Need help with the build

[THAT GUY]

Is it possible to implement the monk's build through throws?
I really like the berserk build, through throwing enemies at each other and really like the monk build and I want to combine them to have double the fun.
Will it work if I do it this way?
Lv 1 - Lv 3: Berserk to get rage.
4 - 6: Monk, so I can choose between throwing the enemy and hitting the enemy.
7 - 10: Thief to get bonuses.
Equipment:
Returning spear/ trident/ fists
Gloves of the Indomitable Kushigo
Thrower's Ring

Will this work?

[[TG] zac]

I mean it could work, you will want to grab another 2 levels in either monk or barbarian though for extra attack.

And at the end of the day you will only have one feat.

If you are willing to mod though bloodrager with the abyssal bloodline more or less negates to need to grab any other classes besides it and thief though since it gets to enlarge on rage and gets claw attacks (which count as unarmed).

It also gets fire resist & acid resist while raging and gets some limited spell casting (can also summon explosive quasists and chuck them like grenades)

[THAT GUY]

Originally posted by TG zac:

I mean it could work, you will want to grab another 2 levels in either monk or barbarian though for extra attack.

And at the end of the day you will only have one feat.

If you are willing to mod though bloodrager with the abyssal bloodline more or less negates to need to grab any other classes besides it and thief though since it gets to enlarge on rage and gets claw attacks (which count as unarmed).

It also gets fire resist & acid resist while raging and gets some limited spell casting (can also summon explosive quasists and chuck them like grenades)

And if I don't want to use mods, is it possible to fix something to make this build really good?

[seeker1]

I think this game lacks one of the key sorts of throwing weapons a ninja monk would use, shuriken. There are mods to put back darts, which are already in the game files, but just currently unimplemented. Somebody could make a shuriken mod, where they are basically just darts, but look like throwing stars. C'mon, some modder needs to get on this, stat! LOL.

Actually, maybe you shouldn't make them darts, because it seems the funky way Larian did darts was to make them work like bows, not like throwing knives ... OK, so just make them throwing knives. Heh.

Check out this mod. Adds two throwing feats to the game and the thrown weapons fighting style. The feat gives you the ability to bind any throwing weapon and make it a returning weapon. Plus a bag of some throwing weapons, Alas, no shuriken.

https://mod.io/g/baldursgate3/m/thrown-weapons-expanded

C'mon, we've got katanas and ninja-tos, somebody's gotta do shuriken.

[THAT GUY]

Originally posted by seeker1:

I think this game lacks one of the key sorts of throwing weapons a ninja monk would use, shuriken. There are mods to put back darts, which are already in the game files, but just currently unimplemented. Somebody could make a shuriken mod, where they are basically just darts, but look like throwing stars. C'mon, some modder needs to get on this, stat! LOL.

Actually, maybe you shouldn't make them darts, because it seems the funky way Larian did darts was to make them work like bows, not like throwing knives ... OK, so just make them throwing knives. Heh.

Check out this mod. Adds two throwing feats to the game and the thrown weapons fighting style. Plus a bag of some throwing weapons, Alas, no shuriken.

https://mod.io/g/baldursgate3/m/thrown-weapons-expanded

C'mon, we've got katanas and ninja-tos, somebody's gotta do shuriken.

I plan to use a return spear and enemies as throwing objects, so it's not really a ninja. :D
I see this build as an "MMA fighter" who can jump into a crowd of enemies, use them as improvised weapons, and then beat them with his bare hands

[Lamprey Unbirthing]

I would go 5 levels in Barbarian for extra attack, movement and feat, maybe dipping into Monk one level for unarmed attacks at level 4, then finishing monk after level 7. That would take you to the end of act 1, going into act 2 as a martial without sneak attack or extra attack is a good way to have a rough time.

[THAT GUY]

Originally posted by THAT GUY:

Originally posted by seeker1:

I think this game lacks one of the key sorts of throwing weapons a ninja monk would use, shuriken. There are mods to put back darts, which are already in the game files, but just currently unimplemented. Somebody could make a shuriken mod, where they are basically just darts, but look like throwing stars. C'mon, some modder needs to get on this, stat! LOL.

