If Tav had a canon class, what would it be?

[Tenjen]

Not that they do, but for the sake of discussion, what do you feel would be Tav's canon class? Based on what critera? Like those with the most unique/funniest/interesting responses, interactions, most fitting to their personality and decisions in a default playthrough? Would you say that the different playthrough styles each have a different canon class that fits it best?

For me, in a default good playthrough, Bard Tav seems to fit the most. It's one of the few class types not already covered by the origin characters or other companions. They would be the one who charms and binds our team of misfits together. They can get them to cooperate and support them with their individual issues and conflicts. Keeping spirits up while not having any agenda of their own except for their principles, allowing ALL the others to trust them and follow their lead while also opening them up to be influenced towards a better path than the one their various patrons have chained them to.

They can talk, punch, spellcast, sneak, cheat, lockpick and crawl their way out of every situation. is crazy enough to pull off all the wild stunts we do. They would have broad knowledge across a wide variety of topics while lacking deeper insight that they depend on their friends for.

They would be able to demoralize, curse and hurt the enemy while encouraging, blessing and aiding their friends in a fight. Bard's seem to have some of the most varied and fun conversation options and unique dialogue rolls spread throughout the game as well.

If i had to choose a close 2nd, it would be a wild magic sorcerer Tav but i've already written enough, what are your own thoughts and notions for what fits Tav best in any sort of playthrough? Please remember to warn about spoilers if you bring anything up.

[Narky]

Originally posted by Supply Slut:

Originally posted by Black Magic:

They're both canon depending on which one you choose. Saying that, it would mean Durge is canonically dead because he is killed by Orin if you choose Tav or any of the other Origins.

Durge is the sorceror. And is stated to be a male Dragonborn who, like Tav, has a written Death if the other Origin is picked. Durge is canonically murdered by Orin if you pick any of the other Origin Classes.

Tav is most likely a Bard. Tav is left ambiguous in most entries because they're the player, fully customizable, neither discernibly stated to be male or female. Like Durge, if you pick any one but Tav/Custom, Tav is canonically dead. If you pick Tav, Durge is murdered by Orin because he has a chance to kill you.

They're both either dead or alive - it depends on who you play.

There is no “canon depends on what you choose” that entirely misses the meaning of canon. Canon is what transpires in the story if nobody plays the game - the default character and outcome.

It is pretty well established that Dark Urge is the canon MC. There is so much of the story tied to durge that it’s pretty obvious tbh

"There is no 'canon depends on what you choose'." No, that's very much how it works in RPG's based on Choice.

The player defines the canon, individual playthroughs are canon. What I quote-pasted about the source wherein the Durge kills Tav if Tav is not the chosen player origin, is canon. Same as the Durge getting murdered by Orin before he has a chance to kill Tav being Canon if Tav is chosen.

There is an established canon (setting) and there is player canon.

Unless Larian themselves outright state that the Durge is the default canon, then he's not the canon—the canon is what the player chooses to happen. If they play Tav, Tav's canon—building upon the premise of what's already established in the lore beforehand.

Larian made the effort to write in a "death" for the Durge as well, and considering both Durge and Tav can die on the prescribed notion of who you decide is your origin pick, they're are and not canon.

Which was the point to begin with.

So unless Larian ascribes to doing something in a fashion similar to that BioWare does with their games with what they call "BioWare Canon" — e.g Revan is male, Meetra Surik/The Exile from KOTOR 2 is female, SWTOR's main canon is the Jedi Knight, Commander Shepard is canonically a male, things to this degree — then the only defined canon for BG3 is to the point of before the actual events of the game take place.

Which means Tav is as Canon as Durge and vice versa, since there is written established Canon that states Durge was murdered by Orin, or Tav was murdered by the Durge (again, depending on your origin choice; picking any of the origins other than the Dark Urge essentially means he was murdered by Orin).

[causality]

White human male fighter ofc.

[MrChaoLupus]

I really like the dynamic of an Oath of Devotion Paladin/Dark Urge Tav.

[Doc]

The most heroic paladin you can imagine

[Menagerie]

If Tav had a cannon class that would make them an artificer. Since those aren't in game, you have to pick something else.

[SoundsOfNight]

Bard. Esp bc there is no Bard companion.

