Is there any lore base about black elves, dwarves and gnomes and their amount ?

[triadasoul]

Is there any lore base about black elves, dwarves and gnomes and their amount ? May be about elvish or dwarvish slave trade with Katashaka continent. Actually I thought that dwarven race mixture with any other race was impossible in DND. I understand the game is woke as ♥♥♥♥ - but I demand some lore base on that very topic!

[Omario]

Messaggio originale di 🔥Marcus Aurelius Bello🔥:

Of course there isn't, this was all done to "give a little more, that's all we ask" to the majority masses of the world that want to constantly appropriate our European culture/folklore and assuming Norse folklore elves were indeed real at point in time then it is appropriating their entire race.

I am so sick and tired of this, if the shoe were on the other foot...if we did that, if we made white any of THEIR folklore races, not only would we never hear the end of it, but be branded supremacists for trying to white wash everything.

I'll see if I can mod this so that there are strictly a single elven race and 3 ethnicities, High, Wood, Dark, not 9 if you add black and asian looking ones for each and every one.

Believe me mate, you are not the only one sick of this rubbish.

[Murderhobo]

Messaggio originale di Razorblade:

Even if DnD was heavily invested in a culture's mythology, which it is absolutely not, why not be the better person if everyone else gatekeeping their culture bothers you so much?

Not in the case of Faerun, which was invented by a Canadian and is therefore pretty diverse by default, but in the case of overall Mythology I disagree that gatekeeping is bad, since it is an insult to the people that birthed said mythology.

And Lord of the Rings belongs to English culture more strictly. I'm not an Anglosaxon and I do enjoy his works, but I understand his points are strictly embeded in a set of values that belong to a people and make their work fail when they are uprooted (Rings of Power).

[cfehunter]

Messaggio originale di triadasoul:

Is there any lore base about black elves, dwarves and gnomes and their amount ? May be about elvish or dwarvish slave trade with Katashaka continent. Actually I thought that dwarven race mixture with any other race was impossible in DND. I understand the game is woke as ♥♥♥♥ - but I demand some lore base on that very topic!

Forgotten realms isn't medieval fantasy. It's a stone soup mix of basically everything and it has many peoples from different worlds and entirely different planes of existence.
Skin colour is absolutely meaningless in this setting.

[Murderhobo]

Messaggio originale di videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:

I disagree, we should call that out as something done in ignorance and lambast it all the same. That does appear to be a mistake on the part of the developers. Likely an actual mistake since they might not have read the details on the setting, it wasn't as easy to get back then, but a mistake nontheless.

We didn't know much of Rashemen back in AD&D, true, but Dynaheir being black is kinda codified in canon now, even though she would stand out in a Wychlaran reunion like a sore thumb.

I just imagine her "sisters" all falling silent after she enters the room and looking around uncomfortably.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Messaggio originale di cfehunter:

Messaggio originale di triadasoul:

Is there any lore base about black elves, dwarves and gnomes and their amount ? May be about elvish or dwarvish slave trade with Katashaka continent. Actually I thought that dwarven race mixture with any other race was impossible in DND. I understand the game is woke as ♥♥♥♥ - but I demand some lore base on that very topic!

Forgotten realms isn't medieval fantasy. It's a stone soup mix of basically everything and it has many peoples from different worlds and entirely different planes of existence.
Skin colour is absolutely meaningless in this setting.

I disagree, it has people of different worlds. Some of those people are predominantly or exclusively white due to the environment forced on them, and others predominantly black. I think that should be respected when possible.

[Toblm]

Messaggio originale di videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:

Messaggio originale di cfehunter:

Forgotten realms isn't medieval fantasy. It's a stone soup mix of basically everything and it has many peoples from different worlds and entirely different planes of existence.
Skin colour is absolutely meaningless in this setting.

I disagree, it has people of different worlds. Some of those people are predominantly or exclusively white due to the environment forced on them, and others predominantly black. I think that should be respected when possible.

You get to disagree. And you can run that at your table.
Thats not how all DMs, or in this case Game Developers interpret things and their interpretation is just as valid as yours.

[Cernunnos]

Messaggio originale di cfehunter:

Messaggio originale di triadasoul:

Is there any lore base about black elves, dwarves and gnomes and their amount ? May be about elvish or dwarvish slave trade with Katashaka continent. Actually I thought that dwarven race mixture with any other race was impossible in DND. I understand the game is woke as ♥♥♥♥ - but I demand some lore base on that very topic!

Forgotten realms isn't medieval fantasy. It's a stone soup mix of basically everything and it has many peoples from different worlds and entirely different planes of existence.
Skin colour is absolutely meaningless in this setting.

I don't agree that it's meaningless but not in a "they should be predominately white" kind of way. It's nice for the different races in a setting to have things that set them apart both culturally and physically, if Drow were just surface Elves but underground and evil or Gold Dwarves were just Shield Dwarves but with more of a focus on trading the setting as a whole would feel less richer for it.

[Murderhobo]

Messaggio originale di cfehunter:

Forgotten realms isn't medieval fantasy. It's a stone soup mix of basically everything and it has many peoples from different worlds and entirely different planes of existence.
Skin colour is absolutely meaningless in this setting.

