Gortash´s agenda

[Exarch_Alpha]

So we all know once you go to confront the little ***, there are several corpses on the ground.

I wonder

Are those who waited for too long to see what monarchy means what (dumb IMO considering they are now... corpses)

Or

he would TOTALLY dominate BG without outside intervention?

[seeker1]

He's a very typical kind of villain. Reminds me of the Norsefire Party in V for Vendetta. Create the very crisis you then claim only you have the solution for, and use that to rise to power and tyranny. Take any political opponents or dissidents and hide them away in your secret underwater prison.

I very much enjoy assassinating him with prejudice. I have never chosen the "alliance" option although I understand watching the Netherbrain turn him into jelly for him trying to dominate it is rather satisfying.

[jonnin]

his goal as the chosen or near avatar or whatever plot status of bane implies his goals align with that deity. Bane is about dictatorship, tyranny, iron-fisted rule and domination/subjugation combined with an appetite for war and expansion of influence.

So basically he is going to be an awful leader who drags BG city into wars and misery, but most people who keep their heads down and avoid breaking the laws (which will be difficult) will survive. Likely he will conscript his enemies, real and perceived, into the fodder section of his army, and he may shut down temples, etc. No worse than some other leaders of BG, though -- its been through its share of idiots and tyrants.

He may try to remake BG into the image of classic zhent keep -- complete with a beholder corps enforcement wing, temples of bane, and eventually a place no one with any sense will get within a 2 day march of.

[Bumc]

Those corpses were his guests on the little coronation spectacle. Merchants, nobles, those kind of guys.

I still have no idea why Gortash murdered them all except "hurr durr I'm a villain".
Like what was the point in going through the motions, especially if he had long-term plans including potentially siding with Tav&Co.

[jonnin]

Originally posted by Bumc:

Those corpses were his guests on the little coronation spectacle. Merchants, nobles, those kind of guys.

I still have no idea why Gortash murdered them all except "hurr durr I'm a villain".
Like what was the point in going through the motions, especially if he had long-term plans including potentially siding with Tav&Co.

I don't recall any lore books/letters etc here but likely its the usual take over the city, round up your enemies at a party or something they can't refuse to attend, and kill them all, leaving only your stooges in any position of power/wealth and plenty of vacancies for more loyalists to fill.

[SpaceWombat]

Originally posted by Bumc:

Those corpses were his guests on the little coronation spectacle. Merchants, nobles, those kind of guys.

I still have no idea why Gortash murdered them all except "hurr durr I'm a villain".
Like what was the point in going through the motions, especially if he had long-term plans including potentially siding with Tav&Co.

Considering Gortash's plot in BG3 is almost a 1:1 ripoff of Sarevok's plan in the first game he probably killed them to replace the nobility with loyal shapeshifters to secure his title further... and as a backup plan to frame your party for murder if you didn't do as he says.

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by SpaceWombat:

Originally posted by Bumc:

Those corpses were his guests on the little coronation spectacle. Merchants, nobles, those kind of guys.

I still have no idea why Gortash murdered them all except "hurr durr I'm a villain".
Like what was the point in going through the motions, especially if he had long-term plans including potentially siding with Tav&Co.

Considering Gortash's plot in BG3 is almost a 1:1 ripoff of Sarevok's plan in the first game he probably killed them to replace the nobility with loyal shapeshifters to secure his title further... and as a backup plan to frame your party for murder if you didn't do as he says.

Nah. It is Orin and the Bhaalists (including Sarevok) who are using the shapeshifters. There is no sign that Gortash is (except in the sense that he is working with Orin).

Anyway, in BG1 Sarevok wasn't actually really trying to rule Baldur's Gate because he wanted to rule. He was only trying to do it in order to start a war with Amn that would get as many people as possible killed. His whole deal was just "more deaths = more murder = I can replace Bhaal".

Gortash, on the other hand, isn't into killing everyone. He's into controlling them. (IIRC, if you ally with him he does give some explanation for why he killed off all the patriars, but I don't remember what it was. I think it may have just been that they were potential rivals for his control over Baldur's Gate.)

