Why do everyone betray the Emperor?

[Raymond]

I followed youtubers to get "good" ending in my first few runs, and they always suggest to betray the Emperor for Orpheus because he was manipulating Tav , and I did just that. Yet on the last run I decided to look around and find clues about Emperor's backstory, and as it turns out, the Emperor never lies, he was speaking the truth the whole time:
- There was an interrogation log conducted by Gortash after he captured the Emperor, proving that he did, in fact, escape from the Netherbrain more than one and been seeking his freedom ever since
- There is a written record from the Zhentarim about the Knight of the Shield as well as investigation into Stalmane involment with the order.

The only questionable part about his story was his relationship with Duchess Stalmane. While some record and Wyll's exposition hinted a confirmation of Emperor using his power to coerce Stalmane into his servitude. But there is one record from an eye witness confirming that Stalemane herself was in fact half illithid. Considering the fact that Stalemane never gone through complete ceremophorsis and was murdered by Bhaalspawns. It's apparent that she was in fact tadpoled by Absolute cultists and was saved by the Emperor the same way he saved himself. This could explain why Stalemane appeared sicks according to Wyll (your Tav also look unhealthy after turning half-illithid), and why her health rapidly deteriorate further after the Emperor was recaptured but Gortash.

Let's not even forget the fact Emperor is the only one of your companion who went against the Absolute for the pure purpose of freeing him and his allies from the tadpole and the Absolute's control you have to pass the hardest persuasion check in the game to convince him to do the evil ending without any other intention. Nearly everyone else in your team all have ulterior motives and all of them demand your Tav to serve their interest, especially Lae'zel who blackmail you emotionally into freeing Orpheus and betray the Emperor. Even if the Emperor was manipulating you, then he is far from being the only one who does so.

[Angel]

cos emperor bad

[Lightseeker]

well i suggest you try antagonize him and see what he responds.When in act 3 he tries to romance you.Try the no you freak dialog option.

[Mike Garrison]

Yeah, try finding out what the *real* situation was with Duke Stellmane. She wasn't its "partner". She was its mind-controlled slave. If you piss off the Emperor enough, it actually reveals this to you, and then says "Aren't you glad I have refined my methods since then?"

[SpaceWombat]

Because he's utterly untrustworthy. Mindflayers consume the soul of the host, killing the person that was when they are born. He's a manipulative creature focused solely on self preservation who turns against you as soon as he doesn't get what he wants.

Also Orpheus dying results in the multiverse more or less being left in a state where the Illithids become unopposed. The Netherbrain being defeated is important, but it doesn't change the fact that mindflayers are still everywhere across the planes and need to constantly be held at bay.

[Duilf]

Here are 2 very important pieces of advice when it comes to deducing new information.

Form a theory that fits all the facts. Never form facts to fit a theory. In other words A = A don't make it a B or assume it is irrelevant in the overall equation. In the absolute simplest of terms prove it.

"Once you have eliminated the possible whatever is left no matter how improbable must be true". In other words deduction is a process of elimination. You start from what is familiar to you, and work outward from there removing things that don't match up with all of the facts until there is only one option.

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Belynne_Stelmane

Stelmane did not have an absolute tadpole. What she had was the Emperor basically raping her mind... that isn't something people with good intentions do even in dire circumstances.

[Renlish]

Oh, my sweet summer child...

[Isengrym]

That account you mention about Stelmane being half-illithid? That's not what it says.

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Shield_Steward_Interrogation_Log

The logical conclusion from that record is that Nuge encountered the Emperor psionically disguised as Stelmane--the Emperor assumed that appearance and made Nuge see the brains as mutton pie, presumably so that he could move around freely. Nuge saw the truth when the Emperor's control slipped. Your character sees the Emperor assume another appearance; that's nothing unusual for him.

