[Spoilers!] Gale's (romance) ending is completely unsatisfying and his story unfinished - thoughts?

[Mish(adventure)]

Hi everyone,

Is anyone else deeply unsatisfied with Gale's ending? To me, it's the most solid example that Larian rushed to complete the game and sacrificed the story in BG3 in the process. Gale seems to be the only party character who has no real resolution to his companion quest. Admittedly I haven't completed the game as Gale himself, but that doesn't change the fact that his (romance) ending is just not okay. I felt as if all the work, conversations and decisions I made as a player and alongside Gale were absolutely meaningless in the end.

-----
Side note: I finished my first playthrough on Friday (a custom good-aligned, Gale romance), and I haven’t stopped thinking about the game and how it ended, so I thought I’d write some ideas down and share them for anyone who may be interested to read them and join a conversation about the stories in BG3’s Faerun and the various incredible characters.

I've put together a really long write-up about all the unanswered questions I have, but I don't reasonably expect anyone to read through all that (and definitely not in one sitting), so I'm breaking it up into parts according to characters/quests/storylines. That said, some of the posts will be really long even after breaking it up (like this one). The posts are orientated towards those folks who are super interested in exploring alternative stories/endings, unanswered questions, secrets, etc, and are more BG3 lore-focused than anything. If that interests you, feel free to keep an eye out for my posts and please do share your thoughts.

Happy adventures!



I have to say I’m extremely annoyed at his ending (on my Gale romance playthrough). There was no resolution regarding his quest and the orb, the Crown of Karsus or his relationship with Mystra, and all my choices were just taken away in the end. So, I’ve thought especially hard about what would be satisfactory endings for him and what I really wish had played out.

Generally speaking, Gale’s views on the Crown, the Karsite Weave and Mystra in Act 3 gave me whiplash. He and my MC would have a conversation leading down a particular path, and next thing I know he makes a declaration (as part of some or other side quest) that is the polar opposite of what we previously discussed. I think this could be overlooked on a non-romance playthrough, but on a romance playthrough, this was incredibly jarring and the end result was that it made some really meaningful player choices (some of which I really agonised over) completely and utterly pointless. Gale is consistently presented as being sincerely and deeply in love with the MC and utterly devoted to them. So why on earth does he have various interactions and voice lines (outside of his dialogues with the MC) where he goes in the complete opposite direction?

Throughout my playthrough with him, I urged Gale to move away from his lingering and unrequited love for Mystra and pushed him towards exploring his own wants and needs, whatever they may be.
Despite that, there are various times that Gale made comments that majorly departed from what he told my MC during our Weave-side boat ride, how he framed his plans, and the choice I/we made and agreed to. The main examples I can think of are 1) his sniping exchange with Lorroakan, 2) his comments when he accompanies the MC to the final battle on top of the Netherbrain, and 3) his conversation with the MC after the battle is over. The first is more baffling than anything else, while the latter two are stunningly poorly executed and honestly did no small amount of damage to how I feel about the game.

When he accompanied me to Lorroakan’s tower, Gale had a lot to say about his Baldur’s Gate counterpart and his plan to enslave Aylin, and most of it was consistent with the Gale I came to know in Act 1 and especially in Act 2. He did reveal his darker, power-hungry ambitions though, and while there were hints of this throughout his story, I don’t think this was explored in enough detail to justify just how dark his thoughts were when we met Lorroakan. That interaction also framed that dark ambition as purely selfish, when we already know Gale is much more than that.

In the same way that much of Astarion’s fear and views of the world are based on his fear, anger and trauma, Gale really should have been given the room to explore his own deeper emotions as well. It’s just not satisfying that Gale only wants to get hold of the Karsite Weave simply because he’s ambitious and wants to one-up Mystra. He’s supposed to be so much more than the stereotypical wizard who pursues knowledge at all costs. Gale’s story is very different to Astarion’s, but I can’t say it’s any less traumatic in its own right. Before the events of BG3, Gale was Mystra’s Chosen, and yet there’s little to no dialogue with Gale about exactly what his powers were like before he fell out of favour with her. All of the Dead Three’s Chosen demonstrated incredible power not only in terms of their final fights, but also via the Dead Three’s cultists/acolytes and their social standing. Of course, Gale was based in Waterdeep, and wouldn’t have those connections on this side of Faerun, but why can’t we at least talk about everything he’s lost in some real depth? Astarion is given endless opportunities to talk about his past, fears, anger and trauma, as is Shadowheart, and neither of them need to be romanced for the MC to see those sides of them (which is a good thing). Gale, on the other hand, never really gets the opportunity to really talk about any of that. Instead, it’s mostly limited to largely one-dimensional pining over Mystra and a really shallow conversation about what he did after the was inflicted with the orb and how Tara tried to help him. (It was really awesome to meet Tara in Baldur’s Gate, but that also feels like such a wasted opportunity. Tara is his closest friend and was the only one who knew of his condition and helped him before the nautiloid snatched him up, and yet she has absolutely nothing to say about the fact that he just up and disappeared one day with a nuclear bomb in his chest. I really expected her to show some concern about what happened to him and whether he was okay, but instead she was more focused on eating messenger pigeons. :\ )

