Help me pick a build [dual wielding]

[Gloomseeker]

I have a hard time making up my mind regarding the build I want to play (I'm a chronic restarter when it comes to games like this).

I've narrowed it down to a few options (I was going to pick a Fiend Warlock 2 Lore Bard 9 Storm Sorcerer 1 but thinking about having to rely on Eldritch Blast throughout the game made me go back to the drawing board).

I was looking into dual wielding crossbows which sounded like a nice trick but I'm a bit concerned about the availability of these weapons (especially if you're not starting as a bard and don't get one from the start).

The idea is to pick at least 3 Thief levels in order to get an extra bonus action that can be used for an offhand attack.

I initially thought of a Dex Barbarian but then I found out that the Rage bonus to damage doesn't apply to offhand attacks which is rather unfortunate.

I have this concept of a Dwarf dual wielding character who wouldn't wear armour (except for bracers and boots) which I've played in games before and I was thinking how I could get it to work in BG3 and Barbarian with CON to AC seemed like a perfect fit.

I've also considered Draconic Sorcerer but as far as I can tell the AC bonus won't stack.

So here is the first build:

=> Thief 3 Warlock 1 Barbarian 5 Champion 3

Con to AC, one Warlock (Great Old One) for the fear on critical hits, Champion for increased critical range and barbarian (presumably Wildheart) for fast movement (which would make up for picking a dwarf)

And the other build:

=> Thief 5 Battlemaster 6 Sorcerer Draconic 1

Draconic bonus to AC, Thief for Uncanny Dodge and Battlemaster for manoeuvres.
(I've read Uncanny Dodge may be broken so alternatively I could go for Thief 3 Battlemaster 8).

I would be missing out on Mortal Reminder but manoeuvres may make up for this.

Or I could go for:

=> Thief 4 Champion 6 Sorcerer Draconic 1 Warlock 1

A bit more straightforward by ditching manoeuvres but the idea would be to create situations that could trigger Mortal Reminder.

=> Thief 3 Champion 3 Hunter 5 Warlock OR Thief 3 Battlemaster 3 Hunter 5 Sorcerer Draconic 1

Hunter for Colossus Slayer is yet another option that I've been considering.

I know that my idea of a Dwarf not wearing armour is a bit out there (but it's going to be absolutely hilarious during cutscenes) and I know that dual wielding may not be the best option (especially considering the nice two handed sword that is available almost right away) but I find that it's the little things that make a character memorable.

Any ideas or feedback would be appreciated (especially if I've overlooked something important).

Stat wise I plan on focusing on Dexterity and Constitution mostly since the spellcasting is going to be minimal I don't see the point in investing in Charisma. I'm still debating whether or not I should put points in Strength since I'm not sure about this character using bigger weapons and afaik sneak attacks only work with finesse weapons.

[Dio]

Origineel geplaatst door Trolleur_Durden:

Personnaly, I find the Ranger's kit a bit redundant with the Rogue and I like having some charisma and social skills on my MC, so if I had to play that build, I would go Thief 3 / Swords 3 / Champion 6.

That seems like a great late game build, but i feel that from lvl 6-9 a Gloomstalker 5/Thief/Assassin 1-4 would be better. Extra attack and dread ambusher will make short work out of at least one enemy or several smaller ones at those levels, especially coupled with the extra bonus actions from thief or the assassin abilities.

Rogues have 4 skill proficiencies and 2 expertise as well at lvl 1, so you can still have great rolls even with 12 charisma, just put expertise in persuasion etc.

[Dio]

This is how my battles went a lot of time in Act 2 with Gloomstalker + Assassin:

Set up Asterion in a sneaky spot (invisible while scouting, up on rafters or high ground). Do a dual wielding xbow shot to initiate the combat. +3 initiative from dread ambusher and regains his actions from Assassin's Alacrity. Enemies are either surprised or have lower initiative than me, which gives me advantage on attack rolls against them and guaranteed crits if surprised. Attack, extra attack, gloomstalker dread ambusher attack, bonus offhand attack. Thats 5 attacks (most of them guaranteed crits) before the combat has even started, which means I can either kill a priority target or clean up several annoying minions or spellcasters, especially when using arrows with AoE or other effects.

Of course Thief having bonus actions on every round is a lot better in a sustained fight, but either initiating with Asterion or keeping him out of combat and moving in afterwards is just an amazing way to get the upper hand.

[Gloomseeker]

Thanks for the feedback and the build ideas.

Berserker is definitely not the best pick for what I have in mind.

I really like the idea of a build that realises most of its potential early. In BG2 some of the most powerful builds forced you to play a character who was almost useless right until the very last part of the game and I never enjoyed that.

