Flight is useless without the ability to hover. AoE spells also handicapped

[Noctoculus]

Probably the most apparent difference between BG3 and Solasta. Flight is effectively a more expensive jump or misty step with zero benefit. Has anyone tried using the Fly movement with their Spiritual Weapon? It's embarrassing at best.

The way this impacts AoE spells is also disappointing. The amount of times my spellcaster had to run up to enemies just to cast Fireball is stupid. The reason? The ground is uneven and you can't target the air.

I honestly don't think the game should have been released without properly addressing this obvious flaw in design.

[Noctoculus]

Originally posted by Longdick Johnson:

Originally posted by Noctoculus:

Probably the most apparent difference between BG3 and Solasta. Flight is effectively a more expensive jump or misty step with zero benefit. Has anyone tried using the Fly movement with their Spiritual Weapon? It's embarrassing at best.

The way this impacts AoE spells is also disappointing. The amount of times my spellcaster had to run up to enemies just to cast Fireball is stupid. The reason? The ground is uneven and you can't target the air.

I honestly don't think the game should have been released without properly addressing this obvious flaw in design.

Flight doesnt use your bonus action, it only uses your movement, it is FAR from useless, you are just clueless. :)

It costs a level 3 spell slot, concentration, and action to cast.

[Sentient_Toaster]

Originally posted by Insanity Factor:

Also it's been a hot minute since I played the tabletop version of 5e, but aren't Flight and Hover two completely different abilities? A lot of monsters have flight, but still have to land at the end of their movement, from what I seem to remember. So it might not be as much BG3 as 5e thing, not being able to stay afloat like that.

Not really.

5E RAW, any creature that has a Fly speed can remain stationary in mid-air if it likes, so long as its fly speed remains above 0 and it isn't knocked prone. A creature with the Hover trait, however, can remain aloft even if it is immobilized.

If, say, you somehow managed to petrify a Beholder... strictly rules as written, there would now be a stone beholder floating in mid-air. It's still a creature with the Hover ability, and the Petrified condition doesn't actually cancel that.

If a Battlemaster Fighter hits a flying wyvern with an arrow, and decides to use a superiority die to invoke Trip Attack (it's only large, not huge, so it's a valid target) and the wyvern manages to fail its save, then it is knocked prone. Because wyverns don't have the hover trait, it would then immediately plummet to the ground.

[Noctoculus]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Originally posted by Insanity Factor:

Also it's been a hot minute since I played the tabletop version of 5e, but aren't Flight and Hover two completely different abilities? A lot of monsters have flight, but still have to land at the end of their movement, from what I seem to remember. So it might not be as much BG3 as 5e thing, not being able to stay afloat like that.

Not really.

5E RAW, any creature that has a Fly speed can remain stationary in mid-air if it likes, so long as its fly speed remains above 0 and it isn't knocked prone. A creature with the Hover trait, however, can remain aloft even if it is immobilized.

If, say, you somehow managed to petrify a Beholder... strictly rules as written, there would now be a stone beholder floating in mid-air. It's still a creature with the Hover ability, and the Petrified condition doesn't actually cancel that.

If a Battlemaster Fighter hits a flying wyvern with an arrow, and decides to use a superiority die to invoke Trip Attack (it's only large, not huge, so it's a valid target) and the wyvern manages to fail its save, then it is knocked prone. Because wyverns don't have the hover trait, it would then immediately plummet to the ground.

These situations made Solasta a lot of fun. It's a shame there are so many flying creatures in BG3 and we can't experience this.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

Originally posted by Noctoculus:

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Not really.

5E RAW, any creature that has a Fly speed can remain stationary in mid-air if it likes, so long as its fly speed remains above 0 and it isn't knocked prone. A creature with the Hover trait, however, can remain aloft even if it is immobilized.

If, say, you somehow managed to petrify a Beholder... strictly rules as written, there would now be a stone beholder floating in mid-air. It's still a creature with the Hover ability, and the Petrified condition doesn't actually cancel that.

If a Battlemaster Fighter hits a flying wyvern with an arrow, and decides to use a superiority die to invoke Trip Attack (it's only large, not huge, so it's a valid target) and the wyvern manages to fail its save, then it is knocked prone. Because wyverns don't have the hover trait, it would then immediately plummet to the ground.

These situations made Solasta a lot of fun. It's a shame there are so many flying creatures in BG3 and we can't experience this.

I know casting fly spell is fun but… not sure about the rest of Solasta content.

[Patriot]

Originally posted by Noctoculus:

Probably the most apparent difference between BG3 and Solasta. Flight is effectively a more expensive jump or misty step with zero benefit. Has anyone tried using the Fly movement with their Spiritual Weapon? It's embarrassing at best.

