Gamebreaking Karlach/Dammon Bugs(?)

[Andyface]

After about 30-40 hours of back and forth testing across two different playthroughs, the TLDR is Karlach's questline is absolutely rushed and has way too many failure conditions that aren't directly tied to choices with her.

Currently the ways you can brick the questline in order of location is;

- Siding with the druids vs Tieflings at Emerald Grove (Dammon dies, quest bricks)
- Siding with the goblins at Emerald Grove (Dammon dies, but probably the only intentional one since Karlach also dips out.)
- Siding with the Tieflings but killing the Strange Ox (Dammon doesn't show up at Last Light even though everyone else does)
- Zone transitioning to Mountain Pass/Gith Creche before resolving goblins vs grove (This does not update the questlog regarding any quests except Karlach's nor does it lock you from fast travelling back to Act 1 zones to complete any other quests, but all Tieflings disappear from the grove)
- Entering any Act 2 zone before resolving goblins vs grove (All Tieflings disappear, questlog reads as "most of them will die on the road" but Karlach's log isn't updated)

Assuming he survives Act 1 and makes it to Last Light, the following can happen;

- Isolde is kidnapped (Dammon dies, quest bricks)
- You side with Shar and kill Nightsong (Dammon dies, quest bricks)
- He randomly runs out of the barrier on his own after one interaction and dies to Shadow Curse (quest bricks)

If he disappeared in Act 1 and doesn't show up in Last Light even if he hasn't died on-screen, he will also not be present at the Forge of the Nine in Lower City, so you'll be locked out of both Karlach's questline and the armor set. In Act 3 no less, after dozens of hours of play, with no indicator of such as her quest will still read "Hopefully we'll see Dammon in Baldur's Gate".

This is probably the kind of issue that needs more time to resolve than penises C and D clipping through pants, but I really hope Larian publicly addresses this ASAP before more playthroughs get shafted. Please consider increasing your auto/quicksave caches to 50 and manual saving backups.

[jcw163]

None of this is a bug or in need of a fix

[Overeagerdragon]

This isn't a bioware RPG... you can actually fail quests or render them unable to be completed. These aren't bugs; it's intended consequences of the choices you make/made

[Brian Sirith]

Bad design.

[Andyface]

Originally posted by jcw163:

None of this is a bug or in need of a fix

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

This isn't a bioware RPG... you can actually fail quests or render them unable to be completed. These aren't bugs; it's intended consequences of the choices you make/made

The issue is not that failure conditions exist, but that the failure conditions are both arbitrary and nebulous, paired with the issue that they're not documented in her own questlog. If you fail any other Origin character's questline, it'll be very clearly stated under their Companion header.

Also do check the note where he runs out into the death fog for no reason whatsoever. If you think an NPC deciding to commit suicide just to deny you a quest is a feature not a bug, I don't know what to say.

[Mosey]

I'm pretty sure all of these are intentional, and on top of it the game literally warns you about some of these choices being unwise until you're actually done with the area.

[Andyface]

Originally posted by Mosey:

I'm pretty sure all of these are intentional, and on top of it the game literally warns you about some of these choices being unwise until you're actually done with the area.

Please read my response above regarding "intentional". Karlach's is the only questlog that doesn't document failure explicitly.

[Andyface]

Originally posted by Brian Sirith:

Bad design.

I don't think it's bad design more oversight and rushed work, much like how Act 3 is. The game is still great, it just needs extra polish in certain areas, which I'm sure they'll manage over time.

[Vexenity]

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

This isn't a bioware RPG... you can actually fail quests or render them unable to be completed. These aren't bugs; it's intended consequences of the choices you make/made

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15jq3bd/comment/jv5at81/
Ah yes, because killing a "strange cow" that doesn't really tell you anything about Dammon but is somehow what's causing him to despawn is an "intended consequence".

[Brian Sirith]

Originally posted by Andyface:

Originally posted by Brian Sirith:

Bad design.