Going Thief 3 first to have the option to use the extra bonus action means that by level 5 or 6 it should start to do its thing without too much hassle.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you don't need dual wielding style with hand crossbows since the offhand attack already benefits from dexterity.

I don't know if it's an oversight that may end up being patched out of the game or if it's how it's supposed to be (a bit like the Warlock's extra attack that stacks with other extra attacks). Still, in the meantime a dual hand crossbow build would only need archery.

[Trolleur_Durden]

If you are valuing strongly the fact that a build comes online early, then I would also suggest you to go towards assassin rather than thief, because that class oneshots almost anything in act 1. And if you are not against respeccing later, you can switch to a thief build once you get the items allowing you to make it really work.

[Flushing]

Origineel geplaatst door Gloomseeker:

I have a hard time making up my mind regarding the build I want to play (I'm a chronic restarter when it comes to games like this).

I've narrowed it down to a few options (I was going to pick a Fiend Warlock 2 Lore Bard 9 Storm Sorcerer 1 but thinking about having to rely on Eldritch Blast throughout the game made me go back to the drawing board).

I was looking into dual wielding crossbows which sounded like a nice trick but I'm a bit concerned about the availability of these weapons (especially if you're not starting as a bard and don't get one from the start).

The idea is to pick at least 3 Thief levels in order to get an extra bonus action that can be used for an offhand attack.

I initially thought of a Dex Barbarian but then I found out that the Rage bonus to damage doesn't apply to offhand attacks which is rather unfortunate.

I have this concept of a Dwarf dual wielding character who wouldn't wear armour (except for bracers and boots) which I've played in games before and I was thinking how I could get it to work in BG3 and Barbarian with CON to AC seemed like a perfect fit.

I've also considered Draconic Sorcerer but as far as I can tell the AC bonus won't stack.

So here is the first build:

=> Thief 3 Warlock 1 Barbarian 5 Champion 3

Con to AC, one Warlock (Great Old One) for the fear on critical hits, Champion for increased critical range and barbarian (presumably Wildheart) for fast movement (which would make up for picking a dwarf)

And the other build:

=> Thief 5 Battlemaster 6 Sorcerer Draconic 1

Draconic bonus to AC, Thief for Uncanny Dodge and Battlemaster for manoeuvres.
(I've read Uncanny Dodge may be broken so alternatively I could go for Thief 3 Battlemaster 8).

I would be missing out on Mortal Reminder but manoeuvres may make up for this.

Or I could go for:

=> Thief 4 Champion 6 Sorcerer Draconic 1 Warlock 1

A bit more straightforward by ditching manoeuvres but the idea would be to create situations that could trigger Mortal Reminder.

=> Thief 3 Champion 3 Hunter 5 Warlock OR Thief 3 Battlemaster 3 Hunter 5 Sorcerer Draconic 1

Hunter for Colossus Slayer is yet another option that I've been considering.

I know that my idea of a Dwarf not wearing armour is a bit out there (but it's going to be absolutely hilarious during cutscenes) and I know that dual wielding may not be the best option (especially considering the nice two handed sword that is available almost right away) but I find that it's the little things that make a character memorable.

Any ideas or feedback would be appreciated (especially if I've overlooked something important).

Stat wise I plan on focusing on Dexterity and Constitution mostly since the spellcasting is going to be minimal I don't see the point in investing in Charisma. I'm still debating whether or not I should put points in Strength since I'm not sure about this character using bigger weapons and afaik sneak attacks only work with finesse weapons.

I would only do it for Rogue. Fighters and Barbarians do much better damage with Heavy Weapons.

Also multiclassing is trash.

[Trolleur_Durden]

Two-handed weapons really fell from grace in the 5th edition since they don't add 1.5 time the Str modifier anymore. Which means that now, you only get a better weapon damage dice and some feats improving that playstyle. However, the 2d6 of a greatsword translates into a 7 damage on average, which is only 2.5 points above the 4.5 damage on average of a 1d8 one-handed weapon.

Regarding multiclassing, it's certainly way less interesting than before thanks to subclasses and feats allowing you to get some features of other classes without having to dip into it. However there are still some very strong multiclassing options which are more than the sum of their parts, like Paladin/Sorcerer.

[Gloomseeker]

I'm doing it for fun, not just power, otherwise I wouldn't plan on playing a dwarf barbarian in his underwear.

Same reason why I don't really like to respec. It breaks the flow.

I've tried a Warlock and Eldritch Blast took care of everything. If I were to play a Warlock I'd probably try something different just to keep me motivated.

Take the dual hand crossbow build for instance, I suspect it takes a lot more effort to get it to fulfill its potential (5 levels for one extra attack and 3 Thief levels for one extra bonus action) compared to picking a cantrip and an invocation with a two level dip. I don't dispute that the Warlock option is probably going to be much stronger (especially if they come with 10 Paladin or Sorcerer levels) but what I enjoy in these games is trying to think out of the box and come up with an effective build.

