Disciple of life and Grim Harvest

[Queen]

Has anyone tested to see if Disciple of life and Grim harvest stack in Baldur's gate 3?

IE: If you kill something with a spell as a multi-class necromancer wizard and life cleric, do you heal twice the spell level (for grim harvest) + the spell level again + 2 for disciple of life?

This is a highly debated topic in my surrounding D&D circles, I'm just wondering how it was implemented in the game.

Answer from devs would be nice <3

[RealDealBreaker]

Are you killing enemies with healing spells? No. So they do not stack. There is no debate about this.

Disciple of Life
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level.

EDIT: To clarify, the healing from grim harvest is not from a spell, it is from an ability and thus you did not use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature.

[Recjawjind]

One thing that should however work is if you pick up a druid level, goodberry should proc disciple of life on every berry.

[medicinezombie]

RAW they don't work together, so who knows. (the healing isn't directly from a spell, but indirect via a class ability with no level attached, and Disciple of Life requires a spell that directly heals).

Larian definitely had a bunch of stuff in DOS2 that played with healing and turning healing into damage and stuff like that, so I could see them house-ruling this combo in.

edit: RealDealBreaker beat me to the answer lol

[Queen]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Are you killing enemies with healing spells? No. So they do not stack. There is no debate about this.

Disciple of Life
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level.

EDIT: To clarify, the healing from grim harvest is not from a spell, it is from an ability and thus you did not use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature.

Again that is your opinion, I'm not asking about RAW D&D rules, I'm asking about how it was implented by larian. You may say that it does not stack, but many DMs think otherwise, that is not the purpose of this discussion.

[Queen]

Originally posted by medicinezombie:

RAW they don't work together, so who knows. (the healing isn't directly from a spell, but indirect via a class ability with no level attached, and Disciple of Life requires a spell that directly heals).

Larian definitely had a bunch of stuff in DOS2 that played with healing and turning healing into damage and stuff like that, so I could see them house-ruling this combo in.

edit: RealDealBreaker beat me to the answer lol

Again, I'm not asking about RAW rules, I'm wondering if anyone tested it in the game to see how the interaction has worked.

As a dev myself, it really depends on how they specified healing and if there is a distinction with healing from spells / healing spells / items.

[medicinezombie]

Originally posted by ✧ Queen ✧:

Originally posted by medicinezombie:

RAW they don't work together, so who knows. (the healing isn't directly from a spell, but indirect via a class ability with no level attached, and Disciple of Life requires a spell that directly heals).

Larian definitely had a bunch of stuff in DOS2 that played with healing and turning healing into damage and stuff like that, so I could see them house-ruling this combo in.

edit: RealDealBreaker beat me to the answer lol

Again, I'm not asking about RAW rules, I'm wondering if anyone tested it in the game to see how the interaction has worked.

As a dev myself, it really depends on how they specified healing and if there is a distinction with healing from spells / healing spells / items.

Is there a reason you can't just check it yourself? I don't own the game yet or I'd check.

I mean, there IS a distinction between healing from spells and other stuff. Disciple of Life states: "Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher" - that is pretty narrow of a definition. It clearly does not apply to something like healing potions (an item), or to Grim Harvest (class ability) - Grim Harvest isn't a spell, doesn't consume spell slots, and has no level.

Sorry lol, it's fine as a houserule, but I'd imagine unlikely in game unless they change how both abilities work. Which is not impossible, but I don't see any reason why they would do it.

[Queen]

Originally posted by medicinezombie:

Originally posted by ✧ Queen ✧:

Again, I'm not asking about RAW rules, I'm wondering if anyone tested it in the game to see how the interaction has worked.

As a dev myself, it really depends on how they specified healing and if there is a distinction with healing from spells / healing spells / items.

Is there a reason you can't just check it yourself? I don't own the game yet or I'd check.

I mean, there IS a distinction between healing from spells and other stuff. Disciple of Life states: "Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher" - that is pretty narrow of a definition. It clearly does not apply to something like healing potions (an item), or to Grim Harvest (class ability) - Grim Harvest isn't a spell, doesn't consume spell slots, and has no level.

Sorry lol, it's fine as a houserule, but I'd imagine unlikely in game unless they change how both abilities work. Which is not impossible, but I don't see any reason why they would do it.

Seriously... why do you keep insisting on debating this, I don't care what ruling is implemented, I'm wondering which one Larian put in the game.

