Thoughts on dual wield? Especially on a ranger (finesse weapons)

[A]

Are bows better than dual wielding? Or will DW work? I was hoping to do gloomstalker ranger on my release playthrough. I tried a bit of ranger with 2 scimitars and it's not half bad with hunter's mark. I'm assuming hunter's mark procs per weapon?

Assuming this is finesse dual wielding, won't you be fine at 10 strength?

[A]

引用自 Indure：

Dual wielding at level 1 is probably better, but bows will very quickly surpass it.

Also for ranger, hunters mark is a bonus action, which will block your offhand attack every time you switch targets.

In what ways will biws surpass it? I'm assuming it's the archery specialty? What else?

Just to be clear, hunter's mark once applied will never consume spell slots for the remainder of the day right even if you go on a new encounter, but it does eat bonus action?

[seandeven]

引用自 A：

引用自 seandeven：

...or dual wield and use a bow at range?

I'm dumb, and yes I've played the game but bear with me. For a class like ranger who uses finesse weapons, switching between bow and melee doesn't matter in terms of damage, right? Considering bow and melee rely on dex? Basically, it's not as problematic as trying to hit with a crossbow consistently as a str barb who needs to focus on getting close right?

The, to hit and damage modifiers, are the same on finesse weapons and a bow. Very much not as problematic as a Barb with X-bow.

[Indure]

引用自 A：

引用自 seandeven：

...or dual wield and use a bow at range?

I'm dumb, and yes I've played the game but bear with me. For a class like ranger who uses finesse weapons, switching between bow and melee doesn't matter in terms of damage, right? Considering bow and melee rely on dex? Basically, it's not as problematic as trying to hit with a crossbow consistently as a str barb who needs to focus on getting close right?

It doesn't matter and in BG3 it doesn't cost any sort of action to switch weapons from melee to range.

In regards to this conversation the only differences would be in what feats, spells you took to support the desired build.

[Recjawjind]

引用自 A：

引用自 Indure：

Dual wielding at level 1 is probably better, but bows will very quickly surpass it.

Also for ranger, hunters mark is a bonus action, which will block your offhand attack every time you switch targets.

In what ways will biws surpass it? I'm assuming it's the archery specialty? What else?

Just to be clear, hunter's mark once applied will never consume spell slots for the remainder of the day right even if you go on a new encounter, but it does eat bonus action?

It eats bonus actions whenever you swap it from one target to the next. However, if you drop concentration on it (which more easily happens in melee), you will have to recast it if you still want it.

[Eike]

引用自 Indure：

Dual wielding at level 1 is probably better, but bows will very quickly surpass it.

Also for ranger, hunters mark is a bonus action, which will block your offhand attack every time you switch targets.

Wow! Thank you very much indeed Indure! 😉 I never knew that!

I love playing my gal Half Wood Elf Hunter as a dual wielder, but wondered why my offhand attacks didn't proc sometimes.😡 I never realised it was because of Hunters Mark🤔

[dolby]

you easly fix dual wielding ranger by removing concentration from hunters mark that's the first thing i'll mod IF they didn't do anything to improve dual wielding... Hopefully they did something...

[WeenerTuck813]

Dual wield ranger works great.

I like STRanger, with not so much dex and focusing Str. There’s some great weapon options, esp that mace off the Gnoll boss that’s a +2 mace with life stealing on it

[Indure]

引用自 A：

引用自 Indure：

Dual wielding at level 1 is probably better, but bows will very quickly surpass it.

Also for ranger, hunters mark is a bonus action, which will block your offhand attack every time you switch targets.

In what ways will biws surpass it? I'm assuming it's the archery specialty? What else?

Just to be clear, hunter's mark once applied will never consume spell slots for the remainder of the day right even if you go on a new encounter, but it does eat bonus action?

The Sharpshooter feat is probably the biggest difference between the two, but also as you gain more attacks via leveling or spells/potions they only give more attack actions, not bonus actions which favor the bigger weapons.

Point of comparison at level 5:

Longbow:
1d8 +3(dex) + 10(SS) + 1d8(HM) = ave 22 damage
x2 (two attacks) = 44 damage

Dual Wield Rapiers:
1d8 + 3(dex) + 1d8(HM) = ave 12 damage
x2 (two attacks) = 24 damage
x3 (bonus action) = 36 damage

First round you have to cast hunters mark so you only get 2 attacks, but assuming the target is still alive in the next round you could potentially get 36 damage.

