Why do you like/dislike Karlach?

[Mk]

I have come to believe that this character is somewhat divisive for players, more so than other characters.

While it is perfectly reasonable that everyone has their own taste and preferences in terms of characters' looks, mannerisms and animations in general, I wonder if there are specifically objective reasons why you like/dislike Karlach.

So I am not so interested here to knowing whether you find her good-looking or ugly, but rather whether you have any objective reason for liking Karlach or disliking Karlach.

I will give you my opinion.
She's not the origin character I like the least, but she comes quite close to being it.

Aside from the subjective aspect (I quite dislike her manner of speaking, her voice, her attitude, her looks and her animations), there are some more objective reasons why I dislike her in the game.

The main reasons I can point out are basically two:
1. She's the only one among the origin characters that speaks using a vocabulary that sounds very modern, much unlike the way other characters speak. Regardless of whether I like to hear a person resorting to such language, I find this peculiar characteristic of hers too much off compared to the other characters. It feels weird, as if she were not really fitting with all the rest of my camp.

2. She's really too obviously animated like a stereotyped muscular man. Her idle animations in camp are not particularly imaginative or unique, but this might be true for the other characters too. However, her animations have been seen in pop culture of the past decades in countless variations of male characters, to the point that now they feel off on a female character. Those animations are quite ingrained in the average person's mind as masculine and seeing Karlach moving like that makes her look like a mockery of a stereotyped man with a female body. That's disturbing, to the verge of breaking the immersion. She looks more like a political statement than a real character.

So what's your take on this so controversial red skinned Barbarian?

[Starmender]

"Aside from subjective aspect (her animations) there are some more objective reasons: her animation" lol

[Mk]

Originally posted by Starmender:

"Aside from subjective aspect (her animations) there are some more objective reasons: her animation" lol

There are two reasons, one subjective and one objective, to dislike her animation:

The subjective reason is that I don't like women in games being animated like men, even when it is perfectly reasonable, because I prefer women to look more feminine.
But this is very subjective of course.

The other reason is that in this particular game those animations tend to break the immersion and make her look off, especially compared to other characters.
This second one has not much to do with my taste. It has to do with how her animations blend in the game's atmosphere.

Anyway I asked for other people opinion, not to debate mine. Although I am not objecting to that if you do it respectfully and staying on topic.

[SmokeyTheGoat]

If you're a straight male, why would you choose Karlach, who looks like a red dude, over Shadowheart? Seems pretty obvious to me why not many people would choose Karlach.

[Mk]

Originally posted by SmokeyTheGoat:

If you're a straight male, why would you choose Karlach, who looks like a red dude, over Shadowheart? Seems pretty obvious to me why not many people would choose Karlach.

thank you for your kind reply. I agree with your opinion here but I would like to know if there are any reasons for you to like / dislike Karlach as a game companion rather than for romance. I took your reply for obvious and granted, so I didn't ask to know if Karlach is preferable as a romance option. Rather if you like how Karlach is portrayed in game or if she puts you off for some reason

[Helldivers™ 2]

It is something from hell so since I have wyll with me, it dies.

Maybe my 5th playthrough will have karlach... maybe.

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by Starmender:

"Aside from subjective aspect (her animations) there are some more objective reasons: her animation" lol

lol indeed. That's Karlach haters in a nutshell. They just hate her because they can't own up to the fact that she's the best girl and they actually love her.

Don't bother replying, I said what I said.

[seeker1]

To answer points already made in this thread: bearing in mind, I really hate claiming subjective preferences are "objective" or that your perceptions are, either, when they aren't .... to be clear, you may dislike her or like her for whatever your reasons are, but claiming there are objective reasons for either is to elevate your own preferences to a feigned objectivity.

1. I don't think she looks like a dude. Her body and appearance are very feminine, even if she is a strong tall woman (this is because she is a tiefling, and also been fighting in a war for ten years), who also happens to have one horn (she should have two). I also don't see what's "masculine" about her camp idle animations. I notice she's often dancing a jig in place. Well, she says staying in camp is boring, so I guess this is her way of keeping herself entertained. But I don't see anything "masculine" about the way she dances in place.