Also if you haven't played, why are you even answering? You would know you can't multi-class in the beta and so it's not possible to try it out without having some kind of insider knowledge.

[medicinezombie]

Originally posted by ✧ Queen ✧:

Originally posted by medicinezombie:

Is there a reason you can't just check it yourself? I don't own the game yet or I'd check.

I mean, there IS a distinction between healing from spells and other stuff. Disciple of Life states: "Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher" - that is pretty narrow of a definition. It clearly does not apply to something like healing potions (an item), or to Grim Harvest (class ability) - Grim Harvest isn't a spell, doesn't consume spell slots, and has no level.

Sorry lol, it's fine as a houserule, but I'd imagine unlikely in game unless they change how both abilities work. Which is not impossible, but I don't see any reason why they would do it.

Seriously... why do you keep insisting on debating this, I don't care what ruling is implemented, I'm wondering which one Larian put in the game.

Also if you haven't played, why are you even answering? You would know you can't multi-class in the beta and so it's not possible to try it out without having some kind of insider knowledge.

Lol, it's not a debate - you are asking if a combo that the rules don't actually allow will be in the game. It's not a "debate". I've pointed out specifically why the rules don't allow it, and if Larian follows the rules of 5e, then the combo won't exist.

Just because I think Barbarians should be allowed to cast spells while raging (Rage Mage!) doesn't mean there is a rules debate about the point.

It's also totally possible they will change one or both of the rules in the final release. Who knows?

Why am I answering? Because I knew where in 5e rules the combo isn't allowed. I'm not wrong. Read the abilities online, the text says what it says.

[Queen]

Originally posted by medicinezombie:

Originally posted by ✧ Queen ✧:

Seriously... why do you keep insisting on debating this, I don't care what ruling is implemented, I'm wondering which one Larian put in the game.

Also if you haven't played, why are you even answering? You would know you can't multi-class in the beta and so it's not possible to try it out without having some kind of insider knowledge.

Lol, it's not a debate - you are asking if a combo that the rules don't actually allow will be in the game. It's not a "debate". I've pointed out specifically why the rules don't allow it, and if Larian follows the rules of 5e, then the combo won't exist.

Just because I think Barbarians should be allowed to cast spells while raging (Rage Mage!) doesn't mean there is a rules debate about the point.

It's also totally possible they will change one or both of the rules in the final release. Who knows?

Why am I answering? Because I knew where in 5e rules the combo isn't allowed. I'm not wrong. Read the abilities online, the text says what it says.

Ok ok, one last time, I don't care what the rules in D&D 5e says and I don't care to discuss them, which is why I mentioned it was a highly controversial topic in my D&D circles.

The fact is, if in the code, there is no distinction between healing that came from a spell effect and healing spells, it's quite possible that it will stack, RAW 5e be damned it all depends on the code, but maybe explaining it to a laymen like yourself is a waste of time.

If you've played Baldur's gate 3, even a little bit, you'll notice that they aren't AT ALL a copy paste of actual rules of play for the tabletop game and so it is quite possible that certain rules won't work as expected or even perhaps as intended.

Which is why I even asked the question in the first place.
Now if you have no pertinent answer to the actual question at hand, I wish you a great rest of your day.

[medicinezombie]

Originally posted by ✧ Queen ✧:

Originally posted by medicinezombie:

Lol, it's not a debate - you are asking if a combo that the rules don't actually allow will be in the game. It's not a "debate". I've pointed out specifically why the rules don't allow it, and if Larian follows the rules of 5e, then the combo won't exist.

Just because I think Barbarians should be allowed to cast spells while raging (Rage Mage!) doesn't mean there is a rules debate about the point.

It's also totally possible they will change one or both of the rules in the final release. Who knows?

Why am I answering? Because I knew where in 5e rules the combo isn't allowed. I'm not wrong. Read the abilities online, the text says what it says.

Ok ok, one last time, I don't care what the rules in D&D 5e says and I don't care to discuss them, which is why I mentioned it was a highly controversial topic in my D&D circles.

The fact is, if in the code, there is no distinction between healing that came from a spell effect and healing spells, it's quite possible that it will stack, RAW 5e be damned it all depends on the code, but maybe explaining it to a laymen like yourself is a waste of time.

If you've played Baldur's gate 3, even a little bit, you'll notice that they aren't AT ALL a copy paste of actual rules of play for the tabletop game and so it is quite possible that certain rules won't work as expected or even perhaps as intended.

