Dualwield Karlach or Lae-zel?

[Sleeper]

Both are in my party and planning for entire playthrough to the end. Seeing both characters start off as two handed, like to specialise one as dual wield. I noticed equipping Lae-zel with a greatsword she loses the Rush Attack ability, possible to to keep this and other future abilities if specialise dual wield?

[Toasty]

I suggest to specialize astarion with dual wielding... Using this on lae'zel or karlach isn't optimal... Sure you can do that, but don't complain afterward if they are weaker (on that note you can always respec so It's a minor issue in any case)

[Wuorg]

Originally posted by Sleeper:

Both are in my party and planning for entire playthrough to the end. Seeing both characters start off as two handed, like to specialise one as dual wield. I noticed equipping Lae-zel with a greatsword she loses the Rush Attack ability, possible to to keep this and other future abilities if specialise dual wield?

Rush Attack comes from using a longsword or polearm type weapon (glaive, halberd, longsword, pike, spear, or trident), so you can absolutely have it with two-handing. Keeping these special weapon actions in mind is a great instinct. So, yes, you could keep that skill if you had her main hand be a spear, trident, or longsword, coupled with the dual-wielding feat.

If you wanted one of them to dual-wield, I would err towards Karlach simply because of a unique two-hander that Lae'zel gets access to in Act 3. Though, there's plenty of two-handers to choose from, you can easily have both use them without problem. If you were to have Karlach dual-wield, that would inform her subclass choice, as it wouldn't be a super great choice for Berserker, but could work for Wildheart for sure.

Really though, either one would work fine, honestly.

[Thomas D.]

Weaker? That makes no sense. Its class dependent and you can change class. Except if you meant the default classes, then yes Astarion is better because of the Extra Bonus Action but in that case any class can get 3 Levels in Thief (even I wouldnt recommend doing this for a level 11 Fighter, because Level 11 Fighter is better than 3x Thief).

From a lore perpsective, I think Laezel would be more fitting, because she is a more skilled / trained fighter while Karlach is just more about raw power which is less fitting with a Dual Wield Fighting Style.

But if you want to use a little trick then Laezel can get the Silversword of the Astral Plane which is a Two Handed Greatsword (you usually get only at Act 3) even on Act 1. And Laezel will be the only Character being able to fully utilize it (because it needs a Githyanki to unlock its full potential).

But if you do that, you even could give both Two Handed, the silversword to Laezel and any other good Two Handed to Karlach.

[Favonius]

In terms of action economy, i think Laezel would be better : Karlach already has a bonus-action attack when enraged.
But i fancy more using DEX-based dual wielders, either with Astarion (the obvious choice) or with Minthara or Jaheira. There are two finesse long swords in the game for that. But it"s more because it"s my dope than just min-maxing.

[Namdoolb]

Fairly early on in the game you'll meet a fella called Withers. Even if you don't find him he will show up at your camp a bit later.

I mention this because for a nominal fee (100 gold) he can reset a character - take them back to character creation & change their class & ability scores....

With this in mind, either could dual wield quite happily.... depending on how much you want to change them. In fact if you intend for either of them to dual wield I heavily recommend taking them to Withers to set them up for 2 weapon fighting.

Now, assuming that you don't want to change their base class (lae'zel stays a fighter, karlach stays a barbarian) then I think the answer is easy: lae'zel.

Fighter does 2 weapon fighting better than barbarian.

[belgix]

Originally posted by Favonius:

But i fancy more using DEX-based dual wielders, either with Astarion (the obvious choice) or with Minthara or Jaheira. There are two finesse long swords in the game for that.

I've done it with Jaheira in Act 3 and she was a great supporting character to help my other party members when they were in trouble.

With Lae'zel and Karlash I'm more a traditionalist; two hands weapon or weapon & shield for fighters and barbarians.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Sleeper:

Dualwield Karlach or Lae-zel?
Both are in my party and planning for entire playthrough to the end. Seeing both characters start off as two handed, like to specialise one as dual wield. I noticed equipping Lae-zel with a greatsword she loses the Rush Attack ability, possible to to keep this and other future abilities if specialise dual wield?

Does not really matter which of them, considering you can respec

[seeker1]

The best legendary Gith weapons for Lae'Zel are two handed -- the Silver Sword/Silverlight Blade, for example. There is one she can't get normally, but there are cheese and cheat ways to get it, which is a 1H longsword - Voss' silver sword. That she could use with a Gith shield or a offhand weapon. I always give her 2H fighting stye style and Great Weapon Master; they don't HURT if she switches to 1H wielding.

As for Karlach, for a long time I either gave her a 1H battle axe and a shield so she could bash with it (this is even better with the modded Shield Master feat that lets you do it as a bonus action and not just reaction), or sometimes 2H like the Hellfire Greataxe. A shield was better for her, I figured, as she has less armor typically than Lae'Zel being a barb. Lately, I've switched her over to dual wielding, because I've discovered some awesome weapon mods that still provide their special abilities even in the offhand ... LOL.