Or looked at in another way, these are the classes that Tav would NOT be:

1. Fighter - too dumb, have La'Zael. BUT the best combat class bar-none.
2. Barb - nope, too dumb. Have Karlach. Similar to above.
3. Paladin - too restrictive. Also Minthara. Second-best combat class.
4. Rogue - nope. Astarion.
5. Warlock - fun for Evil playthroughs but the Patron is barely depicted, so no. Plus Wyll, but he kinda sucks.
6. Druid - maybe, but the class is bottom tier. Plus you get TWO druids.
7. Cleric - um NO.
8. Ranger - nah, doesn't fit the Baldurs Gate city scene. And you have Minsc. And that cool drow Hireling.
9. Monk - if Githyanki, sure.
10. Wizard. Nah, Gale. Also Int over Char as the face? Meh.

So really it leaves Bard and Sorcerer. Being Char characters they are perfect as the face of the party.

2c.

[Supply Slut]

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Originally posted by Supply Slut:

There is no “canon depends on what you choose” that entirely misses the meaning of canon. Canon is what transpires in the story if nobody plays the game - the default character and outcome.

It is pretty well established that Dark Urge is the canon MC. There is so much of the story tied to durge that it’s pretty obvious tbh

"There is no 'canon depends on what you choose'." No, that's very much how it works in RPG's based on Choice.

The player defines the canon, individual playthroughs are canon. What I quote-pasted about the source wherein the Durge kills Tav if Tav is not the chosen player origin, is canon. Same as the Durge getting murdered by Orin before he has a chance to kill Tav being Canon if Tav is chosen.

There is an established canon (setting) and there is player canon.

Unless Larian themselves outright state that the Durge is the default canon, then he's not the canon—the canon is what the player chooses to happen. If they play Tav, Tav's canon—building upon the premise of what's already established in the lore beforehand.

Larian made the effort to write in a "death" for the Durge as well, and considering both Durge and Tav can die on the prescribed notion of who you decide is your origin pick, they're are and not canon.

Which was the point to begin with.

So unless Larian ascribes to doing something in a fashion similar to that BioWare does with their games with what they call "BioWare Canon" — e.g Revan is male, Meetra Surik/The Exile from KOTOR 2 is female, SWTOR's main canon is the Jedi Knight, Commander Shepard is canonically a male, things to this degree — then the only defined canon for BG3 is to the point of before the actual events of the game take place.

Which means Tav is as Canon as Durge and vice versa, since there is written established Canon that states Durge was murdered by Orin, or Tav was murdered by the Durge (again, depending on your origin choice; picking any of the origins other than the Dark Urge essentially means he was murdered by Orin).

They cannot both be canon. I’m not sure what’s confusing for you. If every playthrough was canon there would simply be no canon, which is the case in some games.

It will not be confirmed until larian decides to reveal it - which they have absolutely no incentive to do at this moment. It’s something that likely wouldn’t be published for several years.

That said the most unique content is tied to durge, not tav, defaults to a white Dragonborn sorcerer.

You can see the exact same thing from other studios. Who is the canon Commander Shepard? That’s right: that goofy looking default face we all saw when we opened up the character creator. This is almost certainly going to be the same situation. Anyone stating otherwise will have to show some reasoning as to why, so far there hadn’t been anything to suggest it’s not a white Dragonborn sorcerer Dark Urge.

[Narky]

Originally posted by Supply Slut:

Originally posted by Black Magic:

"There is no 'canon depends on what you choose'." No, that's very much how it works in RPG's based on Choice.

The player defines the canon, individual playthroughs are canon. What I quote-pasted about the source wherein the Durge kills Tav if Tav is not the chosen player origin, is canon. Same as the Durge getting murdered by Orin before he has a chance to kill Tav being Canon if Tav is chosen.

There is an established canon (setting) and there is player canon.

Unless Larian themselves outright state that the Durge is the default canon, then he's not the canon—the canon is what the player chooses to happen. If they play Tav, Tav's canon—building upon the premise of what's already established in the lore beforehand.

Larian made the effort to write in a "death" for the Durge as well, and considering both Durge and Tav can die on the prescribed notion of who you decide is your origin pick, they're are and not canon.

Which was the point to begin with.

