Question about the i-Troll presence

[superlloyd]

I can't really form an opinion since I have not lurked on that forum very long...

But isn't the angry internet troll presence becoming an infestation?
The like of which we have not seen before?

All games' steam forums I checked out are full of angry transparent trolls complaining loudly how such and such game is so bad.
I mean, I heard the internet is like that... still I have the... impression it's getting worse.
(although I have not been on Steam forum much.. so it's probably only a prejudice at this stage)

What say you?

On the plus side, there is a silver lining, most trolls are pretty obvious with their critic lacking any semblance of nuance, they only take reading space, mwahaha.

[superlloyd]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Smoove:

lfull of historical anachronisms

You'd really struggle with 80's and 90's fantasy then where there's like, a 70% chance laser guns and spaceships show up in any given fantasy setting.


Pathfinder still has them I think.

Hold on a second, hold on a second!
We've all seen that documentary.. what's the name.. ha yes, "Kung Fury", Laser Raptors are totally a real thing!

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

You'd really struggle with 80's and 90's fantasy then where there's like, a 70% chance laser guns and spaceships show up in any given fantasy setting.


Pathfinder still has them I think.

Absolutely.

Pathfinder also has Monster Hunter-esque rifles made from drakes that can shoot blasts of elemental energy, steampunk-inspired prosthetics and powered wheelchairs.

Honestly, anyone complaining about historical anachronisms in current fantasy settings commonly used in TTRPGs is basically a meme at this point.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Originally posted by Quillithe:

You'd really struggle with 80's and 90's fantasy then where there's like, a 70% chance laser guns and spaceships show up in any given fantasy setting.


Pathfinder still has them I think.

Absolutely.

Pathfinder also has Monster Hunter-esque rifles made from drakes that can shoot blasts of elemental energy.

Honestly, anyone complaining about historical anachronisms in current fantasy settings commonly used in TTRPGs is basically a meme at this point.

They carried over to CRPGs too - out of the early three long series of CRPGs of Ultima, Wizardry, and Might and Magic they ALL had science fiction elements in the main plot at some point.

Ultima in the first few mainly where you had to fly around in space.

Wizardry more in the later ones to the point that the final game has you activate orbital defenses in a spaceport, steal from an alien consulate, and disarm a bomb. Honestly it's arguable it's even a fantasy game by Wizardry 8.

And Might and Magic had it in every game (though you don't actually get blaster rifles to fight alien invaders except for a few of them - but you DO get Star Trek references constantly and chase androids around on colony ships)




Honestly I don't think the two genres were really considered separate for a long time (if they even are now) since stuff like Star Wars isn't exactly that far from fantasy. Not to mention the famous 'dying earth' and 'isolated colony world with magic and/or bioengineered dragons' tropes. Hard Science Fiction is kinda a different story though.

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by Smoove:

full of historical anachronisms

Yeah! Historical medieval European displacer beasts were more dog-like than cat-like.

[superlloyd]

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

Originally posted by Smoove:

full of historical anachronisms

Yeah! Historical medieval European displacer beasts were more dog-like than cat-like.

Thanks for the correction!
We wouldn't want to misled our reader here :)

[Cass]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by Smoove:

lfull of historical anachronisms

You'd really struggle with 80's and 90's fantasy then where there's like, a 70% chance laser guns and spaceships show up in any given fantasy setting.


Pathfinder still has them I think.

Blackwater flashbacks

[MekaDovah]

Originally posted by superlloyd:

I can't really form an opinion since I have not lurked on that forum very long...

But isn't the angry internet troll presence becoming an infestation?
The like of which we have not seen before?

All games' steam forums I checked out are full of angry transparent trolls complaining loudly how such and such game is so bad.
I mean, I heard the internet is like that... still I have the... impression it's getting worse.
(although I have not been on Steam forum much.. so it's probably only a prejudice at this stage)

What say you?

On the plus side, there is a silver lining, most trolls are pretty obvious with their critic lacking any semblance of nuance, they only take reading space, mwahaha.

They've always exist. Every game on steam has the same problem. That's why every game is a dead game every week.