The most fun I've had in Dragon Age Origins was with a full strength Rogue which worked really well.

I hear people say a Barbarian Warlock multiclass is a terrible idea and that makes me want to try to build one (who wouldn't rely on Eldritch Blast). ;)

[Flushing]

Origineel geplaatst door Gloomseeker:

I'm doing it for fun, not just power, otherwise I wouldn't plan on playing a dwarf barbarian in his underwear.

Same reason why I don't really like to respec. It breaks the flow.

I've tried a Warlock and Eldritch Blast took care of everything. If I were to play a Warlock I'd probably try something different just to keep me motivated.

Take the dual hand crossbow build for instance, I suspect it takes a lot more effort to get it to fulfill its potential (5 levels for one extra attack and 3 Thief levels for one extra bonus action) compared to picking a cantrip and an invocation with a two level dip. I don't dispute that the Warlock option is probably going to be much stronger (especially if they come with 10 Paladin or Sorcerer levels) but what I enjoy in these games is trying to think out of the box and come up with an effective build.

The most fun I've had in Dragon Age Origins was with a full strength Rogue which worked really well.

I hear people say a Barbarian Warlock multiclass is a terrible idea and that makes me want to try to build one (who wouldn't rely on Eldritch Blast). ;)

For a real challange go Cleric/Wizard/Druid dual wield.

[Gloomseeker]

Dual wielding clubs with the shillelagh cantrip? Pretty sure there is some synergy to be found between Druid and Tempest Cleric.

[Meowella]

Origineel geplaatst door Gloomseeker:

I have a hard time making up my mind regarding the build I want to play (I'm a chronic restarter when it comes to games like this).

I've narrowed it down to a few options (I was going to pick a Fiend Warlock 2 Lore Bard 9 Storm Sorcerer 1 but thinking about having to rely on Eldritch Blast throughout the game made me go back to the drawing board).

I was looking into dual wielding crossbows which sounded like a nice trick but I'm a bit concerned about the availability of these weapons (especially if you're not starting as a bard and don't get one from the start).

The idea is to pick at least 3 Thief levels in order to get an extra bonus action that can be used for an offhand attack.

I initially thought of a Dex Barbarian but then I found out that the Rage bonus to damage doesn't apply to offhand attacks which is rather unfortunate.

I have this concept of a Dwarf dual wielding character who wouldn't wear armour (except for bracers and boots) which I've played in games before and I was thinking how I could get it to work in BG3 and Barbarian with CON to AC seemed like a perfect fit.

I've also considered Draconic Sorcerer but as far as I can tell the AC bonus won't stack.

So here is the first build:

=> Thief 3 Warlock 1 Barbarian 5 Champion 3

Con to AC, one Warlock (Great Old One) for the fear on critical hits, Champion for increased critical range and barbarian (presumably Wildheart) for fast movement (which would make up for picking a dwarf)

And the other build:

=> Thief 5 Battlemaster 6 Sorcerer Draconic 1

Draconic bonus to AC, Thief for Uncanny Dodge and Battlemaster for manoeuvres.
(I've read Uncanny Dodge may be broken so alternatively I could go for Thief 3 Battlemaster 8).

I would be missing out on Mortal Reminder but manoeuvres may make up for this.

Or I could go for:

=> Thief 4 Champion 6 Sorcerer Draconic 1 Warlock 1

A bit more straightforward by ditching manoeuvres but the idea would be to create situations that could trigger Mortal Reminder.

=> Thief 3 Champion 3 Hunter 5 Warlock OR Thief 3 Battlemaster 3 Hunter 5 Sorcerer Draconic 1

Hunter for Colossus Slayer is yet another option that I've been considering.

I know that my idea of a Dwarf not wearing armour is a bit out there (but it's going to be absolutely hilarious during cutscenes) and I know that dual wielding may not be the best option (especially considering the nice two handed sword that is available almost right away) but I find that it's the little things that make a character memorable.

Any ideas or feedback would be appreciated (especially if I've overlooked something important).

Stat wise I plan on focusing on Dexterity and Constitution mostly since the spellcasting is going to be minimal I don't see the point in investing in Charisma. I'm still debating whether or not I should put points in Strength since I'm not sure about this character using bigger weapons and afaik sneak attacks only work with finesse weapons.

Hello!

Characters in combat want to fall into 1 of 2 categories:
1) 30 dpt
2) AoE nukers

30 dpt refers to a character being capable of hitting 30 points (AVERAGE) per turn from attacks from level 5 onwards.
At 5th level, a DW Thief Rogue is getting 1d6+3 (assume crossbow expert instead of +2 dex) three times, plus 3d6 sneak on one of these attacks for a total of 6d6+9, which is 30 points average.