So unless Larian ascribes to doing something in a fashion similar to that BioWare does with their games with what they call "BioWare Canon" — e.g Revan is male, Meetra Surik/The Exile from KOTOR 2 is female, SWTOR's main canon is the Jedi Knight, Commander Shepard is canonically a male, things to this degree — then the only defined canon for BG3 is to the point of before the actual events of the game take place.

Which means Tav is as Canon as Durge and vice versa, since there is written established Canon that states Durge was murdered by Orin, or Tav was murdered by the Durge (again, depending on your origin choice; picking any of the origins other than the Dark Urge essentially means he was murdered by Orin).

They cannot both be canon. I’m not sure what’s confusing for you. If every playthrough was canon there would simply be no canon, which is the case in some games.

It will not be confirmed until larian decides to reveal it - which they have absolutely no incentive to do at this moment. It’s something that likely wouldn’t be published for several years.

That said the most unique content is tied to durge, not tav, defaults to a white Dragonborn sorcerer.

You can see the exact same thing from other studios. Who is the canon Commander Shepard? That’s right: that goofy looking default face we all saw when we opened up the character creator. This is almost certainly going to be the same situation. Anyone stating otherwise will have to show some reasoning as to why, so far there hadn’t been anything to suggest it’s not a white Dragonborn sorcerer Dark Urge.

I'm not sure you understand what it means when the canon is decided by the player's individual experience (meaning Tav surviving is as canon as the Dark Urge surviving DEPENDING on who the player picks) - so I can see this is going no where so I'll repeat it one last time:

The only SET CANON is the one that is prelude to the actual game's events. So until Larian themselves mention what their 'default canon' happens to be, it's wrong to say that the Dark Urge is the default canon because by your logic the first thing the game opens you up to is the Custom Origin option if you're really going there with the Shepard argument. https://i.ibb.co/LzWzL4F/Origin-Character-Default.jpg This is always the first thing you see to the Character Creation after the opening cinematic - the custom option, aka Tav, who is meant to represent you, the Player.

There's actual lore to the Forgotten Realms - Tav (Custom) is actually a canon character that is left ambiguous save for a few things—he/she was the one who was Investigating the Dark Urge's murders in Baldur's Gate before they got abducted, and that lore dictates that if you choose Dark Urge, the Dark Urge murdered Tav before the Nautiloid happened, and even faked their own death - Orin proceeds to take advantage and attempts to murder the Dark Urge.

However, and I'll repeat for the last time, if Tav or any of the other Origin choices are taken for the Playthrough. The Dark Urge is successfully Murdered by Orin—if you choose Tav, the Dark Urge was unsuccessful in murdering Tav and was sequentially killed by Orin. That alone is enough to suggest that there isn't a definitive "main character" besides what the player chooses to play.

The canon for Male Shepard is literally the Male Model they based him off, https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/mass-effect-3/2/20/Mass_Effect_3_-_Commander_Shepard_Edit.png?width=1280 — this guy. He's the poster boy, literally in almost all of their advertisement cinematics. They then went as far as to give Female Shepard a new model and she was then used far more in their marketing than Male Shepard was for ME3. BioWare is often outright in what THEIR default canon is, so please, stop arguing just for the sake of argument. This is tiring beyond belief.

So again, until Larian defines what they consider to be the "default canon" for the game, everything is a "what if?". Because this isn't BG1 or BG2 that launched with a set story that defined who/what is or isn't canon from the get-go. It's left ambiguous for a reason.

[Balekai]

Githyanki Druid /End_Thread

[victorvnv]

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Originally posted by Supply Slut:

They cannot both be canon. I’m not sure what’s confusing for you. If every playthrough was canon there would simply be no canon, which is the case in some games.

It will not be confirmed until larian decides to reveal it - which they have absolutely no incentive to do at this moment. It’s something that likely wouldn’t be published for several years.

That said the most unique content is tied to durge, not tav, defaults to a white Dragonborn sorcerer.

You can see the exact same thing from other studios. Who is the canon Commander Shepard? That’s right: that goofy looking default face we all saw when we opened up the character creator. This is almost certainly going to be the same situation. Anyone stating otherwise will have to show some reasoning as to why, so far there hadn’t been anything to suggest it’s not a white Dragonborn sorcerer Dark Urge.