Incidentally, I always dual wield Astarion with shortswords and rapiers. I'm tempted to put a dagger in his off hand, but there's literally no actual benefit to that (not needed for sneak attack/backstab), unless the dagger has nice properties on it, like poisoning the heck out of enemies. Yeah, he can throw the dagger, but if it's not returning, and I prefer these days to have him throw shuriken, anyway. Because Jaheira starts out dual wielding scimitars, I usually keep her dual wielding better scimitars from mods. (Belm is nice but Treasure Trove and Harper's Gear have better scimitars for her.) Alfira I usually have dual wielding "musically empowered" swords (again, a few good ones from mods. Phalar Aluve is not the only game in town now for her).

[wtiger27]

Originally posted by アンジェル:

Originally posted by Sleeper:

Dualwield Karlach or Lae-zel?
Both are in my party and planning for entire playthrough to the end. Seeing both characters start off as two handed, like to specialise one as dual wield. I noticed equipping Lae-zel with a greatsword she loses the Rush Attack ability, possible to to keep this and other future abilities if specialise dual wield?

Does not really matter which of them, considering you can respec

This. Respec them how you wish and then build on what they are then. Or leave them as is and build on them as they are. Lae'zel, if you pick for her Great Weapon fighting, will have access to a couple great Gith two handed swords, which only Gith get the psychic damage.

Karlach will do fine re-spec'ed to whatever you want. I have did her as a Paladin/Fighter.

[Mike Garrison]

If you want to max out your damage, leave them 2-handed. But if you just want them to dual wield because that's what you want (a perfectly valid thing to do), then just do it and have fun.

[Máire]

Dual wielding is not all that great in 5e, and it especially is outpaced by other abilities in BG3 where the Berserker gets a bonus action attack without suffering exhaustion at the end of their Rage.

Basically the only character who can really benefit from dual wielding is a Rogue, if they also get the fighting style from multi-classing or an item, because they can get a second bonus action attack - but even that is better with a Berserker, who can make two extra main-hand attacks with a greatsword or greataxe while raging (if they take two rogue levels.)

The fighting styles which are most mechanically competitive are great weapon master, defense and archery - they each do something essentially different from one another, rather than adding a small buff to something that everyone can do (dual wielding)

[[TG] zac]

Originally posted by Máire:

Dual wielding is not all that great in 5e, and it especially is outpaced by other abilities in BG3 where the Berserker gets a bonus action attack without suffering exhaustion at the end of their Rage.

Basically the only character who can really benefit from dual wielding is a Rogue, if they also get the fighting style from multi-classing or an item, because they can get a second bonus action attack - but even that is better with a Berserker, who can make two extra main-hand attacks with a greatsword or greataxe while raging (if they take two rogue levels.)

The fighting styles which are most mechanically competitive are great weapon master, defense and archery - they each do something essentially different from one another, rather than adding a small buff to something that everyone can do (dual wielding)

^ this.

Duel wielding is rather meh in 5e & in game.

The only time its decent is with hand cross bows when you have sharpshooter & go at least 3 levels into rogue thief for the extra bonus action which gives you an extra shot.
(not this works in game, in table top that isn't even an option)

Great weapon master & polearm master just output so much more damage then duel wielding does that it makes it not worth using.

[seeker1]

If you're looking at the raw damage numbers for generic weaponry in vanilla, yes.

On the other hand, when Karlach is dual wielding the Cataclysmic Fire Blade (with 5 special weapon attacks and properties), and the Infernal Katana (with its 5 additional special attacks and properties), well, I'm gonna stick to her dual wielding.

The only thing you need to check if you're gonna dual wield special modded weapons is pay attention to which ones have properties that are Main Hand Only. There are of course a few in which they have certain properties that are Offhand, only, though that is more rare. Sometimes you get lucky and somebody like Rosprey makes all their weapon properties usable regardless of whether it's in the Main or Off Hand.

There is also a Dual Wielder class at mod.io which can in turn use a number of special class abilities (only) when dual wielding. Sauce on top of an already amazing goose. I love it.

[Mike Garrison]

I don't see the point in bringing modded super-weapons into the discussion.

I could mod in a pair of shortswords that are +10 and do 150 points of damage each on every hit, and then of course dual-wielding them would be the way to go.

[seeker1]

They are not super weapons. They are legendary in quality, admittedly, so they are +3. From my POV, they provide Karlach with abilities she SHOULD have as a barbarian. Pounce attack, ground slam attack, cleaves, onslaughts, rushing attack, etc. Barbarians had many of these things as innate abilities in earlier editions. Dunno why even the 5E subclasses beyond vanilla for barb don't have them either. My point stands even with some weapons that are in the vanilla game, and have special weapon properties - which also work in the off hand (some do, some don't). Dual wielding weapons lets you use the properties of both weapons, IF the offhand one has properties that work in the off hand.

That statement is generically true, even for many vanilla weapons in the game.