I never understood casters in D&D games...

[Aspera]

ever since the first BG and Neverwinter game... what is the point of casters? They start so weak, only able to use their chosen spells once? If you level you can cast twice... etc... But... Why should I choose a caster over a Fighter or ranger, which get their attacks every round?

Roast me for it idc :) I just want to know! ELI5!

I wanted to start my first char, the leader, as a sorcerer for deception/intimidation/persuasion ... but I quickly realized it's another typical d&d game where I only get tot use my spell once, at least at the start. It's such a bummer. Please convince me that they get much more powerfull, or I'm missing something.

Thanks <3

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Lil' Botchling:

I never understood casters in D&D games...
ever since the first BG and Neverwinter game... what is the point of casters? They start so weak, only able to use their chosen spells once? If you level you can cast twice... etc... But... Why should I choose a caster over a Fighter or ranger, which get their attacks every round?

Roast me for it idc :) I just want to know! ELI5!

I wanted to start my first char, the leader, as a sorcerer for deception/intimidation/persuasion ... but I quickly realized it's another typical d&d game where I only get tot use my spell once, at least at the start. It's such a bummer. Please convince me that they get much more powerfull, or I'm missing something.

Thanks <3

A caster can deal effective so much damage in one go to entire hordes of enemies and support the fighters and archers to become double and more as powerful - you really should not go without a caster unless you do not care about that.

[Aspera]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Originally posted by Lil' Botchling:

I never understood casters in D&D games...
ever since the first BG and Neverwinter game... what is the point of casters? They start so weak, only able to use their chosen spells once? If you level you can cast twice... etc... But... Why should I choose a caster over a Fighter or ranger, which get their attacks every round?

Roast me for it idc :) I just want to know! ELI5!

I wanted to start my first char, the leader, as a sorcerer for deception/intimidation/persuasion ... but I quickly realized it's another typical d&d game where I only get tot use my spell once, at least at the start. It's such a bummer. Please convince me that they get much more powerfull, or I'm missing something.

Thanks <3

A caster can deal effective so much damage in one go to entire hordes of enemies and support the fighters and archers to become double and more as powerful - you really should not go without a caster unless you do not care about that.

But... That is much later on, when leveled and geard, right? Or am I missing something?

edit: I started with the dark urge as a tiefling sorcerer for charisma leadership options mainly... But 5 minutes in I alrdy regret it since I can only cast once and then forced to use xbow?

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by Lil' Botchling:

Originally posted by アンジェル:

A caster can deal effective so much damage in one go to entire hordes of enemies and support the fighters and archers to become double and more as powerful - you really should not go without a caster unless you do not care about that.

But... That is much later on, when leveled and geard, right? Or am I missing something?

Nope, you're not missing anything. Casters exist to support martials, that's it.

Yes, they can also deal damage, but small amounts compared to what casters can do.

[The Bee]

Originally posted by Lil' Botchling:

ever since the first BG and Neverwinter game... what is the point of casters? They start so weak, only able to use their chosen spells once? If you level you can cast twice... etc... But... Why should I choose a caster over a Fighter or ranger, which get their attacks every round?

Roast me for it idc :) I just want to know! ELI5!

I wanted to start my first char, the leader, as a sorcerer for deception/intimidation/persuasion ... but I quickly realized it's another typical d&d game where I only get tot use my spell once, at least at the start. It's such a bummer. Please convince me that they get much more powerfull, or I'm missing something.

Thanks <3

Think of it like an investment. I’m currently running and playing a DnD campaign and in both there is someone who is martial who feels under powered. Not because the martial class is bad but because the aoe spell and damage potential is very high. The longer you go the more exponential your caster power grows compared to a more linear martial growth. Yes at the beginning it can suck a little to be squishy caster, but even then I’ve found that one well placed thunderwave can easily end a battle and make you MVP.

[Favonius]

In DnD (and in many RPG) spellcasters have a different progression curve than fighters. They start under-powered and end up over-powered.
In BG3 if you use a spellcaster as Tav, you will certainly need, at least at the beginning,
- More frequent long rests (not a problem usually)
- Choose dialogue instead of raw fight to solve situations
At higher level, spellcasters have crowd control spells, AoE spells so directly or indirectly they deal more damage. Plus support spells to improve the fighters capabilities (haste etc). But that"s a question of combination of classes : spellcasters really make sense if there's at least one melee fighter. If Tav is a sorcerer, you would probably let Gale at camp...

[1337_h4x0r_xXx_deathlord666_xXx]

Originally posted by Lil' Botchling:

Originally posted by アンジェル:

A caster can deal effective so much damage in one go to entire hordes of enemies and support the fighters and archers to become double and more as powerful - you really should not go without a caster unless you do not care about that.

But... That is much later on, when leveled and geard, right? Or am I missing something?