The specific races he mentioned, at least two of them (Elves and Gnomes) specifically come from one and only one place. Even in humans you will see ethnicities usually tied to geographic areas, although that doesn't mean you won't see them moving around a lot, which is kind of our thing in Faerun.

[Soulfighter]

Messaggio originale di cfehunter:

Messaggio originale di triadasoul:

Is there any lore base about black elves, dwarves and gnomes and their amount ? May be about elvish or dwarvish slave trade with Katashaka continent. Actually I thought that dwarven race mixture with any other race was impossible in DND. I understand the game is woke as ♥♥♥♥ - but I demand some lore base on that very topic!

Forgotten realms isn't medieval fantasy. It's a stone soup mix of basically everything and it has many peoples from different worlds and entirely different planes of existence.
Skin colour is absolutely meaningless in this setting.

It's not skin color it's race and it is not meaningless at all. Every region has its own ethnicities with its own culture and history, just like real life and it just so happen that the vast majority of it is entirely based on european cultures and countries.
And Faerun is very much medieval. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

[Neialeis]

The neat part about D&D 5E - and specifically Faerun(the setting used for BG3) is that there is...barely anything defining the skin color of races. In fact, I'm pretty sure it only really specifies Drow(purple-black) or sun-elves(bronze). Aside from that there is absolutely no lore saying those races can't be darker skinned. Though considering the extremely wide color of skin-tones available in BG3(including the ability to make a "caucasian" drow) I'd think from a lore perspective you'd be a little less concerned about "black" elves, dwarves and gnomes specifically, unless...

That aside, D&d is a roleplaying game. There's absolutely no reason to not to be flexible with skin colors unless for some reason the campaign requires it. Which, in this case, it does not.

[dlo.dirtyjobs]

Messaggio originale di triadasoul:

Is there any lore base about black elves, dwarves and gnomes and their amount ? May be about elvish or dwarvish slave trade with Katashaka continent. Actually I thought that dwarven race mixture with any other race was impossible in DND. I understand the game is woke as ♥♥♥♥ - but I demand some lore base on that very topic!

I mean... in forgotten realms Dwarves can actually have children with humans...... they just come out as ... dwarves. No such thing as half dwarves. As far as "black" elves... dwarves... gnomes..... they have been in the lore with there respective races for over 30 years.... and yes it is explained why they look they way they do but it is honestly too much lore to discuss. A good youtube channel is Mr. Rexx and his races lore series. cheers

[Cernunnos]

Messaggio originale di Neialeis:

The neat part about D&D 5E - and specifically Faerun(the setting used for BG3) is that there is...barely anything defining the skin color of races. In fact, I'm pretty sure it only really specifies Drow(purple-black) or sun-elves(bronze). Aside from that there is absolutely no lore saying those races can't be darker skinned. Though considering the extremely wide color of skin-tones available in BG3(including the ability to make a "caucasian" drow) I'd think from a lore perspective you'd be a little less concerned about "black" elves, dwarves and gnomes specifically, unless...

That aside, D&d is a roleplaying game. There's absolutely no reason to not to be flexible with skin colors unless for some reason the campaign requires it. Which, in this case, it does not.

All the races have examples given of skin colour and eye colour for the races and subraces although there definitely is variation it isn't to the same extent as humans in the real world. Also I don't think they're talking about Drow and Duergar when they mention black elves and dwarves.

[PocketYoda]

No there isn't. Its all modern social agendas being added to everything.. Deep Gnomes, Dwarves and Elves were blue.. that was pretty much the extent of it.

[Blagan]

Tolkein would be turning in his grave at these Black elves, such a sad state of affairs when the far left nazis have broken an entire genre of fantasy for inclusion sake.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Messaggio originale di Neialeis:

The neat part about D&D 5E - and specifically Faerun(the setting used for BG3) is that there is...barely anything defining the skin color of races. In fact, I'm pretty sure it only really specifies Drow(purple-black) or sun-elves(bronze). Aside from that there is absolutely no lore saying those races can't be darker skinned. Though considering the extremely wide color of skin-tones available in BG3(including the ability to make a "caucasian" drow) I'd think from a lore perspective you'd be a little less concerned about "black" elves, dwarves and gnomes specifically, unless...

That aside, D&d is a roleplaying game. There's absolutely no reason to not to be flexible with skin colors unless for some reason the campaign requires it. Which, in this case, it does not.

How is that a good thing? It's taking the very concept of different peoples and cramming it all into a mushy soup where no one has any aestetic differences. If anything it's a form of light genocide in an attempt to erase any group, fictional or otherwise, having a limited skintone owing to environmental factors. At the very least it's removing a little bit of the world richness. It be like if you made everyone in Avatar the Last Airbender have randomized skintones.

And there is a reason to remain consistent to the internal history and world-building of a fictional role even in roleplaying. Since most people dont have the time or motive to do enough research for it, and fairness to everyone, who does, when making their every character it's reasonable to just ignore it out of convinience. But, it is still negative and if you truely care about the writing within the roleplaying group your take the time to learn and understand the setting properly. I get why people don't, they value the gameplay more, but it's not like it's a joke to even care.

WoTC seems to hate the very concept of race and wants even the idea of phenotypicality in biology removed from any setting they have their hands in and that is far -far- from a good thing.