Dame Aylin might be the most annoying Character in the history of D&D

[Maverick56]

Like I don't know who wrote her, and I'll try not to spoil anything but HOLY CRAP.

From the moment you save her, she flips a switch goes full main character mode, steals the spotlight, and then when all is said and done...she bashes you over the head with the subtlety and tact of a wrecking ball, and basically is like "Hey guess what, I'm a lesbian, do you wanna see how lesbian I am? No? Too bad!"

She is unkillable, so you can't just be like "Nah I'm good" *wooden stake to the heart*

She both acts superior (due to story spoilers) but also totally useless (We have to free her like 3 times).

And her story is inexplicably tied to the MAIN STORY (and Shadowhearts) SO YOU ARE FORCED TO DEAL WITH HER.


Edit 1: To all the people who are calling me a Homophobe. Notice how I have...no issue with Isobel? Because she acts like a normal person...

Edit 2: "Well she was locked in a prison and forced to die for hundreds of years" is not a defense for her being annoying. You can easily make a character have tragic, emotional, and difficult motivations, without making them annoying.

[seandeven]

Originally posted by xray:

Originally posted by Goatmanpig:

See I don't see her as acting like a Paladin, she honestly comes off more as a hypocrite at times when you view her as a Paladin especially after beating Thorm.

Let's compare her to another "paladin" from another universe. Pelinal Whitestrake from the Elder scrolls. Read his dialogue, he fights out of zealotry and wisdom. Dame fought out of personal feeling, and for a lover. Nowhere in her rage does she mention her religious allegiance. She's a hypocrite and a terrible example of a "paladin."

Let's compare.
First. I'd go Oathbreaker chained up as someones immortality battery.
Second. Church of Selune is one of strong females.
Third. She does not need to announce her religious allegiances she's as announced the angel Dame Aylin, Selunes daughter (I'm sure there's an angel catalogue at some temple in the realms.)

[xray]

Originally posted by seandeven:

Originally posted by xray:

Let's compare her to another "paladin" from another universe. Pelinal Whitestrake from the Elder scrolls. Read his dialogue, he fights out of zealotry and wisdom. Dame fought out of personal feeling, and for a lover. Nowhere in her rage does she mention her religious allegiance. She's a hypocrite and a terrible example of a "paladin."

Let's compare.
First. I'd go Oathbreaker chained up as someones immortality battery.
Second. Church of Selune is one of strong females.
Third. She does not need to announce her religious allegiances she's as announced the angel Dame Aylin, Selunes daughter (I'm sure there's an angel catalogue at some temple in the realms.)

I don't know what you're getting at, besides your third point. I'll clarify, nowhere in her murderous rage does she act zealous. Read her dialogue, it's rage out of personal feeling, not zealotry. Her lack of verbal zealotry in bouts of anger shows who she really is aligned with (herself and her lover)

[Odyssey]

Originally posted by EbenezerSlack:

My first impressions of the Aylin character were amusingly numb – ie, the individual clearly had the body of a man. The legs were a man’s legs as were the arms. I’m not trying to be ‘provocative’, I’m just making a logical observation. I didn’t think it was ‘wrong’, nor a sign of wokism or anything like that.

It doesn’t matter to me if that’s how the character is to be physically portrayed.

What struck me as weird was that she was referenced as a ‘genius’ out of the blue, after just a few lines.

As in, I lol’d, that’s all.

Next up we have her ‘character development’ with stage 1 Ketheric. Some mild spoilers to reveal, so I’ll add the tags.


So her lover Isobel is the daughter of Ketheric. Ok.

I’ve seen a few remarks where there’s some cliché ‘lesbian’ thing going on, where the ‘evil’ old white man is trying to keep his daughter away from the ‘lesbian’. I can’t say it makes any sense. However, I would be interested to hear from an actual lesbian if this is a ‘thing’. If so, that would make for some interesting fiction.

I’ve just got to the part where ‘final form’ Ketheric dies, and Aylin just goes mental out of the blue, kicking his head in over and over and over, crying – literally – ‘villian!’

The scene above paints Aylin as a lunatic, absolutely mental. I mean, the dude is dead – we can just move on. But no, she has to jump up and down on his skull, shrieking he’s a villain.

I lost all respect for the character immediately and just thought of all the hysterical/unhinged individuals online who call people ‘insane’ or ‘incels’ or ‘bigots’ for not being onboard with certain ways of thinking.