2. Her swearing doesn't bother me, but I've said that. I don't think it doesn't fit the setting, and if there's something I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hate, it's that my character can't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ swear more. I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ enjoy swearing at Gortash, and when he says Karlach is rubbing off on me, I just wish I could reply, "♥♥♥♥ yes you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥".

I hope that was clear.

3. Besides the swearing, I have no idea what saying "she sounds more modern" than the other companions even MEANS. I think she talks in a way that sounds like a poor tiefling girl raised on the other side of the tracks, who then literally spent ten years in hell, sounds like. If anything what amazes me is her bright bubbly personality, in spite of having spent ten years in hell fighting in a brutal war, and then finding out she's dying to boot, because of being betrayed by the guy she worked for. However, the reason why I think she acts this way is ... that IS her underlying personality, her experiences didn't take away that personality from her, and in part, it's a coping mechanism for what she's facing.

4. She likes to put on a nice front of being brave and happy, but the cracks in that facade start to show in Act 3. In reality, she's sad, angry, terrified, and really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pissed at the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (Gortash) who betrayed her and caused her situation. But what I love about Karlach is she will tell Tav she loves him/her even if they are not romancing her ... it's not romantic love ... but she knows having a friend like Tav isn't something she's had for ten years, and she loves that someone CARES ABOUT HER. After she was abandoned and betrayed for so much of her life, and left to face the horrors of Avernus and the Blood War ... all alone.

It is so hearfelt that she will tell a Tav - who is NOT romancing her - will you be with me when it's time to go. Because I can face it - IF you're there. Deep down, what I love about Karlach, is she loves you back, even for just being a friend to her.

5. Saying she's in the game as a "political statement" is idiotic.

[Mapher]

Karlach is the best. I don't romance her but to me she is a Golden Retriever. I have to tell myself to use someone else in my party other than her every play through.

[HorribleGamer]

gonna get flack for this. I fireballed Karlach to death when I first saw her...believing that swill that wyll was pushing, which in turn he was lied to about. she is best girl.

[HorribleGamer]

Originally posted by SmokeyTheGoat:

If you're a straight male, why would you choose Karlach, who looks like a red dude, over Shadowheart? Seems pretty obvious to me why not many people would choose Karlach.

bro, Karlach is best girl. Actually interact with her next time, and you will see what we all mean. HEARTSTRINGS BRO!

[Orion Invictus]

Originally posted by seeker1:

5. Saying she's in the game as a "political statement" is idiotic.

Some people just love making everything political.

Keep your politics out of our video games, OP.

[seeker1]

Originally posted by Helldivers™ 2:

It is something from hell so since I have wyll with me, it dies. Maybe my 5th playthrough will have karlach... maybe

Though she is a tiefling, she was born in the city. She is "from" Faerun. You can find her parent's graves (the Cliffgates) in the cemetary. She will tell you they had a hard life, probably because of prejudice against tieflings, and thus she grew up poor. So poor, the first work she could find is as a bodyguard for this minor noble and arms merchant in the city named Enver Gortash. And then you know the rest of the story ...

Because of that a-hole, she was SENT to the hells, experimented on by Zariel, had her Infernal Engine placed in her body, and then spent ten years fighting in a Blood War that she never wanted to be part of - and as she tells you, she tried to escape at her first opportunity, though that escape also wound up getting her ... tadpoled.

Spoilers?

Wyll only wants to kill her because, shock, Zariel now wants her dead, and using her pawn Mizora to lie to Wyll, manipulate Wyll into killing her. But of course, Wyll can ultimately figure out that, shock, Mizora has been lying to him about who and what Karlach really is. Unfortunately, bucking Mizora's demand gets him his new set of horns.

I always personally headcanon that if Wyll as Blade of Avernus goes with Karlach to the hells at the end, they end up romancing each other. You can tell that once they realize the deception is over, they realize their inclinations toward doing good are similar, and they start liking each other, and possibly more.

Anyway, generally speaking, tieflings aren't necessarily born in or "from" the hells. Many are born right on Faerun like Karlach. A lot of the Elturel tiefling refugees living in Elturel when it was just an ordinary city right in Faerun ... it was later shenanigans that wound up having Elturel sent INTO the hells, in Descent Into Avernus. And the tieflings living there were blamed for it, though they had nothing to do with it.

