get into melee. They have to try and kite and/or stay behind their allies/tanks. You can use environment sometimes to shoot from a safe location, and melee can also use environment to force the enemy range to come into melee range by waiting around a corner or maybe objective is inside a building where there's only melee range possible etc. It's balanced if the devs are good.

I think you misunderstand my point, in games like DOS2 you share AP between actions and movement. So if you have 5 AP and it takes you 3 AP to move you only have 2 for a melee attack. Range on the other hand can spend 1 AP to move, and 4 on attacks, which means stronger or more attacks.

That's how it is supposed to work, melee are supposed to be at disadvantage when they are at range and at advantage when they are in melee. I think you should reread what I wrote.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Indure:

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

That's not a problem with AP system. The basic core idea is that melee pwns ranged when you get into melee range. So yes of course ranged has initial advantage until the melee gets into melee range, then the tables get turned. That's the core idea in basically every single game, not only AP system games. Ranged in any RPG game has to try to kill their enemies before they get into melee. They have to try and kite and/or stay behind their allies/tanks. You can use environment sometimes to shoot from a safe location, and melee can also use environment to force the enemy range to come into melee range by waiting around a corner or maybe objective is inside a building where there's only melee range possible etc. It's balanced if the devs are good.

I think you misunderstand my point, in games like DOS2 you share AP between actions and movement. So if you have 5 AP and it takes you 3 AP to move you only have 2 for a melee attack. Range on the other hand can spend 1 AP to move, and 4 on attacks, which means stronger or more attacks.

DOS 2 solution is just to make it so each build has 2-3 teleports for movement because without it melee would be wasting 75%-80% of their AP to move around the battlefield.

In a game like BG3 movement is completely decoupled from your action, which is better all around.

Agreed - this is one advantage of the nu-XCOM 'move and act' system (which is alot like D&D honestly). It lets you move regularly without making huge sacrifices - pure AP systems are frequently purely about standing completely still all fight which is less than exciting.

Honestly even with all the teleports in DOS 2 I found my 'melee' attackers spent a lot of time using battering ram, battle stomp, and shield throw which are all attacks that can hit at range.