I don't think it's bad design more oversight and rushed work, much like how Act 3 is. The game is still great, it just needs extra polish in certain areas, which I'm sure they'll manage over time.

Possibly. I stole the idol. The druids said ‘Get everyone out we’re locking up the grove’. Getting everyone out meant brutally murdering everyone apparently.* So I rolled with it. Now I’ve never even met Karlach and apparently broken her quest. A companions recruitment and storyline got blocked three hours into the game and I wasn’t even aware of it.

That said before people start making assumptions I don’t mind not having Karlach. I could reload back an hour or two but I prefer the story to go as it goes. Would have benched her anyway, I have Laz. I still think that players should have more control / understanding over things that will affect their experience in a major way.

My logic is: a game is about players having fun. Say a good aligned player with no meta knowledge somehow breaks the only good aligned companions quest -without even being aware that they have done something this major- and has to reload hours of game to retcon. How is that fun? Companion storylines are a major reason people like group rpgs and you’re locking people out?

Again… it’s not cause I want her in my party. But I don’t think that this plus the fact that apparently her ending sucks is adding to players having fun with the game.

*Murdering everyone except the kids they were ready to murder 10m ago anyway. 😂

[Overeagerdragon]

Originally posted by Vexenity:

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

This isn't a bioware RPG... you can actually fail quests or render them unable to be completed. These aren't bugs; it's intended consequences of the choices you make/made

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15jq3bd/comment/jv5at81/
Ah yes, because killing a "strange cow" that doesn't really tell you anything about Dammon but is somehow what's causing him to despawn is an "intended consequence".

Did you ever try talking to said cow ?

[principal eunuch]

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

Originally posted by Vexenity:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15jq3bd/comment/jv5at81/
Ah yes, because killing a "strange cow" that doesn't really tell you anything about Dammon but is somehow what's causing him to despawn is an "intended consequence".

Did you ever try talking to said cow ?

Why are you defending this? Karlach's fail conditions are as OP said arbitrary. This isn't an attack on an otherwise really well made game and it's an entirely valid criticism. You can still have the opinion that the questline doesn't actually make sense and still like the game.

[Vexenity]

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

Originally posted by Vexenity:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15jq3bd/comment/jv5at81/
Ah yes, because killing a "strange cow" that doesn't really tell you anything about Dammon but is somehow what's causing him to despawn is an "intended consequence".

Did you ever try talking to said cow ?

Yeah, I did. Didn't mention anything about Dammon

[Andyface]

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

Originally posted by Vexenity:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15jq3bd/comment/jv5at81/
Ah yes, because killing a "strange cow" that doesn't really tell you anything about Dammon but is somehow what's causing him to despawn is an "intended consequence".

Did you ever try talking to said cow ?

The Ox doesn't mention anything regarding Dammon, isn't located anywhere near Dammon's forge in Act 1, and has no questlog note whatsoever, yet you consider it an "intended failure condition"?

[wei270]

i do hope you can play a more active role in Damon's survival. right now there is far too many ways for him to do die. This wouldn't be a problem if there are others that can fix Karlac. i can live with out the armor set, i will think of it as good job keeping this guy alive for so long, but for him to be the only link to Karlac quest feels unfair.

[AlphaVictorKilo]

Considering that I never even once knew that Dammon existed until Act 3 on my first playthrough, your "arbitrary fail states" are bollocks (especially considering I never touched last light in that runthrough, it was only moonrise towers)

Side with the druids against the tieflings? OF COURSE DAMMON IS GONE he is a tief

Side with Gobbos? (see above)

Zone transitions, as I stated in my experience above, don't seem to do anything, but simply advance Dammon into different areas based on previous experiences (I for one, always helped out the grove, coz to hell with the gobbos)

Etc etc

This isn't quest bricking, it's a fail state that is intricately woven in the world of BG3. Of course you can fail it without saying "f-you Dammon, go pound tin somewhere else"