Essentially, I’m only at the start of this person’s character development, and she seems like a proper fruitcake. I now understand the comments the OP makes, and I’m also fascinated to see how much more insane it may get from here.

wouldnt you go mental on someone who kept you bound for god knows how long and by using you as a battery made himself immortal? i think he rage is somewhat justified especially with how many heinous ♥♥♥♥ the man has done, i think she should have been a berserker given her rage reminded me of karlachs, plus he did it twice, the game never explains exactly the tole the battery mode took on her, but it must have been extremely unpleasant.

the actual thread topic tho while i liked the origin characters i found most if not all of them annoying. tbh the i really only like three of the characters, shadowheart, karlach and Jaheira. everyone else i could care less for. i just wished sh story didnt have a huge role in the overall story though or at least felt like it did. i much would have preferred all origins characters stories to be a little bit of the main game and to not actual be playable characters

[seandeven]

Originally posted by xray:

Originally posted by seandeven:

Let's compare.
First. I'd go Oathbreaker chained up as someones immortality battery.
Second. Church of Selune is one of strong females.
Third. She does not need to announce her religious allegiances she's as announced the angel Dame Aylin, Selunes daughter (I'm sure there's an angel catalogue at some temple in the realms.)

I don't know what you're getting at, besides your third point. I'll clarify, nowhere in her murderous rage does she act zealous. Read her dialogue, it's rage out of personal feeling, not zealotry.

Her zealotry is who she is as a celestial of selune is all I'm getting at, she's selunes angel not selune's human, Selune tend towards chaotic (moon, good lycanthropes and navigators). She passes judgements and Acts swiftly.

[Jimmy]

just give her to the wizard

[Ka-mai19]

Can't you kill her with Shadowheart? You can also have her enslaved by the wizard in Baldur's gate, too.

[seandeven]

Originally posted by Jimmy:

just give her to the wizard

Use her to kill the wizard and get his toys and the chests on the pillars below you is always an option as well.

[Subnero]

Why do you people always act like you aren't playing an RPG? You are given 2 different chances to completely ♥♥♥♥ her over if you want. If she annoys you that much then use those chances to make her suffer and get rid of her.
People still need to be told that they control the buttons that they press.

[xray]

Originally posted by seandeven:

Originally posted by xray:

I don't know what you're getting at, besides your third point. I'll clarify, nowhere in her murderous rage does she act zealous. Read her dialogue, it's rage out of personal feeling, not zealotry.

Her zealotry is who she is as a celestial of selune is all I'm getting at, she's selunes angel not selune's human, Selune tend towards chaotic (moon, good lycanthropes and navigators). She passes judgements and Acts swiftly.

I see what you're saying. Her zealous should be represented more through her verbal rage so she wouldn't be so misunderstood, but so she would also be more extraordinary. Any religious zeal in real history is actually demonstrated through their words, not just their deeds. Look at Pope Urban ii's speech for the First Crusade; it is an excellent example of how zealotry should be represented in paladins.

[Rommel]

Originally posted by Maverick56:

Like I don't know who wrote her, and I'll try not to spoil anything but HOLY CRAP.

From the moment you save her, she flips a switch goes full main character mode, steals the spotlight, and then when all is said and done...she bashes you over the head with the subtlety and tact of a wrecking ball, and basically is like "Hey guess what, I'm a lesbian, do you wanna see how lesbian I am? No? Too bad!"

She is unkillable, so you can't just be like "Nah I'm good" *wooden stake to the heart*

She both acts superior (due to story spoilers) but also totally useless (We have to free her like 3 times).

And her story is inexplicably tied to the MAIN STORY (and Shadowhearts) SO YOU ARE FORCED TO DEAL WITH HER.


Edit 1: To all the people who are calling me a Homophobe. Notice how I have...no issue with Isobel? Because she acts like a normal person...

Edit 2: "Well she was locked in a prison and forced to die for hundreds of years" is not a defense for her being annoying. You can easily make a character have tragic, emotional, and difficult motivations, without making them annoying.

Play as a female and she'll love you long time.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EKqDCFcIck&pp=ygUMbWUgc28gaG9ucm55

[LexingtonSeal]

The person who can respect the dead, no matter who they were in life, demonstrates self-control and dignity, especially if the dead person was a source of menace to the individual. The person who jumps up and down on the dead while shrieking insults is, effectively, insane.

And while being caged and tortured for 100 of years would justify insanity, the issue is that prior to this she is presented as level-headed.

Ie – her mild reaction upon being freed: ‘Balthazar has drawn his last rancid breath. A pity it was not my hand that brought it about. Instead it was you’.

She comes off as very nonplussed about the whole thing. But besides that, she is extremely coherent for someone whose mind should be in ruins at this point. All of her subsequent dialogue is similarly ‘sane’.

So when she starts jumping up and down on the dead guy, it’s the kind of overreaction/tantrum you’d expect from a damaged teen.

Chiefly, the issue here is the really, really bad writing. Emotionally tepid reactions to extreme situations (being freed after 100 of years of torture) and emotionally explosive reactions that have no convincing build up in the dialogue.

