If "romances" had been done the way Bioware did it, there would be zero threads complaining about them

[opus132]

You can try it to deny it, but it's just true, and the proof is that there was no such reaction to Bioware romances, including the LGBTQ ones.

Romances should be optional and should be entirely at the discretion of the player whether one wants to see them or not. It is the ONLY approach that will make everyone happy.

[Zerostalgia]

Originally posted by Dragonirian:

The one where narrator suddenly says "the situation calls for intimacy" and your straight Male character gets uncomfortably close to Gale and they look at each other with lust.
Only after this happens you can "sever the connection" which makes both gale and YOUR straight character extremely sad and dissapointed.

Intimacy isn't inherently sexual.
Getting close isn't inherently sexual.
Looking at each other isn't inherently sexual.
Lust? How is that denoted?

[Celine Dijon]

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

Originally posted by Hot Lips:

Many people like the term queer as it is often seen as an umbrella term to avoid more specific labels. Nobody has to disclose to you what they are, you freak. I stand by what I said, you're straight and you understand nothing of what you're talking about.

You're calling me insults because . . .

What you said literally doesn't contradict anything I wrote. It just proves what I said was correct. Many ppl don't like the term queer too.

The irony of you saying no one has to disclose anything to you, something I never claimed, is delicious.

You stand by you're position that I am straight because you dislike my point of view. Thank you for confirming your bigotry and prejudice once again. This is exactly the type of position which continues to drive down LGBTQ+ acceptance. Your position is that sexuality indicates morality and therefore you're exactly the same as the ppl you most hate.

Let me see if I can argue like you guys: Maybe you should go to a straight bar and try straight sex

Almost everything you stated was false. You took my words, twisted them, and made an argument based on that. You’re laughable. This isn’t even mentioning the transphobia you posted. You deserve every insult you got.

[Dragonirian]

Originally posted by Zerostalgia:

Originally posted by Dragonirian:

The one where narrator suddenly says "the situation calls for intimacy" and your straight Male character gets uncomfortably close to Gale and they look at each other with lust.
Only after this happens you can "sever the connection" which makes both gale and YOUR straight character extremely sad and dissapointed.

Intimacy isn't inherently sexual.
Getting close isn't inherently sexual.
Looking at each other isn't inherently sexual.
Lust? How is that denoted?

Look at the scene and tell me it's not conveying sexual tension. I will be certain that you lie when you do.

[Zerostalgia]

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

Let me see if I can argue like you guys: Maybe you should go to a straight bar and try straight sex

I have. It was great.

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

Mate, we'd essentially be in agreement except your judgement is clouded by prejudice. Sexuality is not a choice. Choosing to identify as queer is. It is also not a prerequisite to be non-heterosexual to join. Many non-heterosexuals hate the term "queer" because it was historically and sometimes still is a slur and is indicative of a move away from fighting for gay/lesbian rights and mainly about pushing trans ideology or in opposition to their original goals of integration in society and which can include policies and rhetoric detrimental to lesbian and gay ppl.

Cool. You should probably put that extra bit of effort into your phrasing in future so you don't use the phrase "being queer is a choice" again. Just replace "being" with the words "calling yourself". Glad you're able to understand the difference

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

Kids often choose one label and move to another, I know ppl who have said they were bi and later said they're straight, ppl who said they're bi then said they're gay, gay to bi etc. In terms of Non-binary it's a gender and therefore you can choose your gender in modern times because it is something you identify with. That's why non-binary as a gender in the modern Western sense literally didn't exist before this century. Or you can't be hijra of fafafine outside of those respective societies (although as in the West occasionally society around you can effectively choose your gender).

Mmm see this also needs work. Just because someone's journey with their sexuality or gender identity is not stagnant doesn't mean you can say that you're coshing to be anything.[/quote]

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

As for they gay bar, if you read what I'd written properly you'd literally know the answer to your question.

Humour me and save myself the time and just tell me plainly if you've been. Not that hard to just bring it up again.

[Zerostalgia]

Originally posted by Dragonirian:

Originally posted by Zerostalgia:

Intimacy isn't inherently sexual.
Getting close isn't inherently sexual.
Looking at each other isn't inherently sexual.
Lust? How is that denoted?

Look at the scene and tell me it's not conveying sexual tension. I will be certain that you lie when you do.

