My case for Karlach's proper and only ending (SPOILERS!!!!!!)

[Bokushigēmā]

Spoilers ahead.......................
















If Karlach is not the main character, you have the choice of turning her into a mind flayer and to assimilate Orpheus. However, considering that throughout the game, Karlach has an aversion to hurting those imprisoned, and has an affinity toward helping them, there is no way she would do this! This was the first time I felt that this broke "character" for Karlach. It is true she can turn and then free Orpheus later, but when making the decision, that option is not available. So the game makes it seem as though if you become a mind flayer, you will assimilate him. So, given the moment, there is no way she would offer herself to do this.
Furthermore, although the option is given to you to return to Avernus, she would not do this either as that throughout the game, she comments how she hates the place and does not want to return.
As such, this only leaves the ending where she dies. I understand it is not liked by some. I do not like it either. But it is the only ending that works and makes sense for her character. So although I do not like it in the sense that she dies, I do like it for staying consistent with her character. I also like it for the themes present in her story. Her whole arch is presented as one who makes the most of the moment and choices to enjoy the life she has, regardless of how short (or long) that may be. She even says that. So her death, although sad (oh man, did I cry when this happened!), is something that touches deep down into the soul, teaching us the same lesson. In this way, I like her ending and believe it is the only proper and true ending for her.
Thoughts?

[Lod101]

proper? kinda agree
only? no.

[Mander]

She can turn into a mindflayer even if you free Orpheus, which arguably, is the best "ending” for her (You side with the Prince instead of the Emperor and Karlach defeat the Netherbrain. Orpheus lives, all are mostly happy).
A lot has already been said about the possible endings for Karlach, and it depends a lot on your moral compass.
Imo, Karlach has the right to choose her ending: she has suffered enough. If she tells me she prefer to die than go back to Avernus, I respect her choice, even if I don’t like it. Turning her in a mindflayer is her only other option, salvation through the eye of a needle.
Yes, the container changed a lot, and the mind beneath a little, but I believe she is still Karlach underneath.
So, taters, Karlach. Even if now you bleed silver, you're still my best mate.

[The Yeen Queen]

What do you mean turn into a mindflayer AND assimilate Orpheus? Far as I've seen, assimilating Orpheus only happens if you side with the Emperor and he's the one who does it. If you free Orpheus and he turns Karlach into a mindlfayer, there's no assimilation. The PROBLEM with this outcome is becoming a mindflayer destroys the soul. So...Karlach lives, but she's now soulless.

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Karlachs ending still sucks.

[Rabbit]

My character is currently fighting devils with Karlach and our bff Wyll and living in the House of Hope with Hope. Feels like a pretty proper ending to me.

[Moonbane]

Needs must, if she wants to live and not go back to hell, then squidding is the only choice. And I as tav will force convince her to do it, so i dont have to.

[riotatari]

thats odd, i betrayed the emperor and freed orpheus. orpheus asked someone to be a mind flayer, Karlack begged for it. I let her turn and she did not attack orpheus.

[Kaisha]

I don't mind bittersweet endings, but her's was so poorly done.

You're given a TON of breadcrumbs throughout the play through hinting/suggesting a half a dozen fixes. From Dammon, to actually going to Hell, to the Gondonian's, etc... Yet in the end it's basically 'screw you, time to die' with no real rhyme or reason.

OTOH you have Gale who's set up perfectly for a bittersweet ending, and yet you still have tons of easy options to save him.

Act 3 just felt like a mess to me. None of the endings really worked properly, it was buggy, inconsistent, and the whole thing felt massively railroaded and a let down.

[victorvnv]

The only reason I keep Karlach in my party is so I can turn her into a squid In the end and that’s the only passable ending for her.

[Moonbane]

Originally posted by victorvnv:

The only reason I keep Karlach in my party is so I can turn her into a squid In the end and that’s the only passable ending for her.

Exactly my prefered plan too.

[The Yeen Queen]

Originally posted by Moonbane:

Originally posted by victorvnv:

The only reason I keep Karlach in my party is so I can turn her into a squid In the end and that’s the only passable ending for her.

Exactly my prefered plan too.

I suppose not everyone appreciates the best character in the game. >.>

[Mander]

Originally posted by Night Foxx:

What do you mean turn into a mindflayer AND assimilate Orpheus? Far as I've seen, assimilating Orpheus only happens if you side with the Emperor and he's the one who does it. If you free Orpheus and he turns Karlach into a mindlfayer, there's no assimilation. The PROBLEM with this outcome is becoming a mindflayer destroys the soul. So...Karlach lives, but she's now soulless.

Jury is still out on Mindflayer = soulless. Bear (Halsin) with me, I promise it’s not just copium.

1) “Standard” Mindflayers have gods. For example, Ilsensine is revered as their creator god by Mindflayers. And yes, Mindflayers have a… complicated relationships with gods in general (their study of divinity and their quest for subjugation of even their own deities overlap. A lot). But mindflayers are still capable of feats of divine magic, which is much more “acceptable” in their society then arcane (because arcane magic and practitioners of arcane magic are considered aberrations in mindflayers society). Followers of Thoon, for example, a sect of mindflayer which travelled the Underdark, were clerics empowered by divine magic, crusading against the common mindflayers. They were banished by the clergy of Ilsensine for their beliefs.
There is circumstantial evidence that divine magic requires a soul to be performed.

2) Mindflayers can become petitioners: souls in the fugue plane, that after death receive judgement from Kelemvor and are assigned to a domain, or a deity. Naturally, some of these souls are instead used by the hells to create lemures, and I think I remember a petitioner mindflayer used in the blood war.

3) The label “Mindflayer = soulless” is something we receive in game from dear old Withers. Which is Jergal in a mummy suit. Gods in DnD are, if not liars, dishonest, bending the truth to suit their needs and aims (with very few exceptions). When Withers tells me with oh so much surety, that Mindflayers are soulless, I have to ask myself: are they truly soulless, or their souls are not in your books?
Which is NOT the same thing. Mindflayers’ souls could be outside the purview of Jergal mandate, because of covenants more ancient than Jergal himself (or because of how Mindflayers reproduce). Granted, this doesn’t make Jergal technically wrong: he sees a lot of mortal souls potentially vanishing from his books, and the old scribe of death asks to intervene…
But at the same time, it doesn’t make him right. Or rightful. Or sincere.

TL;DR: Because of how fckd up the realm of the spirit is in DnD, it is not impossible Squid! Karlach still retains her soul, but now anchored to a different circus than the one Jergal runs.

[Quacksalber]

Karlach is an optimist. I feel like the Avernus option is fine, as it's not the end per se. She might still find a cure.

[The Yeen Queen]

Originally posted by EH!:

Karlach is an optimist. I feel like the Avernus option is fine, as it's not the end per se. She might still find a cure.

Plus....She's not facing it alone anymore. She's got Tav and possibly Wyll at her side, people she's -genuinely- bonded with. ( Pretty sure Wyll's her romantic hookup if Tav doesn't romance her. ;) )

[Quacksalber]

Originally posted by Night Foxx:

Originally posted by EH!:

Karlach is an optimist. I feel like the Avernus option is fine, as it's not the end per se. She might still find a cure.

Plus....She's not facing it alone anymore. She's got Tav and possibly Wyll at her side, people she's -genuinely- bonded with. ( Pretty sure Wyll's her romantic hookup if Tav doesn't romance her. ;) )

She went with Wyll in my first PT and I always felt those two were an item.