Exploring his past in more depth would definitely make the journey with him that much more rewarding, especially on a romance path, and it would give the MC an opportunity to establish a proper romance foundation before he suddenly declares his deep and undying love in Act 2. It would also give more dimension to his fall from grace, which currently doesn’t really play out as much more than a bad breakup with an inconveniently powerful person. His anger and trauma about what Mystra did to him before the events of the game and even throughout the story really should have explored in much greater depth, especially for a romance playthrough.

In terms of Act 3, there were some parts of his story (particular in terms of a romance) that seemed to work out okay. I was really happy to see that he took earlier conversations with my MC seriously (and therefore my player decisions) when he finally met with Mystra directly, and he followed my suggestion that he be as vague as possible regarding his plans for the Crown, so that was good. Everything just fell apart after our Weave-side boat ride though. During that scene, I decided I wanted to follow his ambition to harness the Karsite Weave, but he presented that goal in very particular way. Gale was insistent that we would *both* take hold of the power of the Karsite Weave, and together we would strive to do good in the world. And considering Gale’s nature up to that point and his deep devotion to the MC, his much darker outburst with Lorroakan was incredibly baffling. I would have loved an opportunity to challenge him directly about what he said there, because it wasn’t at all in line with how he framed his goals to the MC in his questline, and seemed especially out of character in light of the romance.

Of course, the underlying narrative that acquiring the Karsite Weave is a very, very bad idea is always present and not at all subtle, so I was fully aware of it during my playthrough. I deliberately chose to follow the Karsite Weave path precisely because I wanted to see how that choice would pan out for Gale and my MC, especially as a couple. Of all the party characters, Gale is the most unreservedly good-aligned character (though Wyll is a close second), so I really wanted to know if there was any chance of him holding on to his goodness in the face of being presented with the arguably corrupting power of the Karsite Weave. I would have loved to see a difficult and intense scene that shows how Gale struggles with the Karsite Weave and tries to fight its corrupting influence. The MC could be given the opportunity to intervene in the same way as when Astarion undergoes the profane ritual to ascend, or when SH needs to decide whether to kill Aylin or not. I also really wanted to see how Mystra (and to a lesser extent, Elminster) would react should Gale try to access the Karsite Weave.

Should Gale have accessed the Karsite Weave, there are many different ways Mystra could have responded. Would she play the part of the stereotypically angry god, furious that Gale thwarted her command, and declare war on him? Would she be afraid of him, considering that she was all but destroyed during the events of Karsus’ Folly? Or would she just express her profound disappointment as someone who once actually truly loved Gale, even though his past actions tore them apart? This entire line of enquiry is completely ripped away by the shoddy non-ending that Gale currently has, and it’s hugely frustrating. As his romantic partner, I felt deeply betrayed that, when we reached the Netherbrain, he was all of a sudden interested in Mystra’s redemption again, as if none of our prior conversations about that ever happened. It’s very Gale that he offers to off himself on his own so that no one else has to die, but considering the prior player decisions I made, that should have absolutely nothing to do with getting Mystra’s redemption or not, and it’s frustrating that this couldn’t be explored at all in that conversation. It was such a kick in the teeth that he showed any concern for Mystra at all after all we had been through by that point. Gale had evolved way beyond trying to redeem himself in Mystra’s eyes, and his thoughts on ending things at that point should solely have focused on what he (and to some extent, the romanced MC) wanted to do. His complete lack of confidence in the party being able to win that fight was also a major betrayal, and he made a complete about-turn regarding his interest in the Crown. The fact that the quest journal mentioned that we needed to get the Netherstones back from the Emperor (I allied with him to the end) to further Gale’s quest, and yet there was no opportunity to do exactly that, really makes me think Gale’s ending was just slapped together before release, and is my only truly significant gripe with the BG3 story as I’ve experienced it so far.

