A good gish build for Lae'zel ? (for Vaniila BG3)

[Die Dame des Berges]

I am looking for a good gish build for Lae'zel, combining either str+int or str+cha as main attributes
I am aware that there is the eldritch knight class but I was turned off by it, because I understand the spell progression is way way too slow

Any suggestions ?

[seeker1]

I always make her a mix of Psi Warrior, Forceblade Mind Weaver, and Kirh'rak. That requires mods, of course. I agree she should be a gish, I just think as a Gith she should be a psionic gish.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Pure Bladesinger.

[FunkyMonkey]

Publicado originalmente por Die Dame des Berges:

I am looking for a good gish build for Lae'zel, combining either str+int or str+cha as main attributes
I am aware that there is the eldritch knight class but I was turned off by it, because I understand the spell progression is way way too slow

Any suggestions ?

You could do a mix of Eldritch knight and Wizard to speed up your spell progression, that might give what you are looking for.

[Mike Garrison]

"Gish" characters are very overrated. You still only have one action.

Eldritch Knight is usually my pick for Lae'zel. You get Shield. You get bonded weapon. You can cast some cantrips. I usually give her Longstrider so she can buff the party. She gets one Misty Step for being Gith, but you can also give her scrolls or gear that has it.

[jonnin]

Its hard to beat the built in gish classes with any kind of multiclass homebrew.
You have the warlock, who uses cha in place of str/dex to wield a weapon, and as a gith you have medium armor. You can cast 3 high level spells (level 5) per short rest which can blow up a multitude of encounters as you generally only need 1 spell per fight outside of bosses, and a bard adds a short rest, giving you 9 high level spells per sleep.

Or the bard, who can fight, cast nukes, and also half-cleric equally well while filling in as the locksmith too.

Nothing you can hand craft will out perform either of those in terms of raw melee power and raw spell power. The problem is attacks per round: no real (full?) caster gets extra attacks per round and no extra-attack class gets high level spells.

BG3 specifically will let you cast scrolls as a fighter (or anything else) and use items that cast spells. You can therefore make a 'jarlaxle' type character that relies on scrolls and toys to add magic to melee in a deadly fashion. The massive amount of available items and scrolls and potions makes this very viable.

while you can't nuke worth a darn, a multiclassed fighter/caster can do well using self buffs like shield, mirror image, even mage armor (monk) or blur and so on to be near untouchable while dancing through the enemy. Most martial classes don't get very much after level 5 or 6, so an eldrich knight or a caster rogue can fight well and then take caster levels to get access to a decent spell list. Even the level 1 thunder spell that knocks ANYTHING backwards can be used to gravity kill groups.

Another option is the dual crossbow rogue 3. With 3 levels of rogue, you can fire your offhand crossbow twice, and cast a spell with your main hand each round. This is a very strong (esp for bard) caster multiclass build. You can obviously do the same with a offhand melee weapon, if you prefer. A touch attack cause wounds cleric can make this kind of build extremely nasty.

Speaking of which, the cleric can sorta pull this off. A high str cleric with 1 level of monk gets a few melee hits in and has armor, shield, and several of the cleric domains make you a mini-mage for nukes and blasting. Most people don't consider clerics to be a true gish, but it kinda works with the lightning or light domains.

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por Die Dame des Berges:

I am looking for a good gish build for Lae'zel, combining either str+int or str+cha as main attributes
I am aware that there is the eldritch knight class but I was turned off by it, because I understand the spell progression is way way too slow

Any suggestions ?

Fire Draconic Sorcereress.
Play her as a duthka'gith (githyanki infused with red dragon blood, created by Vlaakith to be her elite troops, akin to pretorians).

[NoRain :( 🗕 🗗 🗙]

I mean the answer's pretty simple. If you don't like the Fighter Eldritch Knight, then you could probably get away with a Wizard. Githyanki have proficiency in Medium Armour and Greatswords. You could just be a glass cannon strong-armed Wizard, but then you need to be mindful that you're forgoing basically any of the combat specific buffs.