Which is why I even asked the question in the first place.
Now if you have no pertinent answer to the actual question at hand, I wish you a great rest of your day.

Haha I mean, I trust that they could make the ability work either way, there is definitely no technical reasons why it could or couldn't happen.

And since the game is so moddable there will probably be mods at some point that could accomplish this.

I guess I'd make sure to carefully reread the ability descriptions in game - multiclassing isn't possible yet, but both of these abilities are in the game already, right?

If the abilities are written differently than the tabletop versions (specifically, if Disciple of Life specifies "spells") in the version already in game, or if it doesn't, might be a clue.

You're totally right that Larian has changed a lot of stuff, if these abilities were changed it might have happened already.

[Queen]

Originally posted by medicinezombie:

Originally posted by ✧ Queen ✧:

Ok ok, one last time, I don't care what the rules in D&D 5e says and I don't care to discuss them, which is why I mentioned it was a highly controversial topic in my D&D circles.

The fact is, if in the code, there is no distinction between healing that came from a spell effect and healing spells, it's quite possible that it will stack, RAW 5e be damned it all depends on the code, but maybe explaining it to a laymen like yourself is a waste of time.

If you've played Baldur's gate 3, even a little bit, you'll notice that they aren't AT ALL a copy paste of actual rules of play for the tabletop game and so it is quite possible that certain rules won't work as expected or even perhaps as intended.

Which is why I even asked the question in the first place.
Now if you have no pertinent answer to the actual question at hand, I wish you a great rest of your day.

Haha I mean, I trust that they could make the ability work either way, there is definitely no technical reasons why it could or couldn't happen.

And since the game is so moddable there will probably be mods at some point that could accomplish this.

I guess I'd make sure to carefully reread the ability descriptions in game - multiclassing isn't possible yet, but both of these abilities are in the game already, right?

If the abilities are written differently than the tabletop versions (specifically, if Disciple of Life specifies "spells") in the version already in game, or if it doesn't, might be a clue.

You're totally right that Larian has changed a lot of stuff, if these abilities were changed it might have happened already.

I mean yes, they can make it work in any way possible, it's true.

But I want to know what Larian chose and if anyone has tested it.

Also link to proof that this is a highly debated topic, I mean, just check the comments section of this youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLaOLFcIk-c

[RealDealBreaker]

Originally posted by ✧ Queen ✧:

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Are you killing enemies with healing spells? No. So they do not stack. There is no debate about this.

Disciple of Life
Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level.

EDIT: To clarify, the healing from grim harvest is not from a spell, it is from an ability and thus you did not use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature.

Again that is your opinion, I'm not asking about RAW D&D rules, I'm asking about how it was implented by larian. You may say that it does not stack, but many DMs think otherwise, that is not the purpose of this discussion.

WE can't tell you what is in the game because necromancer is not in EA. So all we CAN tell you is what the rule is. If your circle of d&d people are debating the RAW then they simply cannot read.

[Queen]

Originally posted by RealDealBreaker:

Originally posted by ✧ Queen ✧:

Again that is your opinion, I'm not asking about RAW D&D rules, I'm asking about how it was implented by larian. You may say that it does not stack, but many DMs think otherwise, that is not the purpose of this discussion.

WE can't tell you what is in the game because necromancer is not in EA. So all we CAN tell you is what the rule is. If your circle of d&d people are debating the RAW then they simply cannot read.

Some people have had access to the game outside of EA and Devs exist.

Also thanks for being a ♥♥♥♥ <3

[forgiveyourself]

Lol, I don't think I've ever seen two bigger egos. :P How many times are y'all going to say the same thing repeatedly in hopes the other person will bow. It made me literally uncomfortable how cyclic and unproductive this was. "Again, I'm not talking about ... "

Clearly y'all disagree on the semantics of his question and how these answers should be sourced, so just, like, move on lmao.

I will say the Disciple of Life feature does explicitly read "spell," and refers to the spell slot.

HOWEVER, at one point during the early access it was affecting health potions. (Whether that was intended or not, idk, but it was.)

So even though the tooltip seems pretty concise, there is a chance that -- bug or intentional -- they work together even though Grim Harvest is not a spell.

[CookinWithTide]

As someone who made mods for divinity, a lot of the heals in the game were coded to be spells cast on self.

I just confirmed the ring of regeneration also procs life domain when it heals. I checked the combat log and it is treated as a level 1 spell.

It also triggers life domain on short rest.