And then, finally, we come to Gale’s overall story ending. Firstly, the fact that the Crown just falls into the river and is lost is deeply unsatisfying and frustrating, especially after Gale’s intense focus on it and obtaining it, regardless of his plans for it. That shouldn’t have happened at all. He should have been able to get the Crown, and then decide what to do with it (with the MC’s input). It was especially annoying that this happened on a romance path with him. What should have happened is that he obtained the Crown and Mystra appeared to claim it (possibly with Elminster by her side to give Gale one last lecture). The MC could then push him to follow his ambition of harnessing the Karsite Weave and get rid of his orb that way, or the MC could persuade him to give it to Mystra and she removes his orb. Either way, it’s really unjustifiable that Gale is just stuck with the orb at the end of the story.

Sadly, Gale is the only party character who has no real resolution to his companion quest.

I did think his proposal scene was really sweet, but again it was a complete departure from everything that came before. It should have followed a resolution to his orb issue (as I discussed above) alongside the decision whether to join him in Waterdeep or not. His dialogue in that scene wasn’t too bad, but the way it was presented was the complete opposite of the audacious and truly magical scenes we had with him before. Regardless of whether Gale assimilated the Karsite Weave or not, the Gale I came to know would never propose without at least some attempt at showmanship. I appreciate that he’s trying to be more modest and austere, but there are ways the proposal could have played out that could have explored this in more depth, rather than his just awkwardly blurting out the question in some unidentified inn room in Hells knows where.

Perhaps he could have planned something special without using his magic, and deliberately explain that decision to the MC? Or he could tell the MC that even though he wants to be more modest, he still wants to explore and experience the weave with the MC at his side, especially since that’s been a consistent element in his romance. There’s no need for anyone else to be part of that experience beyond the couple and their relationship. These options of course assume that he didn’t choose to take the Crown for himself. As I mentioned before, during my Karsite Weave-orientated playthrough, Gale promised my MC that both of us would be gods (or akin to gods) if he successfully got hold of the Crown. That would obviously do away with his modesty ending completely, and so I would have expected a really outlandish magical display from Gale in light of his new powers. (That being said, I have absolutely no suggestions on what the proposal would look like or how Larian could top the previous romance scenes – they were/are absolutely breathtaking and beautiful. I’m sure they could find a way, though.)

Gale’s (romance) ending, as it currently stands, is the most solid example I’ve found that shows that Larian rushed to publish the game, instead of prioritising the story’s integrity, the world they created, and the incredible characters that form part of that story. While I come across many relatively minor story holes and unanswered questions that I came across along the way, I find the ending of Gale’s story to be the most egregious, as he is the only party character that doesn’t get closure in any way at all.

[hannibal_pjv]

Most romances in real like end unsatisfactory… So to my eyes Gales romance/ending sounds just fine. You may not be happy by it, personally how it end, But from story point of view, it is very sound and proper. IMHO

[Dr.Abscondus]

Love is a curse.

[Quacksalber]

First, I haven't completed a game romancing Gale. I am about to start Act 3 in a game where I am, as Astarion, and I have another game where I am in Act 3 playing as Gale (no one wants to romance him, not even the emperor, for some reason, lmao). However, I finished it twice with him in my party the entire time. What I can say about his romance so far, is it's badly paced. Nothing happens for way too long. You get the magic scene at the party, and then a couple of comments and that's all until right at the end of Act 2, which can be really long depending upon when you resolved the goblin issue. I might have missed stuff since I apparently don't rest enough in the game's opinion, and had to rest twice in a row before the moonrise assault to get his romance scene in Act 2 at all. Luckily I knew there was a scene there, as you get the light version even if not romancing him. Basically, he said something twice in the interim (one of which was "we were almost undead" after the Marcus Isobel thing, which is weird if you are Astarion), and then he's like I LOVE YOU. I'm not even sure what to make of this scene, since he's also threatening to kill himself.

What did he say when you went to the netherbrain? I treated Gale the same in both my games, except in the first one, he made the shadow lantern. In that one I don't remember him saying anything jarring at that point, other than offering to nuke himself, and I could say, nope, and that was it, plus it was really easy to convince him to give the crown to Mystra at the end, assuming he retrieves it at some point. In my second one, where he had not made the lantern, he started prattling about taking the crown for himself with mad eyes, and got super pissy when I said I didn't think it was a good idea, something like "You've been encouraging me the entire time and now you turn on me?". That was one of the reasons I just decided to go for a bad ending in that playthrough, as I was fairly certain he was going to do something dumb anyway, so I thought I'd beat him to it. HA!