If we optimize the damage for both over two rounds that is 60 for dual wielding and 88 for bows.

[Edstyles]

Dual wield is fine if Just a tad clunky/gimmicky. Thats 1 extra weapon with elemental damage. So 1d8 + 1d4.

Tho I think id go 2 hander polearm so strength build. Having a bonus action to do other things imo is too good. So either bow spec or 2 hander spec.
You can use bonus action to jump to mark to shove to heal etc too many good uses

[A]

引用自 Edstiles：

Dual wield is fine if Just a tad clunky/gimmicky. Thats 1 extra weapon with elemental damage. So 1d8 + 1d4.

Tho I think id go 2 hander polearm so strength build. Having a bonus action to do other things imo is too good. So either bow spec or 2 hander spec.
You can use bonus action to jump to mark to shove to heal etc too many good uses

point taken. Having the strength to jump was actually something I'd miss when i dumped strength. Is having reach on a 2-hander something that makes a difference vs another 2 hander like a greatsword?

[A]

引用自 Indure：

引用自 A：

In what ways will biws surpass it? I'm assuming it's the archery specialty? What else?

Just to be clear, hunter's mark once applied will never consume spell slots for the remainder of the day right even if you go on a new encounter, but it does eat bonus action?

The Sharpshooter feat is probably the biggest difference between the two, but also as you gain more attacks via leveling or spells/potions they only give more attack actions, not bonus actions which favor the bigger weapons.

Point of comparison at level 5:

Longbow:
1d8 +3(dex) + 10(SS) + 1d8(HM) = ave 22 damage
x2 (two attacks) = 44 damage

Dual Wield Rapiers:
1d8 + 3(dex) + 1d8(HM) = ave 12 damage
x2 (two attacks) = 24 damage
x3 (bonus action) = 36 damage

First round you have to cast hunters mark so you only get 2 attacks, but assuming the target is still alive in the next round you could potentially get 36 damage.

If we optimize the damage for both over two rounds that is 60 for dual wielding and 88 for bows.

While the math seem to rule in favor of bows due to damage, won't dual wield make sense later on (as a resurgence if you will) if we consider effects of 2 weapon effects vs 1? Assuming there are good weapon combos like in BG 2 for example.

[Indure]

引用自 A：

引用自 Edstiles：

Dual wield is fine if Just a tad clunky/gimmicky. Thats 1 extra weapon with elemental damage. So 1d8 + 1d4.

Tho I think id go 2 hander polearm so strength build. Having a bonus action to do other things imo is too good. So either bow spec or 2 hander spec.
You can use bonus action to jump to mark to shove to heal etc too many good uses

point taken. Having the strength to jump was actually something I'd miss when i dumped strength. Is having reach on a 2-hander something that makes a difference vs another 2 hander like a greatsword?

By itself not really. Each weapon in BG3 does have their own unique attacks so that is something to consider as well. Also feats like polearm master stop enemies from moving when a opportunity attack lands, which can stop them outside of melee range for yourself. But keep in mind opportunity attacks are poorly implemented in BG3 currently, not sure what they will look like on release.

[THEBEAST6969]

dual wielding is good for rangers but in the later levels its not as good a ranged

[Indure]

引用自 A：

While the math seem to rule in favor of bows due to damage, won't dual wield make sense later on (as a resurgence if you will) if we consider effects of 2 weapon effects vs 1? Assuming there are good weapon combos like in BG 2 for example.

Possibly, no one will know until after launch.

[Edstyles]

引用自 A：

引用自 Edstiles：

Dual wield is fine if Just a tad clunky/gimmicky. Thats 1 extra weapon with elemental damage. So 1d8 + 1d4.

Tho I think id go 2 hander polearm so strength build. Having a bonus action to do other things imo is too good. So either bow spec or 2 hander spec.
You can use bonus action to jump to mark to shove to heal etc too many good uses

point taken. Having the strength to jump was actually something I'd miss when i dumped strength. Is having reach on a 2-hander something that makes a difference vs another 2 hander like a greatsword?

Extra threat is never a bad thing, but it all depends on the available weapons and limiting your self to polearms isnt always a good thing so will have to wait and see. Luckely respecs are available