Sympathy For The Vampires [Companion Spoilers]

[Actalo]

The game attempts to emotionally blackmail the player into allowing several thousand vampire spawn to roam free - because some of these spawn are (were) children. It's clever because I know a lot of players will believe THIS is the good ending and feel pressured into allowing them to go free. Except, this is the most EVIL choice you can make.

I can understand a player thinking, in a clinically pragmatic way, "Okay, I'll let the vampires go in exchange for them fighting against my enemies, the Absolute," but no, the player is given the option to release them into the Underdark. And what happens when they've murdered all the Deep Gnomes and Deugar? Eventually, they're going to make their way topside, all several thousand of them.

Vampires, in D&D lore, are undead, they are not alive. They are by any metric, evil. They have an UNCONTROLLABLE thirst for humanoid blood - and will do anything to get it. No matter what, at any moment, a vampire can and will turn on anyone.

The best part of the story is when you first meet Astarion's two siblings in the motel and his brother is fantasizing about killing a humanoid right after their master's ascension... then in immediate succession, a cutscene kicks off which is designed to suddenly twist everything around and suddenly the player feels sympathy for the vampire as Astarion begins to torture this creature for information. One second he's fantasizing about murder, next minute the player wants to hug him.

Clever Larian

[DaniTheHero]

Yeah.. agreed.

[Husker_85]

On the flipside:

- they can't reproduce
- they're relatively weak
- 7000 seems like a lot, but it's a small settlement
- they're in the underdark
- not even among the top 5 most dangerous factions down there

[Zyenu]

No good natured character should let any vampire live, In my first playthrough I wipe them all out including the first one that shows up at camp. Cool Buffy moment I was not expecting it.

[DaniTheHero]

Originally posted by Zyenu:

No good natured character should let any vampire live, In my first playthrough I wipe them all out including the first one that shows up at camp. Cool Buffy moment I was not expecting it.

It's an Oathbreak for the Paladin to kill them.

[Grumpy]

The point is that you don't wield the power of death without knowing the consequences. It could be good, it could be bad who knows?

For me i decided to give them one chance while they went on the underdark and with the hope the Gurr will watch their children at least. If they don't behave, my character is ready to go there and burn the whole group.

[Tiviani]

7000 might seem like a lot but the majority of them will most likely perish in the underdark rather than thrive. They've been in captivity for centuries and very weak.

[Lanilen]

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

Originally posted by Zyenu:

No good natured character should let any vampire live, In my first playthrough I wipe them all out including the first one that shows up at camp. Cool Buffy moment I was not expecting it.

It's an Oathbreak for the Paladin to kill them.

Wait... What?!

[DaniTheHero]

Originally posted by Lanilen:

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

It's an Oathbreak for the Paladin to kill them.

Wait... What?!

Yup, at least for a Paladin of Devotion, not sure about the other two.

[Metrod125]

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

Originally posted by Lanilen:

Wait... What?!

Yup, at least for a Paladin of Devotion, not sure about the other two.

Vengeance does not break when killing them, but does when using them to ascend Astarion

[DaniTheHero]

Originally posted by Metrod125:

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

Yup, at least for a Paladin of Devotion, not sure about the other two.

Vengeance does not break when killing them, but does when using them to ascend Astarion

It makes sense I guess? Devotion is about not hurting the innocent.
The spawns haven't done anything wrong yet, it's a choice between killing 7000 people, or letting them go and MAYBE some of them will cause issues.

Then again you are condemning people to death with this decision, even one rogue spawn could kill dozens if not hundreds before it will be slain.

