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Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts,, & now it's time for this topic to finally rest in peace. ⚰️ 😥 No this isn't my secret excuse to use the undertaker's theme on my topic, or to annoy certain steam users on the forum lol. https://youtu.be/V6XZAK91r2w
No.. I can´t allow this thread to die... I... I ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5oVZjtm4YY&list=PLh3auu8A8vZFLbe0GbTMjBNhoPi3xXlA8&index=5
Besides... What happens once all the "secret" companions get revealed? then the entire thread will light up again anyway, so people can squeak about their favourite pets.. I mean characters.
You can build him however you want and ull do good with him being a rogue his sneak attack scales with level. In addition being a vampire he gets an extra ability to bite which is quite nice as it both damages and heals plus gives you + 5 hit and has 100 % hit chance.
Whoever puts Astarion bottom tier or even mid tier is out of their mind :) He is easily S tier companion.
If you were to make your own rogue its unlikely ull come up with anything better than what Astarion allready is. He is also an Elf which is good he gets naturally immune to sleep which believe me is handy in the early games and darkvision.
Well this list is without the worm so he would still have the drawbacks here on this list, but with the worm he is likely stronger then even a true vampire because he doesn't even burn in the sun and takes little damage from water now. and it seems to have broken his bond with his master at the same time.
Although without knowing every ones true power before they became lvl 1 even a spawn would be pretty intense to take on for any of them.
Literally everyone beats Astarion on this list. Vampire Thief doesn't mean much against warlock, mage, Gith, and the vampire's nemesis the priest. And Wyll and Gale aren't your ordinary run of the mill magic users either.
Astarion couldn't even out wrestle your character Tav and while you can say that it was to hide his true nature why would he care? What does he hope to gain that he couldn't gain from just pulling the information he needs out of you if he could. Which, frankly, he should have been able to do if it wasn't for plot armor as Tav is in most scenarios the weakest of the characters.
When I first stared playing BG3, having Lae'zel and Astarion in the same party was pretty powerful. When everyone could get the backstab bonus - these two NEVER missed their hits. You barely even needed a 3rd party member because they were just that powerful. And I play Fighter myself so we were pretty stacked.
Even tho I suck at playing mages and clerics, I would say the strongest party in BG3 right now would actually be Lae'zel, Shadowheart, and Astarion.
That being said, once you learn how to play the game, use items, use positioning, and take chances with rng, the game is easy and your party composition doesn't matter. Unless your main character is mage - I see the biggest complaints from people who play mages.
Long story short, rogue is a pretty powerful class, but I play without one in my party now and the game is still more than doable.
Very subjective. How do you measure power? DPS? In terms of mechanics it's probably Tav > Laezel > Shadowheart > Wyll > Gale > Astarion
Of the parties I've seen very very few do not include Lae'zel and makes sense because otherwise all the STR items would be wasted if not used by main. Shadowheart goes without saying due to not only her abilities as a cleric but her skills as a thief as well and her ability to enhance skill check abilities.
Wyll let's see, he has all the charmisma for ability checks, Darkness advantage while others are disadvantaged give him armor and shield proficiency and send him into the fray with darkness let him do his thing for a bit with everyone on the outside dealing with stragglers and dealing opportunity attacks then poof him out and everything is dead or dying particularly if Gale is also in the party. But imagine Shadowheart with spirit guardians standing next to Wyll in darkness.
Also Imp with poison. Also interesting things you can do with his pushing blast. He's not setup correctly stat wise or archetype wise (should be blade imo) but as a blasting warlock hes very useful particularly with mobility spells such as Misty Step.
In fairness almost any of the companions can be powerful when used correctly but in terms of what they each potentially bring to the table Astarion is last only being able to lean on some of his thief advantages for dps he is not very versatile. Bard is a better thief for thief tool stuff as is Shadowheart. There are way better archers. Far better melee fighters. Thief isn't what it used to be.
2. Karlach (Ex-direct servant of Zariel in the Blood War)
3. Astarion (Vampirespawn and potential full vampire)
4. Shadowheart (Probably agent of Selune then Shar, clearly not a nobody)
5. Lae’zel (Not a dragonrider but train to slay illithids)
6. Wyll (Dude made a pact)
I hesitate to invert Astarion and Shadowheart but I'm sure of 1, 2 and 6
Most powerful party? 10 barrels! lol
Everything here is subjective we have to base it on what we kind of know we have very little major backstory, Nor am i gonna fuss and argue over my list either but ill gladly toss out where some of my logic comes from. I wont rate Tav on this list because the lore you can make is your own as a PC its not fair to put them anywhere near this list with and endless number of backstories lol
So to restate the topic here, The worms are not involved so we cant base them off what powers they gain from that. If we look into the Lore of DnD and what we have available.
