am I missing something or do 2 rogue subclasses just not function?

[ZexxCrine]

arcane trickster's mage hand cannot be used in any extra way. its just invisible. it claims you can do more, but as far as I can tell it cannot do any more than the gith hand even though it says that it should be able to do more.

assassin doesn't get its action refunded on surprise attacks. it says it is supposed to. however every single class in the game gets an action point refunded if they start a combat. no class including assassin gets it refunded if they join the combat later during surprise attacks which seems like the entire point of that feature.

Edit: this is a bug. if you initiate a sneak attack in turn based mode you will get your action back no matter what class you are.

am I missing something on either of these points? please tell me i'm wrong.

edit: for further reference of my points

actions get refunded by everyone
https://youtu.be/knD4RzCQEiM

arcane trickster's mage hand's supposed extra functions
https://i.imgur.com/xh64QGU.png

[ACS36]

Many of the sub classes in the game are bad.

You really need a dungeon master to fill in the gaps. Computer games are more mechanical.

[ZexxCrine]

Originally posted by ACS36:

Many of the sub classes in the game are bad.

You really need a dungeon master to fill in the gaps. Computer games are more mechanical.

also not really my question. i don't care about the viability or how "good" either of these classes are. these classes have features that by all accounts, that I have seen, do not function mechanically as they should. I am asking for clarification of those features no matter how good or bad they may be.

[angelsenvy228]

Originally posted by ZexxCrine:

Originally posted by Sheev Racer:

Assassin is insane when combined with a Gloomstalker Ranger. Ranger 5 and then pick up Assassin and you'll be a turn 1 monster. Ranger + Thief also works well for the extra bonus action(shoot 4-5x a turn with dualwield hand crossbows, or dual wield + hunters mark)

not my question. complete non-sequitur

Yep! I just tested it, out of turn based mode my action is gone, start from inside turn based mode and my action is refunded! Good to know :) My guess is that in turn based mode, you attack and then combat starts creating a new turn thus new action. Out of turn based mode, I have lost my action but I can still make my class extra attack. Start from inside turn based mode, I have my action back but no extra attack from my sneak attack. Tested only briefly with my melee fighter but seems to be the way it works.

So, if you initiate combat outside of turn based mode, your attack gets counted in the first turn, but inside of it becomes a separate turn from the combat entirely. It's a shame so many people accused you of lying or whatever instead of thinking about it more deeply.

[ZexxCrine]

Originally posted by angelsenvy228:

Originally posted by ZexxCrine:

not my question. complete non-sequitur

Yep! I just tested it, out of turn based mode my action is gone, start from inside turn based mods and my action is refunded! Good to know :) My guess is that in turn based mode, you attack and then combat starts creating a new turn thus new action. Out of turn based mode, I have lost my action but I can still make my class extra attack. Start from inside turn based mods, I have my action back but no extra attack from my sneak attack.

So, if you initiate combat outside of turn based mode, your attack gets counted in the first turn, but outside of it becomes a separate turn from the combat entirely. It's a shame so many people accused you of lying or whatever instead of thinking about it more deeply.

just par for the course on forums. you just hope that eventually someone shows up willing to think critically and engage with an idea that they themselves have never experienced or thought about instead of doing mental gymnastics about why what is being said can't be the case.

thank you for the clarification. hopefully this gets fixed in a future patch. turn based mode is game breaking enough as it is. it doesn't really need the extra action on surprise attacks too lol.

[robert.steven.marshall]

I feel like I noticed the exact same thing with Assassin.