If you think the progression is too slow, look at some of the MC builds people are suggesting. If you want a pure class, it's either going to be Wizard or Paladin; can't do most of the Rogue Arcane Trickster stuff without using finesse weapons, which would likely defeat the style you're going for

E: a popular one is warlock, but I personally have never loved the way the work, and don't understand why people play them. If you're going to play a charisma class, imho warlock is probably the weakest pick

[jonnin]

Publicado originalmente por NoRain :( 🗕 🗗 🗙:

I mean the answer's pretty simple. If you don't like the Fighter Eldritch Knight, then you could probably get away with a Wizard. Githyanki have proficiency in Medium Armour and Greatswords. You could just be a glass cannon strong-armed Wizard, but then you need to be mindful that you're forgoing basically any of the combat specific buffs.

If you think the progression is too slow, look at some of the MC builds people are suggesting. If you want a pure class, it's either going to be Wizard or Paladin; can't do most of the Rogue Arcane Trickster stuff without using finesse weapons, which would likely defeat the style you're going for

E: a popular one is warlock, but I personally have never loved the way the work, and don't understand why people play them. If you're going to play a charisma class, imho warlock is probably the weakest pick

I get not liking the warlock class. But its not weak? You can use any melee weapon in the game as if proficient and with your cha score to hit & damage, with 2 attacks at 5th. And it has powerful spells auto upcast to your level/ability and a powerful cantrip. It also has more cheese than most if you are into that, with see in dark/ cast dark / smash stuff or aoe/blast back into the aoe if escapes or blast off the cliff tactics. What do you think is weak about it? A wizard or sorcerer gith with a sword... can't attack twice and so isn't ever going to be interesting at melee. Without that second attack, even a 27 str 2h weapon whack isn't gaining you much ground and put you in harm's way for your one swing. Is it really worth it vs a 3d10+stuff cantrip?

Now if you said bard, I would buy it. Bard is a fine caster/fighter hybrid and if you want to argue that its better than a warlock, I won't even try to say otherwise (I like both and the bard is actually probably slightly stronger overall, though the warlock probably eeks out a little more damage dealing at 12, the bard can do a lot more useful stuff).

[Mike Garrison]

I'm actually playing a Gith wizard character right now. Her attributes are INT (of course) and DEX, and I gave her medium armor.

Gith get medium armor proficiency but *not* shields, which lends itself to the idea of dual-wielding short swords. They are finesse weapons so you don't need strength.

She's a lot more competent in close combat than a regular wizard, but it's probably better to use Shocking Touch than a sword. However, if she's not going to use her bonus action for anything, making an off-hand attack is still better than nothing.

By Act 2 you can dual wield some powerful short shorts, so maybe that might outpace Shocking Touch.

Anyway, I play her as a wizard, not a "gish", She's just a somewhat more melee-capable wizard.

I might switch her later to Phalar Aluve, once I get it. She can still use DEX with that, and she could help the rest of the party with the special abilities even without using the sword for melee. We'll see.

I'm actually playing her to see what Enchantment Wizard is like, not because I was trying to build a melee wizard.

[NoRain :( 🗕 🗗 🗙]

Publicado originalmente por jonnin:

Publicado originalmente por NoRain :( 🗕 🗗 🗙:

I mean the answer's pretty simple. If you don't like the Fighter Eldritch Knight, then you could probably get away with a Wizard. Githyanki have proficiency in Medium Armour and Greatswords. You could just be a glass cannon strong-armed Wizard, but then you need to be mindful that you're forgoing basically any of the combat specific buffs.