[Chaosolous]

Originally posted by SpaceWombat:

Originally posted by Bumc:

Those corpses were his guests on the little coronation spectacle. Merchants, nobles, those kind of guys.

I still have no idea why Gortash murdered them all except "hurr durr I'm a villain".
Like what was the point in going through the motions, especially if he had long-term plans including potentially siding with Tav&Co.

Considering Gortash's plot in BG3 is almost a 1:1 ripoff of Sarevok's plan in the first game he probably killed them to replace the nobility with loyal shapeshifters to secure his title further... and as a backup plan to frame your party for murder if you didn't do as he says.

No it's not.

In BG1 Sarevok wanted more war for more deaths because Bhaal.

In BG3 Gortash wants control and power, not just simply "more death."

[SpaceWombat]

Originally posted by Chaosolous:

No it's not.

In BG1 Sarevok wanted more war for more deaths because Bhaal.

In BG3 Gortash wants control and power, not just simply "more death."

That doesn't refute my point. Sure their motives were different but his plan to fabricate a threat for war then swoop in with control of a "savior" mercenary faction ( or in this case mechanized fighters ) to assume power over the city is functionally identical.

[Raz]

Does Gortash slaughter everyone after you kill Orin or just if you free the Gondians from the Iron Throne? I've never killed Orin before the Iron Throne and gone after Gortash before, hence the asking.

If he only does it after the Iron Throne rescue, my guess is that he kills all those in power who could actually oppose him once hearing what he was doing to the Gondians. Not to mention he no longer has his personal army of Steel Watch anymore.

If he kills them in either case; then, yeah, its probably just a case of replacing them with loyalist or just getting rid of those who'd be a problem.

[anne]

Originally posted by jonnin:

Originally posted by Bumc:

Those corpses were his guests on the little coronation spectacle. Merchants, nobles, those kind of guys.

I still have no idea why Gortash murdered them all except "hurr durr I'm a villain".
Like what was the point in going through the motions, especially if he had long-term plans including potentially siding with Tav&Co.

I don't recall any lore books/letters etc here but likely its the usual take over the city, round up your enemies at a party or something they can't refuse to attend, and kill them all, leaving only your stooges in any position of power/wealth and plenty of vacancies for more loyalists to fill.

If you think about, he didn't kill them until after he became Archduke. Political figures need the influence from patrons in order to get into that high position. I believe he used their wealth and high status in order to get into the position of Archduke. On top of that, a political figure having a mass following and crowd of people who "support" his ideas (threatened, most likely) helps you to make the process of taking over a city easier. Once he became Archduke, he didn't need them anymore-so he disposed of them. Why keep something around that you don't need?

His lore is deep and interesting, and I think all of it makes his character such a great villain. And I love how for the parts of the past that aren't confirmed for him is up for interpretation by the players. Any answer could be correct honestly.

[Annie Other]

If you return to Wyrm's Rock after entering the Lower City, but before the Iron Throne/Steel Watch, you can talk to the Black Gauntlets and Iron Consuls Gortash has positioned in the throne room.
If you ask Iron Consul Nuff what happened, he says: 'My Lord requires a clear path to his magnificent future. We cut away the troublesome bramble.'
As I interpret this, Gortash only needed the patriars to become Archduke, but they would have been more of a hindrance to his plans after, so he got rid of them.

[Oonayah]

The patriar families of Baldur's Gate are very powerful. They have their own guards, retainers, and loyalists. Most of them have great wealth and quite a few of them have connections and influence extending well beyond the city. They're not nobility because a monarch promoted them to that stature, they're patriars because they have money and power in a city of merchant-princes. Many Dukes who have been seated on the city's governing body of the Council of Four are from this class.

By killing the representatives many of the patriar families sent to his coronation - the head of this family, the eldest daughter of another, the beloved sister of that one - Gortash is sending a message to the entire population that he is the most powerful person in Baldur's Gate and he can take from any of them, even the most powerful among them. Whatever he wants, whenever he chooses, and they can't stop him. It's not about loyalty, it's about power.

A follower of Bane, the god of tyranny, Gortash wants to control and oppress and to do that he has to create fear (Ketheric's army) and sow chaos (Orin's murderspree). Killing a handful of patriar family members is just another step along the way to absolute power.