Originally posted by Thomas D.:

2. Not anyone complaining, raging, whatever is a troll, many are genuine players telling their opinion, which just isn't and have to be positive all the time.

And it's pretty obvious when it's trolls and not genuine opinions. Trolls go out of their way to be very inflammatory. If they aren't outright bigots, they're making ridiculous, sweeping generalizations and making stuff up wholesale. If it feels like their "complaint" is best resolved by them buying an entirely different game, then their so-called opinion is bunk because that kind of feedback is useless.

Trolls also almost always use the same playbook. They make inflammatory statements, stating their "opinions" as fact. They elaborate nothing since their talking points tend to be something easily parroted, but require a lack of scrutiny to stand. They respond to counterarguments with insults, accuse any disagreement as an attempt to silence their opinion (because only they get to have one), and they defend with "just joking/just my opinion bro!" when they're on the backfoot.

No one's saying "be positive all the time" but giving trolls the benefit of the doubt isn't useful either.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Yes Cass, did you miss the evidence of the civilizations that existed before mankind? There were dragons flying cities, undead necropolis gathering all knowledge, elven havens with trees far higher than sequoias almost reaching the second moon of our planet, dwarven kingdoms fueled with nuclear fusion energy...
Just educate yourself for Alaundo's sake!

[Thomas D.]

Originally posted by Smoove:

The notion that someone is a troll because they think the game is Woke is frankly obnoxious and incredibly dismissive. And a veiled form of censorship, so any of you who feel that way feel free to block me. I've already blocked most of you. This game is a blast, and well made-but the politics are a disaster. It is definitely a game with an agenda and MANY PEOPLE FEEL that way. You do not have to agree, but do not tell me to shut up, you adolescent twits.

100% this and if you followed the whole discussion (I think it was on page 2) then it pretty much looks like the OP was trying to play dumb and create this thread here exactly with the purpose to trigger discussion about this and advocating for censorship, especially considering that he seem to share exactly the opinion of that woke crowd that put their agenda in the games, destroyed games and even game companies with it and now tries to censor / silence any normal thinking human being...

This is exactly like a troll post looks like (could also pick almost any of the posts in the last 2 pages):

Originally posted by MekaDovah:

And it's pretty obvious when it's trolls and not genuine opinions. Trolls go out of their way to be very inflammatory. If they aren't outright bigots, they're making ridiculous, sweeping generalizations and making stuff up wholesale. If it feels like their "complaint" is best resolved by them buying an entirely different game, then their so-called opinion is bunk because that kind of feedback is useless.

Trolls also almost always use the same playbook. They make inflammatory statements, stating their "opinions" as fact. They elaborate nothing since their talking points tend to be something easily parroted, but require a lack of scrutiny to stand. They respond to counterarguments with insults, accuse any disagreement as an attempt to silence their opinion (because only they get to have one), and they defend with "just joking/just my opinion bro!" when they're on the backfoot.

No one's saying "be positive all the time" but giving trolls the benefit of the doubt isn't useful either.

Do you even dont understand the irony of your very own post, because 100% of anything you wrote about the "other" group fits perfectly into your post. You even begin it with calling normal thinking people that start seeing the insanity in the recent woke movement bigots...

[seeker1]

Originally posted by Smoove:

The notion that someone is a troll because they think the game is Woke is frankly obnoxious and incredibly dismissive. And a veiled form of censorship, so any of you who feel that way feel free to block me. I've already blocked most of you.

"I hate censorship, so to prove it to you, I'm going to censor you!"

I have no idea if I'm on your Block list. I don't care. Maybe I am. I'm still posting this anyway.

To be clear, I certainly have a whole bunch of issues about "woke". The whole way the word is being used. The whole way that a whole bunch of people are misusing it and yet even those folks can't seem to agree on what it means other than - in THIS context - "stuff in games that I as a conservative don't like". Well, while I will admit "woke" is a shorter way of saying that, why pretend it has any other definition (for you) than that.

People call me "woke" or "wokie". So my answer to that is - yes - I meet the original 1930s definition of the (slang) term - "someone awake or aware of racial prejudice". And I will accept I meet it.