If you think the progression is too slow, look at some of the MC builds people are suggesting. If you want a pure class, it's either going to be Wizard or Paladin; can't do most of the Rogue Arcane Trickster stuff without using finesse weapons, which would likely defeat the style you're going for

E: a popular one is warlock, but I personally have never loved the way the work, and don't understand why people play them. If you're going to play a charisma class, imho warlock is probably the weakest pick

I get not liking the warlock class. But its not weak? You can use any melee weapon in the game as if proficient and with your cha score to hit & damage, with 2 attacks at 5th. And it has powerful spells auto upcast to your level/ability and a powerful cantrip. It also has more cheese than most if you are into that, with see in dark/ cast dark / smash stuff or aoe/blast back into the aoe if escapes or blast off the cliff tactics. What do you think is weak about it? A wizard or sorcerer gith with a sword... can't attack twice and so isn't ever going to be interesting at melee. Without that second attack, even a 27 str 2h weapon whack isn't gaining you much ground and put you in harm's way for your one swing. Is it really worth it vs a 3d10+stuff cantrip?

Now if you said bard, I would buy it. Bard is a fine caster/fighter hybrid and if you want to argue that its better than a warlock, I won't even try to say otherwise (I like both and the bard is actually probably slightly stronger overall, though the warlock probably eeks out a little more damage dealing at 12, the bard can do a lot more useful stuff).

Of all the charisma picks, Warlock just feels the weakest. Sorcerer, Paladin, and Bard actually have a reasonable progression, whereas Warlock I just feel is lacklustre -- a one trick pony more or less. Half of the time the spells are mediocre, even if they're upcast. Most people just dump everything into Eldritch Blast and play for ledging, but I've just never been a fan of this. It's an easy way to cheese fights, sure, but it also means you're usually unable to collect certain loot. When I think of a charisma class, I think of someone that's actually good at dialogue -- that's why whenever that's my focus, I'll go with Bard or a Rogue Dex/Cha split because of expertise. Better pricing, better chance at having encounters go your way without save scumming.

Also because the guy is specifically citing that they want STR/CHA as the main attributes. The one benefit of Warlock is not having to put your stats into STR because it's going into DEX to boost your AC and initiative. Defeats what they're looking for

I originally didn't even think about Bard as an option because I associate them with Dex instead of Str, which is why I wrote off Rogue. You could probably make a Gith Bard, but I imagined OP wanted to go with two-handed weapons, and the two combat subclasses for Bard revolve around dual-wielding more than anything else.

[jeffy]

having the magic missle spell with lazel makes the game easy

its guaranteed damaged at a far distance. youll never miss.

[jonnin]

When I think of a charisma class, I think of someone that's actually good at dialogue -- that's why whenever that's my focus, I'll go with Bard or a Rogue Dex/Cha split because of expertise. Better pricing, better chance at having encounters go your way without save scumming.

Also because the guy is specifically citing that they want STR/CHA as the main attributes. The one benefit of Warlock is not having to put your stats into STR because it's going into DEX to boost your AC and initiative. Defeats what they're looking for

I originally didn't even think about Bard as an option because I associate them with Dex instead of Str, which is why I wrote off Rogue. You could probably make a Gith Bard, but I imagined OP wanted to go with two-handed weapons, and the two combat subclasses for Bard revolve around dual-wielding more than anything else.

Ah, I see. I agree with this, thank you. I know the OP said strength, but I took that to just mean he wanted a warrior mage and didn't know that there were other ways to do that. But if you take it literally as str only, yea, you are 100% correct.

[cirugo]

if I don't keep her a fighter then I usually make her an open-hand monk with high dex and wis scores and tavern brawler feat and use the hill giant strength potions to compensate for lower strength. She hits like a truck.

[Zeon]

I'd probably keep her a fighter(eldritch knight?) or maybe a full paladin(oathbreaker?)

[attiladafun]

Yeah, Gith make for powerful monks, but Astarion makes a better monk, and I want someone who can use the special Gith gear. She becomes a tank as an abjuration wizard, but to use the gear effectively she should be a bard/sorcerer hybrid.