Noob Bard Question (Why so OP?)

[VigilanteJustice]

So I'm thinking of starting a Bard build, but I have a question. How are they so OP? I mean, for example, at level one, they have 4 spell usages and 2 cantrips. But when they run out of those 4 spells (two of which I plan to use for healing), what then? I'm out? I just hit the rest of the dungeon with my standard hand-crossbow (I'm going Drow) and nothing else? Thanks! Love the game! I'm not complaining, just a little lost, lol.

[KRON]

What do you mean 4 spell usages at level 1? They have 2 level 1 spell slots at level 1, the same as every other caster class.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by VigilanteJustice:

Noob Bard Question (Why so OP?)
So I'm thinking of starting a Bard build, but I have a question. How are they so OP? I mean, for example, at level one, they have 4 spell usages and 2 cantrips. But when they run out of those 4 spells (two of which I plan to use for healing), what then? I'm out? I just hit the rest of the dungeon with my standard hand-crossbow (I'm going Drow) and nothing else? Thanks! Love the game! I'm not complaining, just a little lost, lol.

They are incredible versatile.

Spells - check
Melee - check
Range - check
Charismatic - check
Medium armour - check

And so much more.

Try The Bard build here and see yourself with double handcrossbow / double daggers
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3124459563
Add cull the weak ilithid power to the mix and you have a killing machine like no other who can do pretty much everything.

[FunkyMonkey]

Bard is a subtle class to play and requires some knowledge of the game and the mechanics to play effectively. For example, if you are planning on using your spells on healing spells, that is a sign that you may be new to this game and DnD 5e. In DnD 5e and BG3, healing is not an effective playstyle.

Bards are excellent support characters and debuffers. Use your spells on things like Faerie fire, Bane and Dissonant whispers at the lower levels. Bards are good at controlling the enemies. You should have Vicious mockery as a cantrip to use instead of hand crossbow, it does little damage and debuffs their next attack.

In general, stay away from healing spells. Take Healing word and use it if someone goes to 0 HP to pick them up. Trying to do MMO type healing is not a thing in this game. Control and take out enemies with your spells instead of trying to heal the damage they do.

[Raz]

Well, you're only level one. The power of characters grow exponentially with leveling, with gear being additive, though some gear makes it skyrocket as well.

For right now, you'd primarily use your Spell Slots as a get-out-of-trouble kind of card, or to keep enemies from absolutely wrecking your ♥♥♥♥ in with the quickness. If you picked the Sleep spell, that junk is a massive broken godsend in the early game because enemies put to sleep can be hit at 100% accuracy and have 100% chance to be critical hit when attacked from melee range by anything in said melee range, just has to be melee range.

Just hitting Lv3 is a word of difference from Lv1 Bard and depending on which College you go, Lv6 Bard breaks the game and keeps breaking it from there depending on what gear you find and give them.

It's possible for a Mid-game to End-Game Bard to have basically 100% chance to deny multiple enemies their turn, including bosses, which would give allies 100% hit rate and 100% critical chance on said enemies that are being affected by the Bard's Hold Person spell.

[Jehane]

Bards are awesome! I'm in my second playthrough with a woodelf bard. It's insane what she could do even at a lower level and now at level 7, she's incredible. If she has to, she can fight and is really good at it, too, because woodelf. I pretty much have her do spells that confuse or distract enemies, use Bardic Inspiration a lot and, when necessary, Healing Word if Shadowheart is not around or one of the others has run out of healing potions but otherwise, that's Shadowheart's job. She's much better at it anyway.

My favourites have to be Vicious Mockery and Tasha's Hideous Laughter. It always cracks me up when the big baddies roll around on the floor laughing like idiots before getting killed 😁 Oh, and I love the dialogue options you get for a bard, they are so pompous and over the top sometimes.

Bottom line, she's way more fun to play than the drow wizard I had for my first playthrough and actually more effective in many ways, too. Never expected a bard to be this powerful as I haven't played D&D yet (it's still on our group's "need to play"-list). Love it.

[VigilanteJustice]

As I said, I'm noob. Doesn't the Bard have auras? Songs that affect everyone? Do I just have to level up?

I guess I'm just confused what I'm supposed to do after I use my spells up? So, I have 2 spell slots, and then I use them. 1. 2. Then I can't do anything except basic attacks after that? Just standard attacks until I rest again? Is it like that for all spell casters?

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by VigilanteJustice:

As I said, I'm noob. Doesn't the Bard have auras? Songs that affect everyone? Do I just have to level up?

Bards *used* *to* have something like that, in older versions of D&D. These days they have "bardic inspiration" which works differently but sort of serves the same function.

[Raz]

You have Cantrips, or should have selected some. Usually a Bard has Vicious Mockery as their main Cantrip. You wouldn't really blow your Spell Slots unless it is needed. Cantrips can go quite far generally. If you're going College of Valour or Sword Bard, then yeah, basic attacks when you hit Lv6 is an option since you get Extra Attack. Glamour goes heavier into the spell Crowd Control.

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by VigilanteJustice:

I guess I'm just confused what I'm supposed to do after I use my spells up? So, I have 2 spell slots, and then I use them. 1. 2. Then I can't do anything except basic attacks after that? Just standard attacks until I rest again? Is it like that for all spell casters?

At very low levels, all casters are quite prone to quickly using up their spell slots and having to resort to "basic attacks" (although in current D&D they have "cantrips", so they aren't as weak in that regard as older versions of D&D).

You will find yourself at the end of the game hardly ever using up all your spell slots, because you will have a lot of them by then.

[Vulf]

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

healing is not an effective playstyle.

