Why is bg3 crafting sytem so bad?

[northernwater]

It basically does not exist. Same company that did DOS2 and they have a nice system in one and crap system in the other.

Maybe it was budget. They needed more mo-cap and skippable dialog, I'm guessing.

[harken23]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Razorblade:

D:OS2 had an equally terrible crafting system; all you could make were a few types of potions, jury-rigged equipment for the early game, very low-damage poisoned weapons, and runes. If there were more things to craft than in BG3, it was hardly more.

Are you sure you're not confusing D:OS1 and D:OS2? D:OS1 had an actual crafting system, unlike D:OS2's pathetic one.

Hey, the Jack-O-Lantern helmet in DOS1 is cool.

[jonnin]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Fitness Lauch:

Unpopular opinion but imo RPGs without crafting are better. It almost never hits a sweet spot, it's either totally op or useless and usually tedious to grind on top of that. Just look at how awful the crafting in Skyrim for example.

skyrim is a very basic effort = reward model. It has some exploits because bad implementation, but if you don't use the exploits, its about right for the game's content. Not only do you need to grind it excessively to max it out, but each item requires you to kill a high level enemy and steal its energy or lifeforce or whatever it is to make something. (The exploit is to craft potions that improve enchanting, then enchant gear that improves potion making, in a loop, until your values go up and up forever and make game breaking items).

I like the way diablo 3 did it. In 3, you can simply create an item and roll its properties on a table, you get what you get at great cost, so getting something amazing is single digit % chances. And you can replace 1 property at great expense, also randomly. The crafting mini-game is, then, the gold-sink for the game and just by its RNG nature also a grind/time-sink. That kinda worked in DOS2 ... you got randomized loot and could get more/better of it by investing in a skill at the cost of a more powerful character. So my ideal would randomized crafting, but at least *able* to make the thing you want -- so if you WANT that exotic nobody sells these and they never drop weapon type, at least you have an avenue to play that weapon type and get *something*. I think BG3 missed the boat on that front, with some weapons being very rare and difficult to find upgrades, while others like daggers and longswords rain on your head.

[JeffoftheAll]

Crafting grew into a bloated monster over the years, if I hear a game has great crafting I run!

[Mike Garrison]

One thing I disliked in D:OS2 (and many other games) is the "level" system for gear. Like, a Level 4 sword is better than a Level 3 sword just because, so you are constantly having to loot and craft and rebuilt your loadout. In D&D it's more about the characters leveling up, not their gear. A 20th level fighter can use the same sword as a 1st level fighter, but is going to use it much, much better.

[seeker1]

As an interesting aside, quite a few equipment mods are designed so that different abilities on the sword (or whatever) only are unlocked as the wielder levels up. Skirbie does all his weapons that way. Sure, they're "OP" as folks say, but you don't unlock the Cleave of Devasting Slashiness until level 11.

This game definitely has a sort of "level tier" for gear insofar as gear can be Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare, or Legendary, with the Legendary (orange border) stuff always being the best.... and usually almost always +3 or +4.

There are some equipment mods where you can upgrade the item, but you do that via various kinds of objects you find along the way. Like there's one where you can upgrade Phalar Aluve to legendary status, but only if you find music boxes to upgrade it. Those are basically crafting type mods. As I view that as ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ make-work to upgrade the item, I almost never use those. Because, again, generally speaking, for the most part, I hate crafting.

I'm Ok with a weapon that levels up with me. I hate having to search for stupid miscellaneous doo-dads to upgrade it.

[Raz]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย seeker1:

This game definitely has a sort of "level tier" for gear insofar as gear can be Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare, or Legendary, with the Legendary (orange border) stuff always being the best.... and usually almost always +3 or +4.

There is not a single Legendary that gives a +4 in the entire game. Modded, probably. Base game, no.

And that "always being best" is doing a crap ton of heavy lifting. Many Legendary weapons, would even say armors, are side grades at worst, and marginally better at best.

Unseen Menace can compete for best in slot for any 2H Great Weapon Master user due to it have Advantage innately built in, and giving a -1 for Critical Rolls which 2H weapons lack in general with no other source of a Main weapon for 2H that gives a -1 for Critical Rolls, let alone another weapon that is high grade that gives Advantage on all forms of melee attack, and not just specific instances (Halbred from the Bugbear only gives Advantage on Opportunity Attacks).

Handmaiden's Mace & Shattered Flail can easily replace Blood of Lathandar or Devotee's Mace as the latter two don't really increase your damage beyond their Enchantments with Blood of Lathandar lagging behind even more so, and Handmaiden's Mace gives you instant 18 Strength with its 1d6 Poison damage, whereas the Shattered Flail at least keeps you healed for some wonky builds.

Bloodthirst gets completely replaced by Rhapsody on its own, worse if you have the Bhaalist armor and depending on build, Dolor Amarus is better than either for a critical hitter than any of the Very Rares above it.

Crimson Mischief is clearly meant to be used with Bloodthirst and they balance each other out because the perk you'd really want from each is Main-hand only so there is a trade-off you'd have to balance. Though, at least Crimson's trade-off isn't as bad of a prospect as Bloodthirst, and the damage lose from Crimson being an offhand is only a 2 damage.

Titanstring Bow is the best in slot bow for a Strength build, or anyone chugging a Strength potion with no exception. No other bow allows you to still abuse damage riders in Honour mode making it the defacto best bow and its a Rare you get in Act 1.

The only Legendaries you could dub best in slot would be the two Greatswords and one of them has a downgraded version you get in Act 1 that if you don't get the Orphic Hammer for whatever reason, still is nearly comparable to the Silver Sword of the Astral Plane; Nyrulina which is a complete upgrade over The Returning Pike, though the Pike holds the entire game until then for a Thrower build; Markoheshkir if assuming you're an elemental build cause Woe + Cherished Necromancy is a disgusting combo for a Necromancy spell users to give enemies Disadvantage to all their spells while healing due to them failing saving throws. Shar's Spear of Evening for Darkness build shenanigans.

So out of 13 Legendary Weapons, only 5 can be argued to be best in slot, two of the 5 needing to be contextualized with build defining them as best in slot, and the rest are all sidegrades, can be replaced, or not really needed.

[northernwater]

So I guess the takeaway here is that the crafting system is bad because they chose to not do one.

[Raz]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย northernwater:

So I guess the takeaway here is that the crafting system is bad because they chose to not do one.

Crazy you needed help coming to that conclusion. Guess you're not Watson. Nor is it elementary, my dear.

[seeker1]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Raz:

And that "always being best" is doing a crap ton of heavy lifting. Many Legendary weapons, would even say armors, are side grades at worst, and marginally better at best.

I won't quibble with any of your points; seems to me to be another theory/practice issue.

Seems in their system, Larian intended in theory for Legendary Items to be the best items in the game. In practice, they often aren't.

And NWater, all I would say is, a good reading of the thread supports the conclusion they didn't include a crafting system (beyond the limited ones that are quest based and alchemy) because most players hate it and never asked for it.

I'm trying not to unfairly extend my own personal preferences as to violently disliking most CRPG crafting systems onto others - but it sure seemed to me almost everybody else chiming in didn't really like them, either.

[WuTaNiSt]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย northernwater:

So I guess the takeaway here is that the crafting system is bad because they chose to not do one.

For your next trick I'm looking forward to a treatise on why the penalty shootouts in test cricket are "so bad."