Scorching Ray is a second level spell, meaning you can get it on Level 3.
It causes 3x 2d6 (6d6 dmg) on up to 3 targets.
Sleet storm: Causes Ice, which can knock enemies prone in a 30ft radius.
On casting everyone in that radius has to make a save or is knocked prone.
The Area is also difficult terrain, ie everyone moves at half speed...
Level 3 spell, you get it at level 5...There's no limit on how many targets it can affect, as long as they are in the area...How many Fighter Skills can theoretically push like 30 People Prone and cause Difficult terrain?
Also when thinking in fighter terms Slot spells are the big special attacks, while Cantrips are your normal weapon swings.

[Thomas D.]

Different things:
AOE, Crowd Control, Buffs, Debuffs, thats the main advantages of casters.

But you can build Casters (especially in BG3) that can do several things per Round (especially Sorcerer and Sorcerer Multi Classes). Or Casters that can attack multiple enemies and cast for ever (for example Warlock). You even can combine both and do like 9 Rays per round where each Ray does comparable damage to a Fighter or Ranger.

Btw. Ranger is probably the worst class in the game...

The two main reasons to play a spell caster are probably:
1. You like Magic and want to play a Spellcaster.
2. 4 Melee Characters are meh, usually teams which are mixed melee / range (where Casters can be good), mixed Single Target / AOE (again casters) are good and where you have at least one that can also do some other stuff like CC / Buffs. Or in other words: versatile teams / group compositions which often means you have at least one caster.

I recommend you to try this build out:

Attributes:
As much into Charisma as you can (your absolute main stat).
Some into Constitution and Dexterity, all is left over and you could put in.
All other Attributes arent important.

1. Level Sorcerer; Storm Subclass, at least 1 Range (like Fire Bolt) and a Melee (like Shocking Grasp) Damage Cantrip.
(if you want to Fly as much as you want, choose a Ritual Spell)
2. Level Warlock: Eldritch Blast Cantrip + Hex Spell
3. Level Warlock: Agonizing Blast Invocation
4. Level Sorcerer: Twin Cast Metamagic
5. Level Sorcerer: Quicken Spell Metamagic
6. Level Sorcerer: Attribute Improvement: Charisma
7. - 8. Level Sorcerer (Now you gain access to crazy AOE Damage, without Warlock 2 Levels earlier)

Btw. you could start with Warlock to get Eldritch Blast, Hex and Agonizing Blast 1 level earlier but later on I would respect and put Sorcerer on Level one to gain the Constitution Saveing Throw (for Concentration).

At low levels (2 upwards) use Hex + (Eldritch Blast or at level 4 Twin Cast Fire Bolt)

The Advantage of Eldritch Blast: you gain an additional Beam every 5 levels (up to 5) plus every damage bonus is added to every separatly per Beam (so x3). Like that from gear, attributes (Agonizing Blast), and others...

And as Sorcerer you will be able to Haste yourself + Someone else (huge buff) plus you will be able to Cast on your Bonus Action, too. Now Imagine 3x Eldritch Beam = 9 Beams.

Where a single Beam could do something like:
1D10
+ 7 (24 Charisma + Agonizing Blast)
+ 7 (24 Charisma + Potent Robe)
+ 1 Lightning Charge

= 16 - 25 per single Beam
=> 75 per single Eldritch Blast Cast
=> 225 for 3 Eldritch Blast Casts (doable in one Round)

And this is not the maximum Damage you could achieve, with just a Cantrip and low Spell Slot usage...

Or something like makeing enemies Wet and Casting some lightning AOE on groups of enemies.

[Piperbird]

Because games like these aren't meant to be single player. You're meant to be part of a team. So if you want to be a caster, surround yourself with the support that lets you do that.

It's much harder in the original BG games, since you do start out with just you an Imoen for a little bit, but once you have your crew it's fine.

[Space Goblin]

For a Sorcerer the first level spells sleep and magic missile can make a problem disappear no dice roll needed.

[1337_h4x0r_xXx_deathlord666_xXx]

Originally posted by Lil' Botchling:

... but I quickly realized it's another typical d&d game where I only get tot use my spell once, at least at the start.

Also...You don't prepare specific spells...You can use your spellslots for any appropriate spells, which gives a lot more flexibility, especially at higher levels.

[Thomas D.]

Originally posted by Lil' Botchling:

edit: I started with the dark urge as a tiefling sorcerer for charisma leadership options mainly... But 5 minutes in I alrdy regret it since I can only cast once and then forced to use xbow?

Look at my post it starts with a Sorcerer, too 😁.

Buuuut as Dark Urge you usually dont get the Potent Robe which is a really great Item you really want for a Cantrip caster. But there is a trick to still get it: you have to rescue the Tieflings and keep Alfira alive (and maybe find out why Alfira usually dies when you play Dark Urge, but thats a Spoiler!).

But if its about the party face. A Paladin, a Bard, a Sorcerer and / or a Warlock are really good party faces. Paladins, Bards and Warlocks can be btw. good melee characters. Bards, Sorcerer and Warlocks can also be good casters. And you can basically multiclass between those 4 easily (the synergize well).

For example 2x Paladin + everything else into Bard is a strong Melee Character and a great Partyface.