There's an amulet of health which maximizes all healing rolls the wearer receives, makes them a pretty good beatstick especially when you have the potions that heal 60hp for a single bonus action, but healing spells cast on them get maximized too. A Life Cleric gets extra healing onto their spells, the Paladin of Ancients gets a decent healing channel divinity and an okay bonus action heal they can sustain for a minute at 9th level. Healing becomes twice as effective on a barbarian that resists damage, and temporary hitpoints go a long way.

There's plenty of in-combat healing in the game, you just need to build for it.

[Raz]

Originally posted by Vulf:

There's plenty of in-combat healing in the game, you just need to build for it.

All of which does not require an Action or Bonus Point. Folks who say healing is trash in the game are weighing it against an Action Point and are coming from the Perspective you do NOT have a Life Cleric as that is the only time healing from a Cleric is usually worth it unless you have gear to support that healing.

Absolutely zero reason to heal for 4HP on a 1d12 when you can spend that bonus point casting Sanctuary on them instead, then getting them out of dodge for them to down a bigger potion since they won't have an Action Point, or setting it up so they can attack while breaking a potion at the same time to heal themselves (dropping a potion at their feet, using cleave or some AoE to bust both potion and whacking the enemy).

Flind's Shattered Mace: Heals by just doing what you normally do: bonk ♥♥♥♥.

Robes of the Wavemother: Heals for standing in water. Something you're likely doing a lot if you're building for Cold or Lightning damage.

Necklace of the Drunkard: Funny build with Wildheart Barbarian and the Punch Drunk

Derviation Cloak: 1d4 heal on poisoning someone.

Note; all this at no cost of an action point, just doing the things you normally do anyways.

Only other heal at the cost of an action point that usually is worth it is Paladin Oath heals because they are static and not left up to chance with a low floor roll.

[Fitness Lauch]

It's only ranged swords bard which is really op for several reasons:
- You can use ranged flourish on the same target and it only costs one action, so effectively you can attack one target with 4 arrows each turn (without any other buffs) which all deal extra damage and they reset on a short rest. That only works after level 6 however.
- Itemization heavily favours swords bard: helmet of arcane acuity make sure that you pass spell save DC checks from opponents which you would normally not pass if you'd build them like a normal archer without caring about spell save dc.
Also band of mystic scoundrel allows you to cast some cc spells as bonus action instead of your main action so you can just shoot 4 arrows into one target which gives you arcane acuity stacks. Next thing you do is cast a cc spell like command, confusion, hypnotic pattern, hold monster on the opponents and hit them almost guaranteed.
There's a really good bow early on (Titanstring Bow) which you can use together with that club which gives you 19 strength (later on you want to replace it with rhapsody and Deadshot however).
- You have full caster progression and access to level 6 spells, including the level 6 water elemental which is completely nuts.
- You're the best party face in the game and will easily pass almost all dialogue checks.

Originally posted by Vulf:

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

healing is not an effective playstyle.

There's an amulet of health which maximizes all healing rolls the wearer receives, makes them a pretty good beatstick especially when you have the potions that heal 60hp for a single bonus action, but healing spells cast on them get maximized too. A Life Cleric gets extra healing onto their spells, the Paladin of Ancients gets a decent healing channel divinity and an okay bonus action heal they can sustain for a minute at 9th level. Healing becomes twice as effective on a barbarian that resists damage, and temporary hitpoints go a long way.

There's plenty of in-combat healing in the game, you just need to build for it.

Life cleric is pretty much the exception tho, it's one of these things which is overpowered but somehow nobody is talking about it (same as nobody is talking about how overpowered awakened is). Life cleric is pretty broken and one of the strongest and most versatile classes in the game (their beacon of hope spell also makes every healing onto allies within the aura to automatically max roll which effectively doubles all healing received) imo but outside of that healing is indeed rather bad.

[jonnin]

the bard cantrip does the lowest damage of all of them. Its nice that the target can't hit you after, and you can use it for that against some nasty targets, but its meh in most fights where that isn't useful.
As for spells, bards get just enough damage spells to wing it as a near-wizard. They can be quite nasty as a cast then shoot offhand crossbow, but that requires adding stat to offhand, and better, if you had thief (2 offhand shots).

As a CHA based character, they are good for tav to talk to people, and can cast friends and such. Their spells, armor, weapons, and skills and whole package can handle any situation well.

Their weakness is subtle. They are not the best at anything, so for whatever role you eventually find yourself in most of the time, you trade off being not quite as good as you could have been in exchange for playing another role on demand if things go sideways.

The bard class historically has been a rollercoaster. Some versions of it were so bad no one would ever want to play it, and some versions were so good its hard to not love it (one of the versions, NWN2 I think, you could sing to heal the whole party up (slowly) without any spells at all, and there were a variety of songs that had other effects like magic on top of spells and weapons! This version is one of the best. The only thing I would see (and it may exist, I don't keep up with 5e extensions) is a subclass that traded something for sneak attack/stealth builds (probably no med armor or shield, maybe do 1/2 sneak like pathfinder or give something up somewhere).

[KRON]

Originally posted by jonnin:

the bard cantrip does the lowest damage of all of them. Its nice that the target can't hit you after, and you can use it for that against some nasty targets, but its meh in most fights where that isn't useful.

But the funny insult, though.

[jonnin]

Originally posted by KRON:

Originally posted by jonnin:

the bard cantrip does the lowest damage of all of them. Its nice that the target can't hit you after, and you can use it for that against some nasty targets, but its meh in most fights where that isn't useful.

But the funny insult, though.

they really, really, really should have borrowed bg1's 'mutton mongering' line in those.