I looked at it and said, "Oh I bet someone stuck in a hate-filled echo chamber would have an issue with this."
Guess my hypothesis was right.
For me, the fact that the above is not inherently sexual I did not pick up on any lust. Please tell me how lust is actually denoted in the scene instead because I clearly missed it.

[robert.steven.marshall]

Originally posted by Hot Lips:

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

Hahahaha You just know I'm not queer. What a great empirically reasoned argument lol.

I've already written why you of course can identify as queer hence why it is an identity which only exists in English.

I also enjoyed the part where you decided my gender a little transphobic is it not? Especially because it's also something I can literally change at will. But then you didn't deal with what queer means to many gay, lesbian, bisexual ppl nor the inclusion of anti-science terms or the "they" pronoun.

Treating queer ppl as equal would be statistically not including them amongst the companions or max one. You don't want equal treatment. And this is again not what true equality is about.

" these threads specifically are created by straight men that are so incredibly fragile" Please keep outing your own bigotry and prejudice. I have commented on another thread by a woman who made the same types of arguments. She also got called all the same names. So we know what you're saying is provably false.

You're also literally speaking to ppl who are saying to you that they should be able to choose, including gay ppl, and painting all of them as evil and therefore must be straight men. There are a bunch of non-straight men who have made exactly the same criticisms. You have dealt with none of them. Because you aren't interested in the actual arguments you just want to strawman everyone.

What is worse is that you're literally saying there are valid criticisms but I am going to disagree on the basis of who the person is who is saying it. Which I've completely assumed. That, my friend, is disgusting. You are no better than the ppl you're inventing into existing in 90% of the cases.

By your definition, literally every companion is queer. Unless I take your recent claim at face value and say no one is queer unless they have sex with someone of the same sex lol. I can apparently change someone's sexuality via dialogue options. So you think sexuality is a choice. Well done, again more proof that you are the thing you hate the most.

Thank you for again proving my point that you're the bigot. You're the problem. You're the one amplifying the homophobia by calling anyone who disagrees with you a homophobe. Saying, well I have no evidence but I'm just going to claim it anyway, puts you on the same level as a religious extremist. This is precisely the reason why LGTBQ+ acceptance is dropping like a stone. Any legitimate criticism is rejected by ppl who decide you must be bad based on your sex/gender and sexuality instead of dealing with the actual arguments.

Oh and you threw in xenophobia as well. My bigotry bingo card is filling up.

You argue like Ben Shapiro. You’ve done nothing but put words in my mouth and it’s rather funny as all it does it show me that you have no point but to ramble, much like Shapiro.

I know you’re not queer, your attempt at playing naive or perhaps attempt at trolling is pathetic at best. I’m not mentioning this again and I’m tired of talking to an idiot.

They/them pronouns are not “anti science” but I’m not here to convince you.

Where are these countless women and gay men you claim are saying they want to choose? They don’t exist because they CAN choose. Everybody can choose. You simply DENY the ones you don’t want a romance with. It’s so simple a toddler could understand it. But that must be hard for someone like you.

Now let’s see where you put words in my mouth. I never said that I think theres valid criticisms but I wouldn’t agree on the basis of what the person is. The problem is when homophobia is brought into it. If that’s left out then sure, I can agree. But all your pathetic little mind can do is twist words to fit your agenda.

I don’t know how many times I have to express this. This is a game. Not reality. Why would you use real statistics to determine how many queer characters should be included when it’s a game based in a fantasy realm.

For your next point I have to reiterate, ITS A GAME. In the GAME these CHARACTERS do not have sexualities, they only have eyes for the player. THEY ARE NOT REAL PEOPLE. I stated how people work and then how these characters work but somehow in your mind you have blended the two together as I have said you live vicariously through video games.

Your entire post was putting words into my mouth in order to prove your own points. The evidence is all written. You sound insane

♥♥♥♥ me I didn't want a strawman. You're just continually outing yourself over and over again.

Anti-science was clearly in reference to identity being female or male. Which you don't dare deal with. Use of "they" has no connection to science whatsoever. And the fact I used "or" clearly proves you've strawmanned me.

You know I'm not queer because . . . no reason. Thank you for disproving that once again.