I'm not sure you understand what it means when the canon is decided by the player's individual experience (meaning Tav surviving is as canon as the Dark Urge surviving DEPENDING on who the player picks) - so I can see this is going no where so I'll repeat it one last time:

The only SET CANON is the one that is prelude to the actual game's events. So until Larian themselves mention what their 'default canon' happens to be, it's wrong to say that the Dark Urge is the default canon because by your logic the first thing the game opens you up to is the Custom Origin option if you're really going there with the Shepard argument. https://i.ibb.co/LzWzL4F/Origin-Character-Default.jpg This is always the first thing you see to the Character Creation after the opening cinematic - the custom option, aka Tav, who is meant to represent you, the Player.

There's actual lore to the Forgotten Realms - Tav (Custom) is actually a canon character that is left ambiguous save for a few things—he/she was the one who was Investigating the Dark Urge's murders in Baldur's Gate before they got abducted, and that lore dictates that if you choose Dark Urge, the Dark Urge murdered Tav before the Nautiloid happened, and even faked their own death - Orin proceeds to take advantage and attempts to murder the Dark Urge.

However, and I'll repeat for the last time, if Tav or any of the other Origin choices are taken for the Playthrough. The Dark Urge is successfully Murdered by Orin—if you choose Tav, the Dark Urge was unsuccessful in murdering Tav and was sequentially killed by Orin. That alone is enough to suggest that there isn't a definitive "main character" besides what the player chooses to play.

The canon for Male Shepard is literally the Male Model they based him off, https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/mass-effect-3/2/20/Mass_Effect_3_-_Commander_Shepard_Edit.png?width=1280 — this guy. He's the poster boy, literally in almost all of their advertisement cinematics. They then went as far as to give Female Shepard a new model and she was then used far more in their marketing than Male Shepard was for ME3. BioWare is often outright in what THEIR default canon is, so please, stop arguing just for the sake of argument. This is tiring beyond belief.

So again, until Larian defines what they consider to be the "default canon" for the game, everything is a "what if?". Because this isn't BG1 or BG2 that launched with a set story that defined who/what is or isn't canon from the get-go. It's left ambiguous for a reason.

By your logic then Tav can’t have a canon class because he is canonically whatever every player chooses .

/end thread

[victorvnv]

I think canonically Tav wanted to get the Jack of all trades achievement so he was a BardClericWizzardRogueRangerPaladinSorcererWarlockFighterBarbarianMonkDruid

And he was consistently respecing his class with Withers based on whatever gear he found

[Sevati]

Tav is a compromise.

You really want to play the game as Dark Urge and customize that entirely customizable toon for a complete experience that ties the game very tightly to BG1 and BG2 at least once. If you only plan on one complete play-through, choose the Dark Urge.

What classes that toon should be is completely open. Its mind has essentially been wiped and it can fall back into what it was... or be something entirely different. Its essentially been born anew and has zero memory of what it was thanks to the opening scene of the game and so much more as you learn when you progress through the game.

Larian really did a great job on the Dark Urge, and if you played the previous games for 100's or 1000's of hours like many of us Gen X'r PC gamers did, you'll understand. Its central, moreso than any other origin character to the game and its story.

There is another thing that really got me about this tale, almost as much as the Red Wedding when I first read those books, and what many fans experienced via TV in a much milder way. I sorta had to stop playing the game for a few days to digest things after that Ansur fight....

I don't want to spoil it for people who didn't unlock those cutscenes or do those things and I find it...

... Its kinda weird the internet isn't all over it when you google certain words and find nothing about it. From a story and lore point of view is just a great example of why this is such a worthy successor to those previous two games and how certain things, even in Act 3... completely change your path to the ending even if following a good or bad play through or something else entirely.

[Tenjen]

Originally posted by DragonSoundxSG:

Bard. Esp bc there is no Bard companion.

Or looked at in another way, these are the classes that Tav would NOT be:

*LISTED CLASSES*

So really it leaves Bard and Sorcerer. Being Char characters they are perfect as the face of the party.

2c.

