TB Monk - when to multiclass (if at all)?

[robert.dent]

I've seen build guides for Tavern Brawler Monks of:
- Pure Monk
- 9 Monk / 3 Rogue Thief (for Ki Resonate + Fast Hands)
- 8 Monk / 4 Rogue Thief (for Fast Hands + extra Feat)
- 6 Monk/ 4 Rogue Thief / 2 Fighter
All of the guides I saw used the Elixir trick to dump STR and increase DEX/WIS
Which is best and why?

[Willow Rivers]

I did 6 monk shadow, 3 rogue gloomstalker, 3 fighter champion build. It is a killing machine.

Here is a video of the build if interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHEWPrRiwF8&t=73s

[belgix]

I've done it at level 9 with bard for role playing and explore a couple different skills/feats. At this point my party was strong enough in a way it was no longer necessary to min maxing my main character.

[Draknalor]

Some gameplay videos if you want

I use the 6 Monk/ 4 Rogue Thief / 2 Fighter for my monk

https://studio.youtube.com/playlist/PLGWAuK6_6ib3MbjHLXCTY67cN8T5eL8kj/videos

[Termagant]

While you can surely argue a lot here, i guess the best build is going for
6 Monk open hand /4 Rogue Thief / 2 Fighter.
Monk does not gain anything too valuable past 6 and the fighter allows you to use heavy armor. You can equip a shield in your offhand and leave the mainhand empty, allowing you to reach absurd armor class values.
Increasing dex isnt too valuable as soon as you can equip heavy armor, however you still get some saving throw and initiative boni.
Wisdom becomes strong once you loot those boots from the githyanki fight inbetween act 2&3.
Also, since you are using a strength elixier you cannot chug the initiative elixier, thats why rogue 4 is a good choice so you can pick alert.

[wtiger27]

Willow Rivers původně napsal:

I did 6 monk shadow, 3 rogue gloomstalker, 3 fighter champion build. It is a killing machine.

Here is a video of the build if interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHEWPrRiwF8&t=73s

You meant, 3 "ranger" gloomstalker.

But nice video and certainly looks like a very powerful build. Gave me some thoughts for future play runs to consider. Thanks for sharing.

[jonnin]

Level 6 open hand, that is when you get wisdom damage boost to punching. Levels 7+ don't increase your fighting power by much at all, just little boosts (movement speed is nice, but hitting stuff is nicer).

rogue 3 is your extra offhand ki hits, which you can get a lot of use from.
anyone with armor/shield use grants that, then you don't need dex at all and can beef up con/wis more and str potion finished you out nicely. Dex is for trying to run a 3.5 edition monk with no armor, but this is 5e and plate mail monk is a thing. If you are going to go for a dex build and no armor, grab mage armor and shield spells from something (even if you go fighter-caster flavor!).

At this point it really does not matter. After 6/3 monk/rogue literally any class can bring something to the table, you just have to decide what you want most. You already have a good wis score so cleric gets shield/armor/spells for example, and tempest (react to shock) or war (extra attacks, not many per sleep) seem reasonable.

[Helios_One]

When to multiclass depends. Monk gets its extra attack at level 5 which doubles damage output most of the time. So you don't want to delay that too much. And you get to choose the subclass at level 3 so you don't want to delay that too much either. If you're taking 3 thief/9 monk. Monk level 3 is also when you get the first damage die increase so it's best to take that at least before multiclassing.

Either you delay extra attack until level 8 and pick up the free bonus action from thief at level 5-6. Or you delay the bonus action until level 8. As ki points are limited, you are better off delaying that free bonus action until level 8.

Monk 6 however is best done ASAP because you get to bypass damage resistances.

Monk level 9 maximizes the damage die for unarmed attacks to 1d8. Where Monk level 8, you are at 1d6 for the damage die. But you can take 4 levels in another class and get a third feat. You also get more movement speed at 9 which is generally the king of all tactical games.

Monk 6 is best taken first as you don't want to have to deal with resistances if you're not using weapons. Then thief 3 for that extra flurry at level 9.

9/3 monk and 8/4 monk is practically a trade off in feats. Either ASI/other feat or more movement speak and potentially two more damage per martial arts die.

6/4/2 is practically just minmaxing for attacks per round. You'd really want to go 6 monk > 3 thief > 2 fighter for this. Flurry can be used much more than action surge so you'll get more out of the build earlier than 6 monk > 2 fighter > 3 thief. Whereas action surge is only once per short rest.



That being said. Multiclass thief is really only used for monk because Larian essentially broke the 3rd level (Larian misinterprets the subclasses feature and then breaks it if it doesn't just ignore rules entire and makes up its own in spite of how much they break things). Larian really needs to fix this.

Thief's level 3 feature as it should be:

"Fast Hands:

Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check, use your thieves' tools to disarm a trap or open a lock, or take the Use an Object action."

You shouldn't bee getting a second bonus action. Does this render the class weaker? Yes. But Thief/Rogue is a roleplaying/utility class. It's supposed to be fairly weak. It just fills a role the party needs when you don't have the 5e version of the bard.

Termagant původně napsal:

Monk does not gain anything too valuable past 6 and the fighter allows you to use heavy armor.