Scapegoating people for looking different. Hmmm. Yes, as has been said here many times, just because they may have some demon or devil ancestry in them from a few generations back, doesn't mean they are evil ... and Karlach is not. (Though it IS possible to give her an "evil ending".)

[Mk]

Originally posted by seeker1:

To answer points already made in this thread: bearing in mind, I really hate claiming subjective preferences are "objective" or that your perceptions are, either, when they aren't .... to be clear, you may dislike her or like her for whatever your reasons are, but claiming there are objective reasons for either is to elevate your own preferences to a feigned objectivity.

1. I don't think she looks like a dude. Her body and appearance are very feminine, even if she is a strong tall woman (this is because she is a tiefling, and also been fighting in a war for ten years), who also happens to have one horn (she should have two). I also don't see what's "masculine" about her camp idle animations. I notice she's often dancing a jig in place. Well, she says staying in camp is boring, so I guess this is her way of keeping herself entertained. But I don't see anything "masculine" about the way she dances in place.

2. Her swearing doesn't bother me, but I've said that. I don't think it doesn't fit the setting, and if there's something I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hate, it's that my character can't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ swear more. I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ enjoy swearing at Gortash, and when he says Karlach is rubbing off on me, I just wish I could reply, "♥♥♥♥ yes you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥".

I hope that was clear.

3. Besides the swearing, I have no idea what saying "she sounds more modern" than the other companions even MEANS. I think she talks in a way that sounds like a poor tiefling girl raised on the other side of the tracks, who then literally spent ten years in hell, sounds like. If anything what amazes me is her bright bubbly personality, in spite of having spent ten years in hell fighting in a brutal war, and then finding out she's dying to boot, because of being betrayed by the guy she worked for. However, the reason why I think she acts this way is ... that IS her underlying personality, her experiences didn't take away that personality from her, and in part, it's a coping mechanism for what she's facing.

4. She likes to put on a nice front of being brave and happy, but the cracks in that facade start to show in Act 3. In reality, she's sad, angry, terrified, and really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pissed at the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (Gortash) who betrayed her and caused her situation. But what I love about Karlach is she will tell Tav she loves him/her even if they are not romancing her ... it's not romantic love ... but she knows having a friend like Tav isn't something she's had for ten years, and she loves that someone CARES ABOUT HER. After she was abandoned and betrayed for so much of her life, and left to face the horrors of Avernus and the Blood War ... all alone.

It is so hearfelt that she will tell a Tav - who is NOT romancing her - will you be with me when it's time to go. Because I can face it - IF you're there. Deep down, what I love about Karlach, is she loves you back, even for just being a friend to her.

5. Saying she's in the game as a "political statement" is idiotic.

Thanks, we got the general idea that you are on the like Karlach team and spent time explaining why you don't see an issue with her using a language that other characters do not use.

Anyone else caring to explain why they like or dislike Karlach without debating why I find her rather annoying both for personal taste and for in-game reasons?

Take it like this: it’s subjective if you'd hate Karlach-like or love Karlach-like no matter in what game a similar character appears.
If that's the case, it's not what I am asking.

Are there specific in-game reasons that make you say "wow, Larian did a good job" or rather "eek, what a poor character have they made here!"

[Яeplicant]

Originally posted by Orion Invictus:

Originally posted by seeker1:

5. Saying she's in the game as a "political statement" is idiotic.

Some people just love making everything political.

Keep your politics out of our video games, OP.

Tell him that again in the other thread, he's been spamming with essays.

Man, now I am convinced he has nothing better to do all day.

[Starmender]

Originally posted by Mk:

Take it like this: it’s subjective if you'd hate Karlach-like or love Karlach-like no matter in what game a similar character appears.
If that's the case, it's not what I am asking.

Are there specific in-game reasons that make you say "wow, Larian did a good job" or rather "eek, what a poor character have they made here!"

Thing is, there are no "objective" reasons to like or dislike someone. If there were, either everyone would like her or everyone would dislike her. There wouldn't be any split opinions.

The reasons you've listed for disliking her are absolutely subjective. Personally I don't see anything even remotely "manly" about her animations. And as for her vocabulary, I can't really recall anything "modern" aside from swearing, which doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I actually liked it. And she's not the only character in the game that swears, just the one that does it more often.

To answer about why I like her: it's because how wholesome, cute, kind and adorable she is.