[Night Writer]

Originally posted by Isaac_Clark:

On the flipside:

- they can't reproduce
- they're relatively weak
- 7000 seems like a lot, but it's a small settlement
- they're in the underdark
- not even among the top 5 most dangerous factions down there

Your mindset is hilarious, and it actually makes me concerned about your moral compass Please let me explain:

- VAMPIRES can reproduce ( by making Vampire Spawn by turning humanoids). That's how they reproduce. Whether by the True Vampire feeding his own blood to a vampire spawn or by the True Vampire being killed granting all his spawn free will, and lets say for the giggles they can't make more, they could all kill 7000 more victims right? So they can certainly reproduce dead bodies. That makes them essentially evil incarnate and should be immediately burned to ash by holy fire. Starting with Astarion. (I threw him into a LAVA Chasm personally, after I took all his gear)

-they are relatively weak compared to what? An old man is relatively weak, compared to a young strong healthy man. But an old man has experience, wisdom, and skills at his disposal, as well as knowing he does not have that much to lose. Meaning he is FAR MORE DANGEROUS, than you might give him credit for. An old man with nothing in his hands may be easy to deal with, but an old man with a knife in his back pocket becomes far more. Ask any cops that have had to arrest them.

I use this comparison because Vampires are older, wiser, and by their very Undead nature longer lived than most other species, meaning they are more dangerous.

If you are saying Vampires are relatively weak in DnD in general, well you'd be wrong because there is a reason there are 7000 of them right there at that moment right? They didn't just appear out of thin air. They were made, and as you can see in Astarion's case in the game he is more than capable of killing pretty much anything his size (humanoid) without issue, and he's not even a "TRUE" Vampire.

-7000 seems like a lot, but its a small settlement.....Are you for real right now?
7000 Vampires could easily be converted into 70,000 if each Vampire simply turned 10 people. Whether this happened in a short time or a long time is irrelevant as the possibility to do so remains, and that is what the concern is.

Also when comparing most High Fantasy Lore to DnD, 7,000 people is typically a very large number. This would not be considered a small settlement, but a well established town.

-They are in the UNDERDARK? .....ok. You act as if things in the Underdark don't come to the surface? (You do it yourself in the game)
Whats crazy is you don't consider how much of a benefit them being in the Underdark is?
Do you really think a huge slaughtering of all humanoid races in the Underdark is a good thing?

Just think of the Deep Gnomes!!!

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by Night Writer:

Originally posted by Isaac_Clark:

On the flipside:

- they can't reproduce
- they're relatively weak
- 7000 seems like a lot, but it's a small settlement
- they're in the underdark
- not even among the top 5 most dangerous factions down there

Your mindset is hilarious, and it actually makes me concerned about your moral compass Please let me explain:

- VAMPIRES can reproduce ( by making Vampire Spawn by turning humanoids). That's how they reproduce. Whether by the True Vampire feeding his own blood to a vampire spawn or by the True Vampire being killed granting all his spawn free will, and lets say for the giggles they can't make more, they could all kill 7000 more victims right? So they can certainly reproduce dead bodies. That makes them essentially evil incarnate and should be immediately burned to ash by holy fire. Starting with Astarion. (I threw him into a LAVA Chasm personally, after I took all his gear)

-they are relatively weak compared to what? An old man is relatively weak, compared to a young strong healthy man. But an old man has experience, wisdom, and skills at his disposal, as well as knowing he does not have that much to lose. Meaning he is FAR MORE DANGEROUS, than you might give him credit for. An old man with nothing in his hands may be easy to deal with, but an old man with a knife in his back pocket becomes far more. Ask any cops that have had to arrest them.

I use this comparison because Vampires are older, wiser, and by their very Undead nature longer lived than most other species, meaning they are more dangerous.

If you are saying Vampires are relatively weak in DnD in general, well you'd be wrong because there is a reason there are 7000 of them right there at that moment right? They didn't just appear out of thin air. They were made, and as you can see in Astarion's case in the game he is more than capable of killing pretty much anything his size (humanoid) without issue, and he's not even a "TRUE" Vampire.

-7000 seems like a lot, but its a small settlement.....Are you for real right now?
7000 Vampires could easily be converted into 70,000 if each Vampire simply turned 10 people. Whether this happened in a short time or a long time is irrelevant as the possibility to do so remains, and that is what the concern is.

Also when comparing most High Fantasy Lore to DnD, 7,000 people is typically a very large number. This would not be considered a small settlement, but a well established town.

-They are in the UNDERDARK? .....ok. You act as if things in the Underdark don't come to the surface? (You do it yourself in the game)
Whats crazy is you don't consider how much of a benefit them being in the Underdark is?
Do you really think a huge slaughtering of all humanoid races in the Underdark is a good thing?