Or 5x Paladin + 5x Warlock (in non Honour you get 3 Attacks and can ditch Strength in favour of Charisma, because you can use Charisma to Swing your Sword as Pact of Blade Warlock).

Or try the Sorcerer + Warlock Caster I mentioned.

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Nope, you're not missing anything. Casters exist to support martials, that's it.

Yes, they can also deal damage, but small amounts compared to what casters can do.

Nooooonsense....

You just have to build them right, there are some viable Spell Caster Builds that can ditch out far more damage, especially Sorcerer Based ones that can nuke an enemy in Round 1 for example...

[Shotgun Merwin]

They're usually pretty powerful in other games, even if they are limited at the start. They're not so great in this game, seeing how many amazing, pretty much spell like abilities pretty much every class has access to, which give fighters and rogues and all that the ability to instantly travel long distances so they can get right next to your casters and ranged guys and take them out on turn 1.

[jonnin]

what if it were not limited? You would be ok with casting fireball every round? Or the spells where its basically 'save or die' until they fail their roll?

it would mean gutting the spells, making them about like a melee or ranged attack, and then the class becomes nothing but flavor. If the wizard can cast fireball every round, it should do like 2d6 tops to everything in the area. Fixing damage is easy. But what about dominate person or hold monster? How do you keep from spamming those until they stick? Or summon allies, if it dies, just summon another elemental, and another, and another..?!

The changes to cantrips was huge for the class. In old D&D a wizard usually needed to be a moderately good archer or something to contribute to minor fights where wasting spells is not the best plan.

All that aside, maybe what you don't understand is:
1) D&D was designed before computers were in homes, mostly. Much of its design has shifted but it was for a role playing game, and not one where you fight every 3 seconds.
1.b) as a role playing game, the wizard might be the one to solve puzzles, read old languages, use a lever to move something when the warrior's brawn failed, etc. The party thinker contributes in many ways outside of blowing stuff up.
1.c) it used to be even worse... the caster health was a d4 per level so you could be a level 10 with ~20 hit points. Big spells could take 2 or more rounds to cast too, making you priority target with few defenses unless you precast a bunch of defense spells and wasted those slots... Or had a team defending you...

2) spells and magic were always meant to be a limited resource. If you fireball those 20 goblins that your 2 fighters could kill with ease, you won't have it in the next room where 2 trolls are napping. But if you don't use a spell on the goblins, you cleric may need to heal them or you may need to use a potion etc. Resource management was and is a huge part of the game and its meant to be done via teamwork not just one person with a grand strategy but real people figuring out what is best and reaching an agreement on who gets healed and what gets nuked and so on.

3) remember the era. Its 1980 ... who is a wizard modeled after? Gandalf was a huge source -- and what did gandalf do? Almost nothing! Fight after fight, he tags along offering pointless history lessons and morale support, identifies an item or two, but apart from the balrog he only uses magic in a fight ... two? three? total times. However D&D decided to cut the warrior aspect (gandalf carried a sword and fought with it as much or more than he fought with magic), so the class (without the 5e cantrip idea) is a bit more limited than it should have been when out of magic for the day. This is "solved" by keeping scrolls on hand for emergencies, etc, but those are even more of a decision than wasting a fireball-- the scrolls take time and money to replace.

----------------------------
do they get more powerful? Yes. In a recent boss fight, gale ripped off half the bosses health with a single hand wave. In another fight with many, many enemy, he killed over half of them. And sorcerers are even stronger.

[Detective Costeau]

It's been my experience that people that think casters are weak compared to the martial classes are assuming direct damage is the only measure of a class.

If you're expecting a Sorcerer to compete with a Fighhter in sustained single target damage- why would you expect that? That's the fighter's whole role in the game. If the sorcerer could do a fighter's job better than a fighter and still do sorcerer stuff, there's not much reason for the fighter to exist.
(this problem is what led to 3rd Edition's infamous "CoDzilla" wherein a cleric or druid could do a fighter's job better than a fighter, a rogue's job better than a rogue and so on)

What a sorcerer or wizard excel at compared to martial characters is area of effect damage, buffs and debuffs, and battlefield control. Hold Person/Monster can trivialize entire encounters if it works. A well-placed Hunger of Hadar can turn an entire fight around. Haste might actually be the single most powerful spell in the game. Early on, even a basic Sleep spell can completely disable serious threats.

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by Detective Costeau:

It's been my experience that people that think casters are weak compared to the martial classes are assuming direct damage is the only measure of a class.

This has been my experience too. Every class has their strengths. If you are mainly interested in high snigle-target damage round after round, Fighters and Rangers are the best options (rangers are really strong archers, they are a good class). Casters can buff, debuff, CC and do AoE damage. All things that Fighters and other martial classes struggle with.

If you really want casters to do high single-target damage without needing to rest after every fight, you need to be very high level or follow some very specific builds that require specific itemization etc. For more casual players, Fighter and martials in general are your beatstick and casters are your CC, buff and AoE players.