I didn't even get the Emperor's full confession on my first playthrough--my character despised him but wouldn't call anyone a freak--and it was still clear to me that he was evil. He deceives and manipulates the PC throughout the game, only telling the truth when it suits him or when he can't avoid it. And he calls himself "the Emperor." I know he didn't give himself that title, but he chose to embrace it. It's what he asks you to call him. He could have introduced himself as Bob or Gertrude, but he wants to be known as the Emperor: a ruler above others, pulling strings. On top of which, his attitude toward Orpheus is *not* that of a good guy. It's true we're dependent on Orpheus's protection, and that Orpheus wouldn't have chosen to help us at the outset, but a good person would still lament the necessity of using someone that way. The Emperor gloats about it. Any doubts I had about my mistrust of him were banished when he started going on about the "beautiful sight" of Orpheus in "submissive slumber." This is a guy who loves using others for his own gain and feels no compunction about it.

As for party members having their own motives, yes, the characters are written as people with their own concerns and goals. It's your prerogative as the player to decide whether to support or oppose them in those goals. But Lae'zel, whom you mention, only turns against Vlaakith if the player nudges her in that direction. You influence her motives. (I haven't actually seen how a Vlaakith loyalist Lae'zel plays out, but I'm guessing she doesn't favor freeing Orpheus.)

And that interrogation log of Gortash's? The Emperor lied in that interrogation. He said he broke free of the Elder Brain on his own, but it was Ansur who rescued him the first time and carried him beyond its telepathic reach. The second time it was coming within range of Orpheus's protection that freed him. His strong personality surely helped, but he didn't do it all on his own.

Side with the Emperor if you want to. It's your game. But siding with him isn't a morally good choice. You could call it neutral, if your character is just doing what seems safest--you can't be sure how Orpheus will react to you if freed--or if you're playing someone who feels indebted to the Emperor for his help, regardless of his motives, and feels honor-bound to pay that debt. But it's definitely not the *good* choice.

[Nox]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Raymond:

I followed youtubers to get "good" ending in my first few runs, and they always suggest to betray the Emperor for Orpheus because he was manipulating Tav , and I did just that. Yet on the last run I decided to look around and find clues about Emperor's backstory, and as it turns out, the Emperor never lies, he was speaking the truth the whole time:
- There was an interrogation log conducted by Gortash after he captured the Emperor, proving that he did, in fact, escape from the Netherbrain more than one and been seeking his freedom ever since
- There is a written record from the Zhentarim about the Knight of the Shield as well as investigation into Stalmane involment with the order.

The only questionable part about his story was his relationship with Duchess Stalmane. While some record and Wyll's exposition hinted a confirmation of Emperor using his power to coerce Stalmane into his servitude. But there is one record from an eye witness confirming that Stalemane herself was in fact half illithid. Considering the fact that Stalemane never gone through complete ceremophorsis and was murdered by Bhaalspawns. It's apparent that she was in fact tadpoled by Absolute cultists and was saved by the Emperor the same way he saved himself. This could explain why Stalemane appeared sicks according to Wyll (your Tav also look unhealthy after turning half-illithid), and why her health rapidly deteriorate further after the Emperor was recaptured but Gortash.

Let's not even forget the fact Emperor is the only one of your companion who went against the Absolute for the pure purpose of freeing him and his allies from the tadpole and the Absolute's control you have to pass the hardest persuasion check in the game to convince him to do the evil ending without any other intention. Nearly everyone else in your team all have ulterior motives and all of them demand your Tav to serve their interest, especially Lae'zel who blackmail you emotionally into freeing Orpheus and betray the Emperor. Even if the Emperor was manipulating you, then he is far from being the only one who does so.

Manipulative, lying and deceitful.

His whole good guy is just an act. Try talking to him in a more straight / hostile manner and his facade vanishes.

[War Maiden]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lightseeker:

well i suggest you try antagonize him and see what he responds.When in act 3 he tries to romance him try the no you freak option.

What does that even mean?

Początkowo opublikowane przez Raymond:

I followed youtubers to get "good" ending in my first few runs, and they always suggest to betray the Emperor for Orpheus because he was manipulating Tav , and I did just that. Yet on the last run I decided to look around and find clues about Emperor's backstory, and as it turns out, the Emperor never lies, he was speaking the truth the whole time:
- There was an interrogation log conducted by Gortash after he captured the Emperor, proving that he did, in fact, escape from the Netherbrain more than one and been seeking his freedom ever since
- There is a written record from the Zhentarim about the Knight of the Shield as well as investigation into Stalmane involment with the order.