You don't need heavy armor with a monk. Fighter is taken not for the armor, but for the DAMAGE thanks to action surge. You kill an enemy you know will be a problem in one round and then you don't have to deal with it any more.

A feat at level 8 and an increase in damage die at 9 is fairly valuable. If running drunken master and planning to use intoxicating strike or running Larian's added gimmicks, you do get more damage at 7 and 9.

You can equip a shield in your offhand and leave the mainhand empty, allowing you to reach absurd armor class values.

Just play a fighter or Gloomstalker instead. It's pointless nontheless to even think like this. With heavy armor and shield, you might only get a couple points of AC on top of whatever you equip. But then again, the game is beaten by killing things. The faster, the better. Plus you have to forgo some of the nice late game monk equipment that lets you do even more damage.

A shield is at best 3 more AC which you really won't need in general. 22 AC is quite effective and a monk without heavy armor and without a shield can still get more than that quite easily. And in act 1+2, you can easily get 18-20 AC with the monk without even bothering with either shield or heavy armor so there's no point to even thinking in this way.

A dead enemy is one that cannot attack you. Whereas an enemy that has a decreased chance of hitting you can still attack and hit you.

But the again the playing a monk is the point of choosing the monk class. Why even turn it into a fighter with a slightly different flavor? Might as well have just played a fighter in the first place.

[twerk]

I use a build of monk 6 (open hand, tavern brawler feat), rogue 3 (thief), the rest monk. Start with 17 str, 14 dex, 14 wis, 12 con. But since I mostly just feed them str potions I could probably tweak. Also the lightning gauntlets are great and the monk suit that boosts dex.

I should probably say this is always another party member, since I use tav for a face.

[jonnin]

also, don't forget you can throw stuff for high chance to hit and high damage as a TB monk. There are times, like when you just punch/kipunch killed the guy in your face, and the next one is too far to reach...

[Moonbane]

Dont think about armor with a monk, this cloth is all you need
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/The+Graceful+Cloth+(Cat)
It grants permanent cats grace, which is permanent advantage of dex checks. Like stealth and lockpicking as well +2dex.

[belgix]

Moonbane původně napsal:

Dont think about armor with a monk, this cloth is all you need
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/The+Graceful+Cloth+(Cat)
It grants permanent cats grace, which is permanent advantage of dex checks. Like stealth and lockpicking as well +2dex.

The Grateful Cloth is effectively one of the best for the monk and I used it for almost half of Act 1, all Act 2 and third of Act 3. At the end, because buffs provided by this "armor" were not significant for my monk I found something better ... the Vest Of Soul Rejuvenation.

• Defier's Rejuvenation: +d4 hit points on successful saving throw against a spell
  
• Greater Kushigo Counter: Can have unarmed strike against any attacker that misses
  
• +2 to Armour Class.

[Moonbane]

Graceful Cloth is still better than Soul Rejuvenation. Permanent dex advantage is just too good. Plus the bonus dex is VERY good to have. Monk is very starved for stats with how widespread their attributes is.

[jonnin]

Moonbane původně napsal:

Graceful Cloth is still better than Soul Rejuvenation. Permanent dex advantage is just too good. Plus the bonus dex is VERY good to have. Monk is very starved for stats with how widespread their attributes is.

its only starved if you try to have str and dex both. If your str is 8 and you run 20+ from potions, it won't be starved, and you only have to get past the grove fight to buy potions. If you have a 10 dex and armor/shield, its also fine. If you do both, your con/wis become 16/16 at creation, leaving cha and int high enough to cast spells if you multiclass into a caster. If you only do one of the two, its a bit tighter but still more than fine.

This isn't a monk thing... you can do the same thing on like a barbarian (8 str and chug) etc.

I am not saying armor/shield is better than graceful cloth. I just said it works fine. The bonuses on heavy armor are lacking until act 3, and medium armor means at least a little dex score but there are some tricks with it like luminious armor and set fist damage to radiant.

[belgix]

Moonbane původně napsal:

Graceful Cloth is still better than Soul Rejuvenation. Permanent dex advantage is just too good. Plus the bonus dex is VERY good to have. Monk is very starved for stats with how widespread their attributes is.

Depends on how you started your character. For me, I started DEX fairly high so if buffs of the Graceful Cloth was great bonus for half of the game, I mitigated this issue over time by getting extra DEX with feats and Ethel's Hair. Advantage rolls given by the Graceful Cloth became less significant over time because whilst progressing in the game, the probability (and consequences) of failing a DEX check decreases.

[dolby]

depends on how you want to play.. With monk you can do most fights in one turn just by dashing in and out of TB combat. Most enemies can't do anything at all to fight you cos you are too fast. If you have space to disengage. So anything that will let you be faster is good!

That or anything that will give you more attacks - extra damage is good option as well


level 3 and level 5 delays are not that bad cos you can power level really easy in this game. i think i was level 8 or something similarly crazy before even starting act 2...
Thing is muticlassing sucks in 5e so you have to use respect to get the most out of it.
thief/ ranger/ fighter are the main combos.

But that was before honour mode was added no clue how that effects monks i guess they are more boring? to play cos you have less attacks.

Not sure i will ever try that just cos doing multiple things per turn is fun so why would i remove fun for myself will see if the last patch ever comes and i can get back into the game.