A Polearm Master Dueling Paladin is getting 2d6+1d4+18, or 27.5 (close enough to 30 when you factor in the odd smite or having a +1 weapon).

Eldritch Blastlock is getting 2d10+2d6+8 or 26 as a base (there's a special armour in game to buff this to the requisite 30). You can also take 2 levels of Lock then the rest in either Bard or Sorcerer and fall into both categories after 7th level. (sorc = more fireballs, bard = spiritual weapon access)

The 30 dpt category doesn't take into account how many ways there are to get +1 here, +2 there or a +1d4 bonus from magical items to each attack roll.

My personal recommendation is:
Rogue X / Fighter 1. Get to Rogue 5 then take Fighter 1 for the Archery style and +2 to hit. Then finish Rogue to 11 for reliable talent and 6d6 sneak dice. Since Rogue 10 is a free feat/asi you can be crossbow expert and dex 20 by char level 11.

If that's not to your style and you wanna be melee, then take the Polearm Master Dueling Paladin (you can do it as Fighter if you'd rather, but I would go paladin for the aura to saves and resistance to spell damage from ancients oath, plus shield of faith).

For a full party you can consider:
1) Bardlock - Lore Bard 3 then Warlock 2 before Bard to 10. Lore Bard lets you take Fireball and Spriitual Weapon at 6th (8th level char).
2) Ftr Rog - 1 level of fighter for Archery Style and Shield proficiency and the rest in Rogue for sneak damage.
3) PAM Pally - at 9th level you get crusader's mantle, which is nice with your 2 attack-focused chars.
4) Cleric - Tempest is good, but you might also want to be Light for fireball since your bardlock wont get it until 8th.

Btw - Bardlock as the main covers charisma skills with expertise
Cleric covers wisdom skills
Ftr Rogue covers dex skills AND int skills (Gale has the sage background and does this role well)
PAM Pally doesn't care about skills (can be fighter if you prefer. I like Lae'zel in this role because of Githyanki jump ability is invaluable at times).

This setup is flexible in that you can replace the Ftr/Rog with a Wizard if you want more nuking and less regular damage per turn. Just remember if you do that to put expertise into sleight of hand for your Bardlock.

[Solar]

Origineel geplaatst door Trolleur_Durden:

... Dual-wielding hand crossbows is a pretty interesting concept, but to make the most out of it, you will need the Thief bonus action and two fighting styles, Archery and Two-weapon fighting.

I read that dual hand x-bow is not impacted by 'Two-weapon fighting'?
Can someone confirm this?

[Flushing]

Origineel geplaatst door Gloomseeker:

Dual wielding clubs with the shillelagh cantrip? Pretty sure there is some synergy to be found between Druid and Tempest Cleric.

You can dual wield the quarterstaffs, and there are many magic ones with great stats.

[Gloomseeker]

Origineel geplaatst door Flushing:

Origineel geplaatst door Gloomseeker:

Dual wielding clubs with the shillelagh cantrip? Pretty sure there is some synergy to be found between Druid and Tempest Cleric.

You can dual wield the quarterstaffs, and there are many magic ones with great stats.

So it's not much of a challenge then. Wisdom for spells and attacks for both Druid and Cleric and there may be a Wizard's passive ability that can be of use (like the Necromancer's Grim Harvest).

[Quillithe]

Origineel geplaatst door Meowella:

30 dpt refers to a character being capable of hitting 30 points (AVERAGE) per turn from attacks from level 5 onwards.
At 5th level, a DW Thief Rogue is getting 1d6+3 (assume crossbow expert instead of +2 dex) three times, plus 3d6 sneak on one of these attacks for a total of 6d6+9, which is 30 points average.

Not DW but throwing stuff is broken enough you can get to 30 damage per turn minimum at level 5. Heck, get some elevation and you can do 30 damage per turn rolling critical misses.

[Flushing]

Origineel geplaatst door Quillithe:

Origineel geplaatst door Meowella:

30 dpt refers to a character being capable of hitting 30 points (AVERAGE) per turn from attacks from level 5 onwards.
At 5th level, a DW Thief Rogue is getting 1d6+3 (assume crossbow expert instead of +2 dex) three times, plus 3d6 sneak on one of these attacks for a total of 6d6+9, which is 30 points average.

Not DW but throwing stuff is broken enough you can get to 30 damage per turn minimum at level 5. Heck, get some elevation and you can do 30 damage per turn rolling critical misses.

Can you throw Everburn at someone and does it hurt? Seems cool because enraged throw is a bonus action, right?

So you can do a hefty main attack on an enemy and then still launch something (or them) at something else.