Actually, maybe you shouldn't make them darts, because it seems the funky way Larian did darts was to make them work like bows, not like throwing knives ... OK, so just make them throwing knives. Heh.

Check out this mod. Adds two throwing feats to the game and the thrown weapons fighting style. Plus a bag of some throwing weapons, Alas, no shuriken.

https://mod.io/g/baldursgate3/m/thrown-weapons-expanded

C'mon, we've got katanas and ninja-tos, somebody's gotta do shuriken.

I plan to use a return spear and enemies as throwing objects, so it's not really a ninja. :D
I see this build as an "MMA fighter" who can jump into a crowd of enemies, use them as improvised weapons, and then beat them with his bare hands

The main thing for me is that it should be fun
Berserk 3 to get rage and extra action
Power at the expense of the Giant's Elixir
That will allow you to throw everything over long distances and hit well
And a monk so that you can fight in enclosed spaces

[THAT GUY]

Originally posted by Lamprey Unbirthing:

I would go 5 levels in Barbarian for extra attack, movement and feat, maybe dipping into Monk one level for unarmed attacks at level 4, then finishing monk after level 7. That would take you to the end of act 1, going into act 2 as a martial without sneak attack or extra attack is a good way to have a rough time.

Do you think it's possible to play but will be difficult?
I've already gotten through act 2 with just a single spear throw and I found it to be quite strong (without the monk class. 6 berserk and 2 Thief)

[jonnin]

It will work, its fine. Just watch out for the mentioned extra attack issue -- you can respec at higher levels if going 5 barb right off is no good for you. Also note that con/wis AC won't stack if you are going in naked.

The thing is that all this feels off. A standard str monk can throw twice if he needs a ranged attack. All that barbarian stuff is so you can throw a third time when raged, which you won't have many rages because low level. You are going to be shorting yourself on both rage charges AND ki charges just to get a sometimes third attack, OR you are going to be sleeping every couple of fights to get them back. The rogue offhands won't help: there are no offhand throwing and I don't think frenzy will grant a 2nd even as a rogue hybrid. Rogue only helps if doing melee.

A single level of monk on a barbarian grants offhand strikes that would make up for not being in rage on lesser fights. A couple of levels of fighter would let you get action surge, just about as useful as rage in terms of extra throwing in a fight here and there, and if you keep going to get arcane fighter you can have returning weapons (anything you like) and a shield spell etc.

I would back off and decide between one of these while you level up:
- pure throwing, melee only in emergency (forget monk entirely)
- pure melee, throwing only if can't get there (and a rogue monk or monk ki dash will make that rare -- forget bar entirely and go monk/rogue)

trying to have it all (3 throws, full melee capability, rogue offhand monk trick all together) is stretched mighty thin until level 12. If you try your way and no respec, then barb 5, rogue 3, monk 1 is level 9 before it starts to look like where you were going.

[THAT GUY]

Originally posted by jonnin:

It will work, its fine. Just watch out for the mentioned extra attack issue -- you can respec at higher levels if going 5 barb right off is no good for you. Also note that con/wis AC won't stack if you are going in naked.

The thing is that all this feels off. A standard str monk can throw twice if he needs a ranged attack. All that barbarian stuff is so you can throw a third time when raged, which you won't have many rages because low level. You are going to be shorting yourself on both rage charges AND ki charges just to get a sometimes third attack, OR you are going to be sleeping every couple of fights to get them back. The rogue offhands won't help: there are no offhand throwing and I don't think frenzy will grant a 2nd even as a rogue hybrid. Rogue only helps if doing melee.

A single level of monk on a barbarian grants offhand strikes that would make up for not being in rage on lesser fights. A couple of levels of fighter would let you get action surge, just about as useful as rage in terms of extra throwing in a fight here and there, and if you keep going to get arcane fighter you can have returning weapons (anything you like) and a shield spell etc.

I would back off and decide between one of these while you level up:
- pure throwing, melee only in emergency (forget monk entirely)
- pure melee, throwing only if can't get there (and a rogue monk or monk ki dash will make that rare -- forget bar entirely and go monk/rogue)

trying to have it all (3 throws, full melee capability, rogue offhand monk trick all together) is stretched mighty thin until level 12. If you try your way and no respec, then barb 5, rogue 3, monk 1 is level 9 before it starts to look like where you were going.