The game has a habit of always offering you all options in conversations, so you can do a 180 at any point. I'm not sure what the point in it is. I'd rather be locked out of or into certain things happening based on what I did before. Like if you keep telling Gale to take the crown, you should not be able to suddenly convince him not to, same with Astarion ascending. Likewise if you kept telling them not to and have a good relationship with them, you should not have to convince them anyway using a persuasion check. That should be left for players who kept picking the neutral option. BTW if you fail to persuade Astarion, he just storms off and leaves the party, irrespective of anything you did before, having 100% approval, and even if you are romancing him.

I don't remember what Gale said to Lorroakan. I don't think he said anything at all in my first playthrough and in the second a bit, but nothing jarring as far as I remember - then again I might have just not been paying it too much attention. Playing as him, he says nothing at all - mind you this is a coop game and Lazael was talking being controlled by someone else - I still feel Gale should be able to butt in in scenes that are relevant to him, though. Now I think about it, I should have talked to Larroakan as Gale myself afterwards.

If you play as Gale, Tara turns up in act 1 and due to lacking an MC to talk Gale out of nuking himself, she does it. Oh and a funny thing was, he declined making the shadow lantern, but Mystra didn't bother blessing him lmao (this *might* be because of something he did before, not sure). I feel like the only inkling we get of Gale's former power is the scene before killing Ketheric in Act 2, where he creates these epic illusions, it's impressive even if you don't get the romance scene. It's also kind of jarring though, since he can do this amazing magic, but then just can't be bothered in battle? I guess he's supposed to have secrets up his sleeve and that's why it's not brought up much. Astarion isn't much better tbh. His personal quest is dreadful. There's no option to let him become a normal vampire, no option to cure him, although there's a note in the cellar where we find the Necromancy of Thay that says it teaches true resurrection, and the game just suddenly acts like you can completely change a contract with a devil and it'll work anyway - yeah sure, lmao, plus if you ascend him while romancing him, he acts like you've been letting him feed off you the entire time even if you only let him do it once and immediately told him to stop. I could go on, but this ain't about him.

I've read other people commenting that to get a good ending for Gale in the sense of getting rid of the orb, he has to suck up to Mystra and either detonate (at the end of the game, not in Act 2), or become a mind flayer. In that case, it seems Mystra revives him without the orb. I also think I read something about endings where he does get the crown and Mystra nukes him, but have no idea how to get that or if you can only get it by playing as him, nor can I vouch for any of these things happening at all as it's second hand knowledge.

I don't think Gale is the only companion with no resolution. Unascended Astarion is a stuck as spawn and the ascended one is an absolute ass, Karlach is dead, a mind flayer or has to go back to Avernus, Wyll is either doomed to be a lemure or has the threat hanging over him that his dad's impending death is on him, and so on. If what I wrote in the last paragraph is true, he can at least have a good ending, unlike some of the others.

[Moonbane]

Gale gets his companion quest resolution when played as Origin. You get to face Mystra at the end if you did not skimp on talking to her statue at Stormshore. Ironically the best ending is if Gale chose to become a squid when saving Orpheus. She will restore his soul and take him back as a chosen and as her lover, but he have to go to Elysium with her.

If not showing he was capable of sacrifice, she would just tell him to wait.

A powermad origin Gale will try to pull a Karsus on Mystra, ending in a fight with predictable results, his demise. A lvl 12 taking on a greater god? What had you expected.

[Quacksalber]

Originally posted by Moonbane:

Gale gets his companion quest resolution when played as Origin. You get to face Mystra at the end if you did not skimp on talking to her statue at Stormshore. Ironically the best ending is if Gale chose to become a squid when saving Orpheus. She will restore his soul and take him back as a chosen and as her lover, but he have to go to Elysium with her.

So, is this why Gale fails at romancing anyone in my game playing as him? Or am I just unlucky xD

[Mish(adventure)]

Originally posted by Moonbane:

Gale gets his companion quest resolution when played as Origin. You get to face Mystra at the end if you did not skimp on talking to her statue at Stormshore. Ironically the best ending is if Gale chose to become a squid when saving Orpheus. She will restore his soul and take him back as a chosen and as her lover, but he have to go to Elysium with her.