The ppl I mentioned are in all of these threads, you can literally scroll through here and find them or look at the OPs of other threads. But I also often can't tell everyone's sex and sexuality just like you. Again disproving your other point. Well done you were manipulated into arguing against your original point on the basis that you think I'm a straight man and therefore wrong. Thus also proving, again, that you don't address the arguments but attack the other person based on who they are. In fact it's worse than that because it's based on who you perceive the other person to be. It's another level of intolerance.

You also can't demand proof when you aren't willing to show any you infant.

I enjoy the strawman once again which is that the problem is not being able to choose to say no but, as I and countless others have repeatedly said, they are front-loaded, poorly written, come onto you in ways that make no narrative sense practically regardless of what you do, you often have a choice of either sex or dislike and no friend option. They come onto you again even after you turn them down and they come onto each other as you're wandering around. There is no romance in this game only casual sex. There are also ppl who want to play as a homosexual or heterosexual character exclusively or want none of the verging on sexual harassment that occurs. When a woman in another thread said she didn't want this due to her personal past she was also told she was a bigoted homophobe. Because you guys don't tackle the actual arguments. And again this drives down LGBTQ+ acceptance.

You "I'm not saying there aren't valid criticisms"
Also you: "I never said that I think theres valid criticisms"

You also literally keep saying that everyone who disagrees with you is a fragile straight man. Based on nothing.

"Why would you use real statistics to determine how many queer characters should be included when it’s a game based in a fantasy realm. " Because that was literally your argument. So well done you've destroyed your own argument that "queer" ppl deserve representation or that you want equal representation.

You're effectively arguing with yourself but saying I'm wrong because you assume my sexuality and gender. Again. It is absolutely hilarious that I'm using what you literally said and then you argue against it and then about how words are being put in your mouth.

The fact you keep resorting to insults is just once again outing you as a hateful bigoted person.

[Dragonirian]

Originally posted by Zerostalgia:

Originally posted by Dragonirian:

Look at the scene and tell me it's not conveying sexual tension. I will be certain that you lie when you do.

I looked at it and said, "Oh I bet someone stuck in a hate-filled echo chamber would have an issue with this."
Guess my hypothesis was right.
For me, the fact that the above is not inherently sexual I did not pick up on any lust. Please tell me how lust is actually denoted in the scene instead because I clearly missed it.

I am now convinced that you lie.

[robert.steven.marshall]

Originally posted by Hot Lips:

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

You're calling me insults because . . .

What you said literally doesn't contradict anything I wrote. It just proves what I said was correct. Many ppl don't like the term queer too.

The irony of you saying no one has to disclose anything to you, something I never claimed, is delicious.

You stand by you're position that I am straight because you dislike my point of view. Thank you for confirming your bigotry and prejudice once again. This is exactly the type of position which continues to drive down LGBTQ+ acceptance. Your position is that sexuality indicates morality and therefore you're exactly the same as the ppl you most hate.

Let me see if I can argue like you guys: Maybe you should go to a straight bar and try straight sex

Almost everything you stated was false. You took my words, twisted them, and made an argument based on that. You’re laughable. This isn’t even mentioning the transphobia you posted. You deserve every insult you got.

Oh you're running scared. Your comeback is basically , "but no". I'm using what you said. I agree what you said was dumb and can easily be used against you.

If I said something transphobic you could easily refer to it. You can't.

You've so far attacked ppl on the basis of their sexuality, sex/gender and country of origin.

[robert.steven.marshall]

Originally posted by AirRevenant:

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

Mate, we'd essentially be in agreement except your judgement is clouded by prejudice.

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

Sexuality is not a choice. Choosing to identify as queer is.--- Many non-heterosexuals hate the term "queer" because it --- is --- mainly about pushing trans ideology -- rhetoric detrimental to lesbian and gay ppl.

You are not clever at just hiding blatant transphobia. You just squeeze a lot of extra words in the middle, to either show, or pretend to show, support of other communities that once were more marginalized than they are now.

You aren't anything but another full broadcast bigot.

Oh - but at least you aren't prejudice, right? Not coming at this in bad faith?

Eyes cannot roll loudly enough.

Please show me the transphobic thing I said. Oh you can't.

Being anti-trans ideology, which is separate from trans ppl and often works against trans ppl, is not transphobic.

I can tell however that you haven't even the basic understanding of the historical role of third genders in societies. It isn't progressive.