The only questionable part about his story was his relationship with Duchess Stalmane. While some record and Wyll's exposition hinted a confirmation of Emperor using his power to coerce Stalmane into his servitude. But there is one record from an eye witness confirming that Stalemane herself was in fact half illithid. Considering the fact that Stalemane never gone through complete ceremophorsis and was murdered by Bhaalspawns. It's apparent that she was in fact tadpoled by Absolute cultists and was saved by the Emperor the same way he saved himself. This could explain why Stalemane appeared sicks according to Wyll (your Tav also look unhealthy after turning half-illithid), and why her health rapidly deteriorate further after the Emperor was recaptured but Gortash.

Let's not even forget the fact Emperor is the only one of your companion who went against the Absolute for the pure purpose of freeing him and his allies from the tadpole and the Absolute's control you have to pass the hardest persuasion check in the game to convince him to do the evil ending without any other intention. Nearly everyone else in your team all have ulterior motives and all of them demand your Tav to serve their interest, especially Lae'zel who blackmail you emotionally into freeing Orpheus and betray the Emperor. Even if the Emperor was manipulating you, then he is far from being the only one who does so.

You do realize that the 'Emperor' is the Baldur's Gate founder, Balduran, yes?
He has been around for a long time. Whether he is someone one can trust is up the the story content/context at the time of arrival!

[Bumc]

He _was_ Baldurian sure. Illithid transformation was not kind to his psyche.

You have to pass the check to convince him for bad ending because he is scared ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (understandably) of the prospects of fighting Gith, even with Netherbrain in tow.

[Inquisitor Firebrand]

I sarcastically told him I wanted a good nights sleep in his romance attempt and he put me to sleep for 2 turns after the long rest was over

[War Maiden]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Inquisitor Firebrand:

I sarcastically told him I wanted a good nights sleep in his romance attempt and he put me to sleep for 2 turns after the long rest was over

As the old saying goes:
"Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.."

[20 faces on a die]

Because, one, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tentacles is freaky.
Second, read point 1

[DeathStroke]

because no matter what he was before , or what he says to you , he is still an Illithid . 99.9% of the time they should be killed on sight with extreme prejudice . at best you should work with it until you dont need it anymore , but its not your friend . the only creatures that even remotely consort with Mind-Flayers with any regularity are Drow , and even they do so with distaste , which should tell you all you need to know . thats like working with an Eldritch Horror , they are so removed and so alien from everything else that you can never connect or relate to one , it says all the right things to you and makes you feel like its not just a thing , but it is. the " Emperor " is a thing , it doesnt mean anything it says to you , and you only matter to it for as long as you serve its plans . You should kill it as soon as possible.

[seeker1]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Bumc:

He _was_ Baldurian sure. Illithid transformation was not kind to his psyche.

Thread should be spoiler tagged. I will spoiler warn.

No, he's not Balduran. He's the thing that ate Balduran and has his memories. Balduran's original soul and personality are gone. If you've played ToTSC, you'll realize Balduran is not as great and heroic as the city folk make him out to be. But in any case, Emperor - as all mindflayers do - has lost most of Balduran's original qualities, he simply kept the memories.... he no longer has any human emotions or feelings ... he never cared about Stellmane one iota, he psionically dominated and manipulated her.

He cruelly killed his best friend (and more?) Ansur because he tried to stop his "evolution". Emperor is fine with turning you into a mindflayer, he's been pushing you to "evolve" like him, he just wants you and him to be AUTONOMOUS mindflayers not controlled by an elder brain. Although oddly he will sacrifice his autonomy and side with the Netherbrain when the chips are down.

Also, rather ironically, the founder of the city will, when the chips are down, side with the massive entity trying to destroy it. Time to take the statues down, I think.

And no, she was never half illithid, I don't know where THAT fan theory comes from.

There ARE hints throughout the game that Emperor was the one who originally tadpoled us though. (Yes, eye color is often cited to refute this theory, but.)

Aside from the fact that Emp is a douche, letting him nom nom on Orpheus' brain also rids the Gith of their greatest hope of overthrowing Vlaakith. Honestly, I never do it, for those reasons. Although yes, NOT siding with hm does require somebody ELSE must become illithid. The ending has no easy choices. (At least not without mods and hacks, anyway.)