Just think of the Deep Gnomes!!!

I don't get the think about them being True vampires now... Is that still true in this version of Dnd by Larian? Because i'm not sure Astarion became a true vampire after his master's death at least nothing in the game is hinting at that.

[Metrod125]

Originally posted by Night Writer:

Originally posted by Isaac_Clark:

On the flipside:

- they can't reproduce
- they're relatively weak
- 7000 seems like a lot, but it's a small settlement
- they're in the underdark
- not even among the top 5 most dangerous factions down there

Your mindset is hilarious, and it actually makes me concerned about your moral compass Please let me explain:

- VAMPIRES can reproduce ( by making Vampire Spawn by turning humanoids). That's how they reproduce. Whether by the True Vampire feeding his own blood to a vampire spawn or by the True Vampire being killed granting all his spawn free will, and lets say for the giggles they can't make more, they could all kill 7000 more victims right? So they can certainly reproduce dead bodies. That makes them essentially evil incarnate and should be immediately burned to ash by holy fire. Starting with Astarion. (I threw him into a LAVA Chasm personally, after I took all his gear)

-they are relatively weak compared to what? An old man is relatively weak, compared to a young strong healthy man. But an old man has experience, wisdom, and skills at his disposal, as well as knowing he does not have that much to lose. Meaning he is FAR MORE DANGEROUS, than you might give him credit for. An old man with nothing in his hands may be easy to deal with, but an old man with a knife in his back pocket becomes far more. Ask any cops that have had to arrest them.

I use this comparison because Vampires are older, wiser, and by their very Undead nature longer lived than most other species, meaning they are more dangerous.

If you are saying Vampires are relatively weak in DnD in general, well you'd be wrong because there is a reason there are 7000 of them right there at that moment right? They didn't just appear out of thin air. They were made, and as you can see in Astarion's case in the game he is more than capable of killing pretty much anything his size (humanoid) without issue, and he's not even a "TRUE" Vampire.

-7000 seems like a lot, but its a small settlement.....Are you for real right now?
7000 Vampires could easily be converted into 70,000 if each Vampire simply turned 10 people. Whether this happened in a short time or a long time is irrelevant as the possibility to do so remains, and that is what the concern is.

Also when comparing most High Fantasy Lore to DnD, 7,000 people is typically a very large number. This would not be considered a small settlement, but a well established town.

-They are in the UNDERDARK? .....ok. You act as if things in the Underdark don't come to the surface? (You do it yourself in the game)
Whats crazy is you don't consider how much of a benefit them being in the Underdark is?
Do you really think a huge slaughtering of all humanoid races in the Underdark is a good thing?

Just think of the Deep Gnomes!!!

I’m pretty sure by reproduce they mean natural birth by sexual intercourse. Not something akin to the mind flayer parasites but less ugly

[Aaewen]

Originally posted by Isaac_Clark:

On the flipside:

- they can't reproduce
- they're relatively weak
- 7000 seems like a lot, but it's a small settlement
- they're in the underdark
- not even among the top 5 most dangerous factions down there

- They cannot reproduce like humans do. But they can certainly reproduce by infecting others with their blood. This is how the vampire masters got Astarion and so many others.

- They don't die out by old age.

- Yes this is an RPG, not real life. Vampires in real life would be devastating for us humans. But in BG3, it is just many of the monsters there, not even the strongest.

- BUT, if you did play through Astorian person quest, you will know his master sinister plan was to create a horde of vampires and used their existence to ascend himself to vampire lord. Supposedly some much more powerful vampire with no side effect (like being afraid of sunlight). So they can become powerful.

[Aaewen]

Originally posted by Tiviani:

7000 might seem like a lot but the majority of them will most likely perish in the underdark rather than thrive. They've been in captivity for centuries and very weak.

So which factions in the Underdark had the kind of power to control and enslave them?

I know the Absolute cult is one of them, but supposedly, when we finish this game (in a few weeks game time) we would destroy the Absolute. So that is one less faction to deal with the vampires.