Everything else derogatory you folks associate with the term, no, I do not feel applies to me. I also think it's silly to apply it to games - whether it be BG3 or other ones - cuz for me it often seems to come down to "darnit, this game has black people, LGBT people and relationships, and strong women in it". To be clear, it's fine, you don't have to want or like any of those things in your games, but I hope you get that a lot of other people, including me, don't care about these things at all.

So ... having said all that, let me repeat another point. Do I think everybody saying the game is woke are trolls? No. As I said, I don't think everyone who disagrees with me is a troll. Only the ones who are trolling are trolls, and those are the ones I block. I use the definition of troll used at Urban Dictionary, since it's a slang term.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.
[snip][end]

Now, I will admit, I expanded on that definition. IMHO, pretending to offer a sarcastic criticism of the game which is mocking the silliness of other peoples' criticism isn't trolling, as I think it is serving another purpose beyond merely "creating maximum disruption". I have done that, and I don't think it was trolling. Sarcasm and sarcastic impersonation and mockery is not trolling.

On the other hand -- I think repeating rumors as fact and things of that nature, AND continuing to do so continually even after it's been pointed out they are rumors and not fact -- well, what do you call that OTHER than spamming and/or trolling? (Yes, that refers to the "Corinne Busche" stuff. Also, there is the deliberate and purposeful misgendering.)

This game is a blast, and well made-but the politics are a disaster. It is definitely a game with an agenda and MANY PEOPLE FEEL that way.

You are allowed to FEEL any way you want to. Claiming something is FACT requires evidence. I believe if you want to claim "Larian is pushing a political agenda," "woke" or otherwise, as a factual assertion, THAT requires evidence, which is usually lacking.

So me and CONSERVATIVES like myself will say whatever the hell we want about this game being woke, full of historical anachronisms,

That silly nonsense has already been dealt with, Even before Forgotten Realms, D & D was ALWAYS CHOCK full of historical anachronisms. Greyhawk was chuffed with such things. Gary Gygax's monsters in the first edition of D & D monster manual? Based on Japanese plastic toys his kids used to play with, NOT medieval European folklore OR Tolkien. Much of the game's rules and lore are rooted as much in sci-fi as fantasy, and to be clear fantasy has never EVER - as I've said - attempted to "historically" represent medieval Europe. A lot of other things were based on TV shows Gary & his buddies liked to watch in the 70s.

D & D was NEVER meant to be a historical medieval Europe sim. EVER.
Nor has fantasy ever REALLY tried to be a re-creation of medieval Europe. I mean, after all, Tolkien said his Middle-Earth WASN'T.

[Dimlhugion]

Originally posted by Smoove:

The notion that someone is a troll because they think the game is Woke is frankly obnoxious and incredibly dismissive. And a veiled form of censorship, so any of you who feel that way feel free to block me. I've already blocked most of you. This game is a blast, and well made-but the politics are a disaster. It is definitely a game with an agenda and MANY PEOPLE FEEL that way. You do not have to agree, but do not tell me to shut up, you adolescent twits.

I've paid for the game, and not with my allowance either kiddos.

So me and CONSERVATIVES like myself will say whatever the hell we want about this game being woke, full of historical anachronisms, and it IS buggy as hell. It's still a great game, but it is hugely flawed.

If you don't like that, I don't care. And I'll repeat myself AS OFTEN AS I LIKE, just like the liberals on this thread.

What positive effect on this world on the macroscopic level does this post have even a remote chance of achieving?

"BREAKING NEWS: the G20 convention took an historic step today, after every single representing nation agreed unanimously to pool their collective resources towards ending world hunger, restoring world peace, and celebrating goodwill towards humanity. And they all, each and every one of them, credited Smoove's post on the Baldur's Gate 3 General Discussion Forums on Steam as their inspiration for doing so!"

Like, seriously dude. (or dudette, I suppose)

You're just another rando like the rest of us.

[Amethyst_Cat]

Head over to the Civ VII discussion group and many postings are vociferous complaints about the game (sure, it's not great but nowhere near as bad as they moan on about). Seems to be the way it goes. Would be nice if you couldn't comment on the game if you didn't own it and/or actually play it for a set number of hours as the speculative negativity before a game's even been released is disappointing.