If not showing he was capable of sacrifice, she would just tell him to wait.

A powermad origin Gale will try to pull a Karsus on Mystra, ending in a fight with predictable results, his demise. A lvl 12 taking on a greater god? What had you expected.

A satisfying ending for Gale shouldn't be locked behind an Origin playthrough though, especially if he's romanced.

I'm not really sure the snarky tone is necessary? Karsite Weave Gale wouldn't be a level 12 human anymore - he would be a demi-god. The lore also very clearly established that Mystra's previous incarnation was destroyed during Karsus's Folly, so there is a compelling reason for her to actually fear KW Gale.

[Hawke]

I'd guess that either the quest flags are mixed up or the game recognises only two states - giving the Crown to Mystra or taking for yourself for the demi-godhood.

Talking Astarion out of ascension as an Evil PC was weird as well - the only successful dialogue route was "but think of the other vampire spawn". Similar with SH - saving the parents = defying Shar, even as a Dark Justiciar. So, it seems like most* Origin companion quests have only 2 outcomes with nothing in-between.

*Turning into an illithid

[Mish(adventure)]

Originally posted by Hawke:

I'd guess that either the quest flags are mixed up or the game recognises only two states - giving the Crown to Mystra or taking for yourself for the demi-godhood.

Talking Astarion out of ascension as an Evil PC was weird as well - the only successful dialogue route was "but think of the other vampire spawn". Similar with SH - saving the parents = defying Shar, even as a Dark Justiciar. So, it seems like most* Origin companion quests have only 2 outcomes with nothing in-between.

*Turning into an illithid

That's a bit disappointing to hear (that the Origin character endings are so... simplistic, for lack of a better word). But I guess that's where further development of the BG3 world could come in, beyond the paths that have been charted in the game. I'm really curious to hear what other folks would have liked to have seen, or what they were imagining would happen, etc etc.

[Mish(adventure)]

Originally posted by EH!:

Originally posted by Moonbane:

Gale gets his companion quest resolution when played as Origin. You get to face Mystra at the end if you did not skimp on talking to her statue at Stormshore. Ironically the best ending is if Gale chose to become a squid when saving Orpheus. She will restore his soul and take him back as a chosen and as her lover, but he have to go to Elysium with her.

So, is this why Gale fails at romancing anyone in my game playing as him? Or am I just unlucky xD

I sincerely hope a Gale Origin playthrough isn't locked into a Mystra romance/redemption arc, because I have absolutely zero interest in that xD I really, really don't like her or what she's put Gale through.

[Quacksalber]

Originally posted by Mishtress:

Originally posted by EH!:

So, is this why Gale fails at romancing anyone in my game playing as him? Or am I just unlucky xD

I sincerely hope a Gale Origin playthrough isn't locked into a Mystra romance/redemption arc, because I have absolutely zero interest in that xD I really, really don't like her or what she's put Gale through.

Same.

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by Mishtress:

I sincerely hope a Gale Origin playthrough isn't locked into a Mystra romance/redemption arc, because I have absolutely zero interest in that xD I really, really don't like her or what she's put Gale through.

But didn't he kind of do it to himself? Classic wizard -- always reaching just a little too far for power and knowledge. It's why wizards tend to end up as liches and/or cautionary tales for other wizards (who inevitably think, "yeah, but I would do it right, so that wouldn't happen to ME...").

[Moonbane]

You are not locked to a romance/redemption with mystra. You can try to pull a Karsus and challenge her.

[The Queen Badass]

Yeah wtf this is nuts. I originally romanced Gale as a druid and had the marriage ending with him without even knowing he could become a god.

Now with a new wizard character I've reloaded and gotten the god ending twice, even though I seemed to have steered him entirely away from it. It seems like it's bugged.

I'm not entirely dissatisfied with him becoming a god, but what's crazy to me is there isn't really an amicable ending for it. Why is there not something along the lines of congratulating him for getting what he wants but saying you'd rather stay mortal. Idk I get he's a god now so he's not really the same guy, but it just seems SO beyond the Gale you romance.

On my third reload I've tried to tell him to ask for forgiveness, but he answers with "if you want me to get the crown, I won't be able to get forgiveness," so somewhere he already got the notion that I want him to get the crown?? I wonder if this actually starts with something you say in the library or something you say to the Elminister?

[Moonbane]

If you romance Gale and he becomes a god, he offers to make you a god too.

[Mike]

This thread was quite old before the recent post, so we're locking it to prevent confusion.