Yes, I agree with you.
I also realize that it's better not to combine these 2 builds, and it's better to play either through throwing or monk.
Which one do you think is stronger?
I went through almost the 2nd act on the thrower (tactics), where I did not feel any difficulties except Keterik, who has resistance to stab damage and at the moment I can not pass him by all means. It takes me an hour to get him down to at least half health when my allies are long dead and I have to fight off mobs of jets and try to deal 10 damage to Keterik when he replenishes jets' health much faster.
That's why I wanted to add a monk, so I can hit with my hand in such cases. But from the beginning of the game until act 2, I found the thrower to be a very strong build

[jonnin]

pure throwing is often stronger. If for no other reason that ranged vs melee, the enemy almost always start spread around an arena that makes melee harder, even if you can fly it can be aggravating to get to and hit multiple targets per round and a high level monk can kill 2-3 targets per round if it could only reach them all. Throwing, you CAN reach them all. In fights where the enemy can be reached in melee easily, monk is stronger. If you can live with two throws or punch punch throw type play, the tavern brawler monk is excellent, and once you have the + wis damage, you can dual class as you like.

Throwing has the super special fireball sized lighting aoe weapon, gets all the advantages of unarmed attack added to the damage (eg monk's level 6 wis+d4 damage, gloves of unarmed fire or whatnot, ..) and also gets + damage for gravity if you get some height on the targets. It also lets you throw one enemy into another to hurt them both -- you can kill stuff like the imps near the forge 2 at a time this way. Be warned that thrown returning weapons fail to return in some cases. You need a handful of old daggers/spears/etc and to get a feel for when those are needed. My thrower also trades places with the victim, regularly, which lets my team beat up priority targets easier when it happens.

[jonnin]

Oh, and that one fight... you did something wrong. I am not sure which of the KT fights you are struggling with, but he should go down in 1-2 rounds in all of the fights against him. Double check his resists and vulnerables...

[THAT GUY]

Originally posted by jonnin:

Oh, and that one fight... you did something wrong. I am not sure which of the KT fights you are struggling with, but he should go down in 1-2 rounds in all of the fights against him. Double check his resists and vulnerables...

Can you give me some recommendations or fix me in the thrower build?
KT had a problem with his resistance, because of which I dealt 0 - 10 damage per turn. Still, after a few days of testing, I was able to defeat him with the last character on the last health points, it was the hardest thing I did in my life :D
I think I will meet more such enemies and how to resist them if I only have a spear for throwing?

[[TG] zac]

Originally posted by THAT GUY:

Originally posted by jonnin:

Oh, and that one fight... you did something wrong. I am not sure which of the KT fights you are struggling with, but he should go down in 1-2 rounds in all of the fights against him. Double check his resists and vulnerables...

Can you give me some recommendations or fix me in the thrower build?
KT had a problem with his resistance, because of which I dealt 0 - 10 damage per turn. Still, after a few days of testing, I was able to defeat him with the last character on the last health points, it was the hardest thing I did in my life :D
I think I will meet more such enemies and how to resist them if I only have a spear for throwing?

If you are throwing weapons or people then Tavern brawler is a must.
It makes the game use 2x your strength mod for the damage and the to hit rolls.
So that's one feat you must have.

You are also wanting to do unarmed meaning you are going to have to grab monk for at least a couple levels unless you are willing to mod and grab classes like bloodrager.
To make the most of unarmed you will also need at least 3 levels of rogue to get thief for the extra bonus action (I would also suggest modding here to grab the mod which allows sneak attack to apply to all physical attacks).

And you are going to want to go at least 5 levels into a martial to get extra attack.

So my suggestion would be 5 in either barbarian or eldritch knight fighter (later will let you grab a fighting style (Defense is good here) the shield spell and a few others like fog cloud etc... as well as a couple cantrips) heavy armor and make all weapons into returning weapons via its weapon bond) or bloodrager.
A 6th level in fighter will also let you grab a second feat.

So over all I would probably go with
Fighter level 1
Monk level 2
Fighter levels 3 to 7 grabbing eldritch knight and tavern brawler and a strength increase.
Rogue levels 8 to 10 grabbing thief.