I also now understand the other thread about the Orin character. I’m not going to reveal any plot, so no need for tags – but so far, she is depicted as a complete looney tune, who never appears to make any sense and has lines so bad that even the other voice actors seem to lose confidence during any follow-up dialogue.

I’m intrigued to know if the writing deteriorates any further, or if it’s saved as I start Act 3…

[Maverick56]

Originally posted by Valtaya:

Well she was tortured and killed by him over and over and over again for hundred years, he captured her and told Isobel she died, despite knowing HE captured her, violating so many things. Of course Aylin would mentaly break, actualy a wonder she is still that sane. Letting it out by stomping on the head so much is "understandable". She calms down during the rest of the adventure.

And do not forget, she is a paladin, the daughter of a goddess, that is a special form of lunatic right there :D

To clarify, Aylin is not aware of Isobel's status (be it alive, dead, or anything Ketheric told her) until after the fight is over. So using that information as an excuse for her going all "Unga bunga SMASH" on a guy who in my fight...I was pretty close to talk-no-jutsu-ing out of fighting (I literally avoided the entire first phase by convincing him not to fight).

Only to have Aylin break out and scream "Villain!" why curb stomping his head was dumb as ♥♥♥♥.

Also it isn't just Ketheric, later in Act 3 against Lorroakan instead of actually acting like a "genuis" as she is described and figuring out a way to share her immortality with Isobel...or anyone else, she cracks his back out of sheer rage like he is a glowstick.

Bare in mind that she has ZERO interaction with this person prior to meeting him, no backstory, no 100 years of imprisonment and constant death.

So frankly imo Aylin is poorly written regardless of the circumstances, touted as things she isn't, and acts more like a brain dead barbarian then a paladin of a Chaotic Good deity...

[Axis of Lint]

Originally posted by Maverick56:

Like I don't know who wrote her, and I'll try not to spoil anything but HOLY CRAP.

From the moment you save her, she flips a switch goes full main character mode, steals the spotlight, and then when all is said and done...she bashes you over the head with the subtlety and tact of a wrecking ball, and basically is like "Hey guess what, I'm a lesbian, do you wanna see how lesbian I am? No? Too bad!"

She is unkillable, so you can't just be like "Nah I'm good" *wooden stake to the heart*

She both acts superior (due to story spoilers) but also totally useless (We have to free her like 3 times).

And her story is inexplicably tied to the MAIN STORY (and Shadowhearts) SO YOU ARE FORCED TO DEAL WITH HER.


Edit 1: To all the people who are calling me a Homophobe. Notice how I have...no issue with Isobel? Because she acts like a normal person...

Edit 2: "Well she was locked in a prison and forced to die for hundreds of years" is not a defense for her being annoying. You can easily make a character have tragic, emotional, and difficult motivations, without making them annoying.

1) You don't have to deal with her depending on how you play through the game.
2) I thought she was hilarious and her writing was fine.
3) Your choice to ignore the effect that her imprisonment might have had on her psyche doesn't make any discussion around that invalid.

[Recjawjind]

Originally posted by Maverick56:

To clarify, Aylin is not aware of Isobel's status (be it alive, dead, or anything Ketheric told her) until after the fight is over. So using that information as an excuse for her going all "Unga bunga SMASH" on a guy who in my fight...I was pretty close to talk-no-jutsu-ing out of fighting (I literally avoided the entire first phase by convincing him not to fight).

Only to have Aylin break out and scream "Villain!" why curb stomping his head was dumb as ♥♥♥♥.

Also it isn't just Ketheric, later in Act 3 against Lorroakan instead of actually acting like a "genuis" as she is described and figuring out a way to share her immortality with Isobel...or anyone else, she cracks his back out of sheer rage like he is a glowstick.

Bare in mind that she has ZERO interaction with this person prior to meeting him, no backstory, no 100 years of imprisonment and constant death.

So frankly imo Aylin is poorly written regardless of the circumstances, touted as things she isn't, and acts more like a brain dead barbarian then a paladin of a Chaotic Good deity...

Idk if you realized but Lorroakan was lying to her about sharing her immortality. That really doesn't take a "genius" to figure out. He was trying to get the jump on her, cracking him like a glowstick is 100% deserved.

[Maverick56]

Originally posted by EbenezerSlack:

I’m intrigued to know if the writing deteriorates any further, or if it’s saved as I start Act 3…

So...prepare for disappointment.

Act 3 basically lost at least 30% of its content due to the pushed release. There is so much content cut in fact that it often breaks dialogue, messes with the world state, and makes really feel off. On top of there not being more then 2 endings. (2 endings with some small varieties, not including...having Gale explode)

Act 3 is a buggy, unfinished mess at the moment.