I think putting Astarion at the bottom of the list as a vampire spawn is kinda weird, they are super fast, agile, crazy strong and a scene from the game with him failing to wrestle with someone doesn't mean much (i have also failed that roll lol.) His downfall is that without the worm he is a slave to a true vampire most likely so he has no will of his own with weaknesses proper, but still would be quite the trouble for any average adventurer.
We know shadowheart was sent on a loyalty test mission so she is an initiate of whatever god she is really in leagues with assuming she could be lying, so she isnt gonna be a major high end cleric with crazy powers she is just starting out, so im not gonna place her high on that list.
Gale i feel is the wild card, because i dont know his story or what he was before this, He could have bin an all powerful wizard of the gods!!! or he could have just bin starting out but he is still a wizard. He could truly be 1 or he could be 6 on the list based on that.
Wyls power is borrowed but its still his power right now and i would have to judge based on the fact he seems to be a well known hero, his exact deeds make it hard to give proper ratings but to be well known is something.
Im not going by "most used in party" or anything weird like that, If thats the case Shadow heart gets #1 because she is the only healer and most the time you take her if you dont roll a healer yourself. I also almost always play with my brother so i pick 1 and he picks 1 follower, i often pick Astarion or if one of us is rouge wyll or gale. and he always picks shadowheart if neither of us are healers. But i have also done a full Tav party with 4 wizards lol.
He isn't trouble for anyone. Like at all. And he knows it too by his reactions to other party members when he is confronted.
Show me the things in terms of stats [go ahead list them out] and abilities Astarion that makes him powerful. Not movie potential vampires. But Astarion as he stands today.
If he is a vampire spawn the base stats for that monster and not a playable character
STR 16 (+3)
DEX 16 (+3)
CON 16 (+3)
INT 11 (+0)
WIS 10 (+0)
CHA 12 (+1)
Armor Class 15 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points 82 (11d8+33)
Speed 30 ft.
Saving Throws Dex +6, Wis +3
Skills Perception +3, Stealth +6
Damage Resistance Necrotic; Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing From Nonmagical Attacks
Senses Darkvision 60 Ft., passive Perception 13
Challenge 5
Multiattack. The vampire makes two attacks, only one of which can be a bite attack.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft Hit: (1d6 + 3) piercing damage plus (2d6)necrotic damage.
Claws. Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft. Hit: (2d4 + 3) slashing damage
can grapple the target (escape DC 13)
Spider Climb. The vampire can climb difficult surfaces, including upside down on ceilings, without needing to make an ability check.
Regeneration. The vampire regains 10 hit points at the start of its turn if it has at least 1 hit point and isn't in sunlight or running water.
Now if we are going off just challange rating and most of these guys seem to be "just starting out" not seasoned high level stuff a gith warrior has a rating of 3, Every other character would be based on their exact level, so if they are all true beginners in that sense honestly you could say Wyll would be the most experienced most likely but he seems to have spats with goblins and is likely not over lvl 5 before the worm one could assume and gale is still an unknown. Making Astarion 1 on the list 2 wyll could hold a tie with 1 but as everyone else is unkown it would be most likely
Astarion
Wyll
Gale
Laezel
Shadowheart
Based on the info given via the monster compendium i found online and the Challenge rating provided. NOW if astarion is a True vampire this entire list is blown and he stands easily at 1 for sure for sure, as vampires base hold a rating of 13 and that would obviously present a problem for everyone here including Tav lol
I however dont consider lazeal a basic warrior as she appears to have bin sent on a mission to take out the flying ship likely she is a bit higher then that on the ranks so i feel it was acceptable to bump her, and im still not dead set on Wyll being under lvl 5 but normally speaking the challenge rating would be no problem for a party of level 5s not in singular combat. I dont know what lvl Gale would be at so i need to know more but i based him at least 3-4 easily maybe way higher though who knows. And shadow heart was sent on a loyalty mission to test her thats some recruit level stuff so i personally had a hard time picturing her over a lvl 3
I mean except you listed the stats for a Vampire in the rule set not Astarion who has none of the benefits of a vampire at this time. Putting him at the weakest of the companions. Spider climb? Nope. Regen? Nope. Charm? No. The stats you mention due to whatever body skill No.
- Astarion now has less strength, more intellect etc
Prior - Str 12, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 9, Wis 14, Chr 10
Patch 3 - Str 8, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 13, Chr 10