After that the last 2 levels could be spent either on taking rogue thief to level 5 which would let you grab another feat and their reaction that lets them halve incoming damage or the monk letting you increase your unarmed weapon die size to a d6 or into fighter which should net you another spell slot, their war magic feature and another feat.

If you go this route you will want to spend the feats after tavern brawler grabbing either strength increases or half feats that grant more utility effects with a 1 point stat increase.

You will want to put everything you can into strength then intellect (unless you use the charismatic eldritch knight mod, in which case you can go strength and charisma)

If you don't want to go this route you can substitute those fighter levels for barbarian.
You will end up with rage and medium armor but less feats and no spell casting.
You will want to put everything in strength and the rest split between con & dex.

If you are willing to mod and go abyssal bloodrager then you can drop the fighter/barbarian & monk levels entirely grabbing at least 6 bloodrager levels & 3 thief rogue levels then tossing the rest into bard or sorcerer or paladin for utility stuff.

[THAT GUY]

Originally posted by TG zac:

Originally posted by THAT GUY:

Can you give me some recommendations or fix me in the thrower build?
KT had a problem with his resistance, because of which I dealt 0 - 10 damage per turn. Still, after a few days of testing, I was able to defeat him with the last character on the last health points, it was the hardest thing I did in my life :D
I think I will meet more such enemies and how to resist them if I only have a spear for throwing?

If you are throwing weapons or people then Tavern brawler is a must.
It makes the game use 2x your strength mod for the damage and the to hit rolls.
So that's one feat you must have.

You are also wanting to do unarmed meaning you are going to have to grab monk for at least a couple levels unless you are willing to mod and grab classes like bloodrager.
To make the most of unarmed you will also need at least 3 levels of rogue to get thief for the extra bonus action (I would also suggest modding here to grab the mod which allows sneak attack to apply to all physical attacks).

And you are going to want to go at least 5 levels into a martial to get extra attack.

So my suggestion would be 5 in either barbarian or eldritch knight fighter (later will let you grab a fighting style (Defense is good here) the shield spell and a few others like fog cloud etc... as well as a couple cantrips) heavy armor and make all weapons into returning weapons via its weapon bond) or bloodrager.
A 6th level in fighter will also let you grab a second feat.

So over all I would probably go with
Fighter level 1
Monk level 2
Fighter levels 3 to 7 grabbing eldritch knight and tavern brawler and a strength increase.
Rogue levels 8 to 10 grabbing thief.

After that the last 2 levels could be spent either on taking rogue thief to level 5 which would let you grab another feat and their reaction that lets them halve incoming damage or the monk letting you increase your unarmed weapon die size to a d6 or into fighter which should net you another spell slot, their war magic feature and another feat.

If you go this route you will want to spend the feats after tavern brawler grabbing either strength increases or half feats that grant more utility effects with a 1 point stat increase.

You will want to put everything you can into strength then intellect (unless you use the charismatic eldritch knight mod, in which case you can go strength and charisma)

If you don't want to go this route you can substitute those fighter levels for barbarian.
You will end up with rage and medium armor but less feats and no spell casting.
You will want to put everything in strength and the rest split between con & dex.

If you are willing to mod and go abyssal bloodrager then you can drop the fighter/barbarian & monk levels entirely grabbing at least 6 bloodrager levels & 3 thief rogue levels then tossing the rest into bard or sorcerer or paladin for utility stuff.

This is very interesting. After all, this is the kind of game that you want to replay just because of the character build.
I'm going through the throwing now. Next time I'll try the way you advised. Thank you very much for the answer!

[seeker1]

I know this thread was started not to talk about shuriken, but I'm going to talk about shuriken, the things your monk/ninja were meant to throw.

Well, there's a mod for that now. "Eastern Weapons Pack" adds shuriken to the game. At long last! (As well as katanas, and other Japanese swords.) It's still got some issues, like the shuriken appear to be lacking icons ... but hopefully it will eventually all be debugged.

They're also coded as darts (which are in the game files but not implemented) so technically so far they are not, per se, throwable, but I hope this will be fixed, too.