[robert.steven.marshall]

Originally posted by AirRevenant:

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

Kids often choose one label and move to another, I know ppl who have said they were bi and later said they're straight, ppl who said they're bi then said they're gay, gay to bi etc.

It's almost as if, people grow over time, or learn more about themselves. At least those that are willing to.

I agree, but you're essentially arguing with the other person

[robert.steven.marshall]

Originally posted by Zerostalgia:

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

Let me see if I can argue like you guys: Maybe you should go to a straight bar and try straight sex

I have. It was great.

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

Mate, we'd essentially be in agreement except your judgement is clouded by prejudice. Sexuality is not a choice. Choosing to identify as queer is. It is also not a prerequisite to be non-heterosexual to join. Many non-heterosexuals hate the term "queer" because it was historically and sometimes still is a slur and is indicative of a move away from fighting for gay/lesbian rights and mainly about pushing trans ideology or in opposition to their original goals of integration in society and which can include policies and rhetoric detrimental to lesbian and gay ppl.

Cool. You should probably put that extra bit of effort into your phrasing in future so you don't use the phrase "being queer is a choice" again. Just replace "being" with the words "calling yourself". Glad you're able to understand the difference :er_heart:

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

Kids often choose one label and move to another, I know ppl who have said they were bi and later said they're straight, ppl who said they're bi then said they're gay, gay to bi etc. In terms of Non-binary it's a gender and therefore you can choose your gender in modern times because it is something you identify with. That's why non-binary as a gender in the modern Western sense literally didn't exist before this century. Or you can't be hijra of fafafine outside of those respective societies (although as in the West occasionally society around you can effectively choose your gender).

Mmm see this also needs work. Just because someone's journey with their sexuality or gender identity is not stagnant doesn't mean you can say that you're coshing to be anything.

Originally posted by robert.steven.marshall:

As for they gay bar, if you read what I'd written properly you'd literally know the answer to your question.

Humour me and save myself the time and just tell me plainly if you've been. Not that hard to just bring it up again. [/quote]

a) Straight bar is not a thing. But you not sure you got that I was trying to mimic a silly argument.

b) Depends on your position. In modern LGBTQ+ circles "identifying as" is the equivalent of "being". But essentially we're showing that the term Queer is not without it's issues. Again I think we essentially agree on the fundamental point.

c) I don't know what you mean by "coshing". Sexuality and gender identity act in different although related ways. Some genders only exist in set societies and can even be chosen for you as a child. I don't think you can really say the same about sexuality although it doesn't seem to be innate.

d) I'm apparently an evil straight guy and therefore clearly wouldn't have stepped foot in a gay bar because of my awful terrible homophobic ways. Obviously I've burnt a few to the ground like all fragile straight men.

[Zerostalgia]

Originally posted by Dragonirian:

Originally posted by Zerostalgia:

I looked at it and said, "Oh I bet someone stuck in a hate-filled echo chamber would have an issue with this."
Guess my hypothesis was right.
For me, the fact that the above is not inherently sexual I did not pick up on any lust. Please tell me how lust is actually denoted in the scene instead because I clearly missed it.

I am now convinced that you lie.

I've seen that you've been convinced that being queer is the same as being a pedo.
You being convinced of anything isn't a compelling point to me.
https://youtu.be/UgCK8PnFK_Y

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by LivingVitae:

Originally posted by Szorrin:

You must not have been around during Dragon Age Inquisition's release. People were whining nearly as much as they are now.

Inquisition is really after Bioware, that was EAs involvement starting to show.

Uh, Bioware is a studio under Electronic Arts....

They been owned by EA since 2007

Dragon Age origins was released November 2009...

[[Heretic]Rivga]

Originally posted by opus132:

You can try it to deny it, but it's just true, and the proof is that there was no such reaction to Bioware romances, including the LGBTQ ones.

Romances should be optional and should be entirely at the discretion of the player whether one wants to see them or not. It is the ONLY approach that will make everyone happy.

You clearly forgot about the crap storm from races in the bioware games.

[Dragonirian]

Originally posted by Zerostalgia:

Originally posted by Dragonirian:

I am now convinced that you lie.

I've seen that you've been convinced that being queer is the same as being a pedo.
You being convinced of anything isn't a compelling point to me.
https://youtu.be/UgCK8PnFK_Y

Are you referring to my responses to the "they exist and therefore should be represented" argument?