The way this impacts AoE spells is also disappointing. The amount of times my spellcaster had to run up to enemies just to cast Fireball is stupid. The reason? The ground is uneven and you can't target the air.

I honestly don't think the game should have been released without properly addressing this obvious flaw in design.

I'm with this 100%. Countless times I wish that I could hover in this game simply to avoid difficult terrain. You'd imagine the fly or illithid telepathic ability would allow this. Alas they do not, and I've yet to find a spell that does.

[Noctoculus]

Originally posted by Patriot:

I'm with this 100%. Countless times I wish that I could hover in this game simply to avoid difficult terrain. You'd imagine the fly or illithid telepathic ability would allow this. Alas they do not, and I've yet to find a spell that does.

That's a great example of another way Larian could have approached flight. If it was really impossible or undesirable to have the 3D grid then why not make flying creatures immune to terrain and able to pass through/over obstacles without impacting movement?

I don't want to jump on the hate bandwagon, because this is only one of very few complaints I have with the game, but things like this give me the impression the release was rushed.

[Myth Alric]

Solasta which is also 5th edition, has actual hovering and stuff in it.

[Patriot]

Originally posted by Noctoculus:

Originally posted by Patriot:

I'm with this 100%. Countless times I wish that I could hover in this game simply to avoid difficult terrain. You'd imagine the fly or illithid telepathic ability would allow this. Alas they do not, and I've yet to find a spell that does.

That's a great example of another way Larian could have approached flight. If it was really impossible or undesirable to have the 3D grid then why not make flying creatures immune to terrain and able to pass through/over obstacles without impacting movement?

I don't want to jump on the hate bandwagon, because this is only one of very few complaints I have with the game, but things like this give me the impression the release was rushed.

The release was rushed. It was rushed for good reason too. First they did not expect the full release to really add a significant number to their sales as they thought they had most of their sales during EA. Second they are a relatively small team and their starting budget, even with EA purchases, was tight. They put a lot of work on it effort to dollar ratio they did exceptionally well. So they rushed up the last acts to be in as playable a state as possible, cut a few features because they couldn't finish them in time, and put out the game. Fortunately they had huge sales numbers after release so they now have funds to fix up and "finish" the game.

[Noctoculus]

Originally posted by Patriot:

Originally posted by Noctoculus:

That's a great example of another way Larian could have approached flight. If it was really impossible or undesirable to have the 3D grid then why not make flying creatures immune to terrain and able to pass through/over obstacles without impacting movement?

I don't want to jump on the hate bandwagon, because this is only one of very few complaints I have with the game, but things like this give me the impression the release was rushed.

The release was rushed. It was rushed for good reason too. First they did not expect the full release to really add a significant number to their sales as they thought they had most of their sales during EA. Second they are a relatively small team and their starting budget, even with EA purchases, was tight. They put a lot of work on it effort to dollar ratio they did exceptionally well. So they rushed up the last acts to be in as playable a state as possible, cut a few features because they couldn't finish them in time, and put out the game. Fortunately they had huge sales numbers after release so they now have funds to fix up and "finish" the game.

Well I hope they agree with my flight feedback then.

[Noctoculus]

Originally posted by RACHMANOVSKI:

Originally posted by Noctoculus:

These situations made Solasta a lot of fun. It's a shame there are so many flying creatures in BG3 and we can't experience this.

I know casting fly spell is fun but… not sure about the rest of Solasta content.

The 3D grid is the best thing about Solasta. That's the only reason I mention it. So far I've noticed the impact a 2.5D map has on spells and flight.

So in Solasta, one of my favourite things was being able to aim aoe spells in 3 dimensions. You could angle lightning bolt up/down for example. And holes in the map weren't considered LoS obstacles.

[NixAhmose]

It’s not useless, it’s just situational and no longer super busted like it was in raw 5e. When fighting in high elevation areas flight can be useful to just easily move around the battlefield or skip through hazardous puzzle terrain, although given how most characters with access to the fly spell have misty step and most high level strength based characters can essentially jump anywhere, I do think fly should lose its concentration status in this game since it’s now very situational outside of maybe non-monk dex based characters.

[Noctoculus]

Originally posted by NixAhmose:

It’s not useless, it’s just situational and no longer super busted like it was in raw 5e. When fighting in high elevation areas flight can be useful to just easily move around the battlefield or skip through hazardous puzzle terrain, although given how most characters with access to the fly spell have misty step and most high level strength based characters can essentially jump anywhere, I do think fly should lose its concentration status in this game since it’s now very situational outside of maybe non-monk dex based characters.

The situation being... what? What situation would you choose to use an action, level 3 spell slot, and potentially break concentration on a more useful spell instead of casting jump or misty step?