I dunno. if I had a third pick myself after bard and Sorc, it would be a Selunite Cleric. Clerics are more than just healers with the Life spec. But even then not all quite fit Tav so lets filter them out. We can put aside Life and Light cause Shadowheart might go that way on her good path and Trickery cause Shadowheart has that (and its not great and illfitting for tav anyay), then there is Knowledge which is a fine build but again I dont see canon tav fitting that too close. Same with nature.

Tempest I can see fitting a spell caster Tav similar to how a sorcerer would but a war cleric fits even better for a Martial Leader Tav similar to what one would consider for a commander-BMfighter or Paladin Tav. Hell I would say it fits even better than a BM Fighter or Paladin as a Selunite War Cleric fits many of the displayed traits of leadership, guidance, moral support, protection. Being the binding heart of the team without being a "benevolent burden".

It would certainly work with a shadowheart romance.

[Tenjen]

Infact one thing we havent factored in for this discussion is how a certain class might fit in with the potential romances. No value in discussing a canon romance as just about all the origin ones are great and which is the best is based on personal preference.

I can see a bard working with eveyrone that way. Either them falling head over heels for their charm and rogue-ishness or their skill and aptitude to deal with any situation be it a conversation, fight or treacherous location. It even fits with leizels initial attitude of thinking we're a burden, to a competent but gullible moron, to someone worthy of respect and even love as a bard tav proves they are more than a stereotypical bard archtype.

Certain classes also have better interactions with some of the characters, especially fitting if you're romancing them. Like a selunite cleric with Shadowheart. There are some rather interesting interactions with Gale if you're a sorcerer. The others will address your nature as being "magic born", but it is especially more so with Gale + there are multiple discussions and companion triggers which address your difference in perspective (between a wizard and sorcerer) where he will describe stuff in scholarly terms which you inherently know by instinct and feel. Plus the "why do you keep describing magic stuff to me I already know?!" responses with Gale are great for spell casters.

[Narky]

Originally posted by victorvnv:

Originally posted by Black Magic:

I'm not sure you understand what it means when the canon is decided by the player's individual experience (meaning Tav surviving is as canon as the Dark Urge surviving DEPENDING on who the player picks) - so I can see this is going no where so I'll repeat it one last time:

The only SET CANON is the one that is prelude to the actual game's events. So until Larian themselves mention what their 'default canon' happens to be, it's wrong to say that the Dark Urge is the default canon because by your logic the first thing the game opens you up to is the Custom Origin option if you're really going there with the Shepard argument. https://i.ibb.co/LzWzL4F/Origin-Character-Default.jpg This is always the first thing you see to the Character Creation after the opening cinematic - the custom option, aka Tav, who is meant to represent you, the Player.

There's actual lore to the Forgotten Realms - Tav (Custom) is actually a canon character that is left ambiguous save for a few things—he/she was the one who was Investigating the Dark Urge's murders in Baldur's Gate before they got abducted, and that lore dictates that if you choose Dark Urge, the Dark Urge murdered Tav before the Nautiloid happened, and even faked their own death - Orin proceeds to take advantage and attempts to murder the Dark Urge.

However, and I'll repeat for the last time, if Tav or any of the other Origin choices are taken for the Playthrough. The Dark Urge is successfully Murdered by Orin—if you choose Tav, the Dark Urge was unsuccessful in murdering Tav and was sequentially killed by Orin. That alone is enough to suggest that there isn't a definitive "main character" besides what the player chooses to play.

The canon for Male Shepard is literally the Male Model they based him off, https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/mass-effect-3/2/20/Mass_Effect_3_-_Commander_Shepard_Edit.png?width=1280 — this guy. He's the poster boy, literally in almost all of their advertisement cinematics. They then went as far as to give Female Shepard a new model and she was then used far more in their marketing than Male Shepard was for ME3. BioWare is often outright in what THEIR default canon is, so please, stop arguing just for the sake of argument. This is tiring beyond belief.

So again, until Larian defines what they consider to be the "default canon" for the game, everything is a "what if?". Because this isn't BG1 or BG2 that launched with a set story that defined who/what is or isn't canon from the get-go. It's left ambiguous for a reason.

By your logic then Tav can’t have a canon class because he is canonically whatever every player chooses .

/end thread

That... is what I was getting at to start with? While my opinion is that bard is the most likely.

Not the 'gotcha' you thought that was.