[Spoilers!] Endgame alliance with Emperor - thoughts?

[Mish(adventure)]

Hey everyone,

So, I've just reached the point where you are forced to choose between freeing Orpheus or letting an allied mindflayer devour his brains , and does anyone else feel the options are really two-dimensional and shallow? After everything we've been through together and everything he's done to fight the Elder Brain, it really baffles me that the Emperor would completely abandon the MC to join the Elder Brain if you choose to free Orpheus . I would understand if he just decided to leave the party (so to speak), but siding with the Elder Brain is the worst choice he could possibly make, and not in his best interests in any way . I haven't played further than this point, so maybe it becomes clearer later (please don't spoil this if it does), but right now I'm really disappointed with how black-and-white the decision is here.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

[Shin Dan]

he's neutral evil

[victorvnv]

There is no good or bad decision, neither emperor nor Orpheus will betray you if you chose one or the other , it comes down to your own morale and preferences.

If you like the emperor side with him, or side with Orpheus . No way to save both so one of them has to die in the end.

Orpheus is obviously the “good “ choise but the emperor is also fine.

It mostly comes down to who ends up how. If you help Orpheus someone needs to become mind flair. With Emperor you don’t have to worry about it as he is the mindflayer

[Kafik]

So what other option do you propose for getting to the Elder Brain?

[Anima Mundi]

Originally posted by Shin Dan:

he's neutral evil

hmm. In my understanding of Alignements, i've always thought he was True Neutral. Its what makes most sense.
How do you explain Neutral evil?
He's got no interesting in harming or the suffering of others, in fact he goes out of his way to only consume the brains of criminals and other despicable subjects.

Basically he only cares about his own self, and doesn't go out of his way to neither help nor harm if it does not benefit him or his goals

[Kafik]

Originally posted by Anima Mundi:

Originally posted by Shin Dan:

he's neutral evil

hmm. In my understanding of Alignements, i've always thought he was True Neutral. Its what makes most sense.
How do you explain Neutral evil?
He's got no interesting in harming or the suffering of others, in fact he goes out of his way to only consume the brains of criminals and other despicable subjects.

Basically he only cares about his own self, and doesn't go out of his way to neither help nor harm if it does not benefit him or his goals

That is exactly neutral evil. Think of a manipulative narcissist who really doesn't care about his victims. That's the Emperor. He even threatens you if you don't say things he wants you to say.

[Anima Mundi]

Originally posted by Mishtress:

it really baffles me that the Emperor would completely abandon the MC to join the Elder Brain if you choose to free Orpheus .

You may have misunderstood him, he is just scared of Orpheus tbh.
Victorvnv pretty much summed it all up.

Moreover, without wanting to Spoil anything for you, a certain path will actually allow you to eventually betray him, a pretty chaotic evil path, but really funny

[Anima Mundi]

Originally posted by Mal:

That is exactly neutral evil. Think of a manipulative narcissist who really doesn't care about his victims. That's the Emperor. He even threatens you if you don't say things he wants you to say.

Yea to a point that may be more correct. Usually DnD describes Neutral as people who have reserves or regrets against killing innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others unless there is a personal relationship or interest.

I guess he nnever actually shows hesitation or regret for innocent lives lost, but at the same time he does not seem to take pleasure in killing or harming others, even going as far as to not eat the brains of innocents.

He's kinda hard to label tbh, but he is not pure evil, and to me feels more leaning towards Neutral - neutral, so a True neutral

[Mish(adventure)]

Originally posted by victorvnv:

There is no good or bad decision, neither emperor nor Orpheus will betray you if you chose one or the other , it comes down to your own morale and preferences.

If you like the emperor side with him, or side with Orpheus . No way to save both so one of them has to die in the end.

Orpheus is obviously the “good “ choise but the emperor is also fine.

It mostly comes down to who ends up how. If you help Orpheus someone needs to become mind flair. With Emperor you don’t have to worry about it as he is the mindflayer

That's not what's currently playing out though? When I chose to free Orpheus the Emperor told me he was siding with the Elder Brain and disappeared . As I said, I haven't gotten further than this point, but I found it absolutely bizarre that he would respond that way.

[Mish(adventure)]

Originally posted by Mal:

So what other option do you propose for getting to the Elder Brain?

I wasn't trying to propose a different option to get to the Elder Brain? I was commenting on the two-dimensional nature of the Emperor's response

[TheOrneryClam]

I understand where you're coming from but for me it didn't feel that way. Especially if you romance Laezel, freeing Orpheus felt very satisfying. All the books and notes referring to mindflayer behaviour suggested to me that The Emperor only ever cared if your interests were aligned. By the time I got to ACT 3 I was estatic to just boot him as an ally all together.

[Kafik]

Originally posted by Anima Mundi:

Originally posted by Mal:

That is exactly neutral evil. Think of a manipulative narcissist who really doesn't care about his victims. That's the Emperor. He even threatens you if you don't say things he wants you to say.

Yea to a point that may be more correct. Usually DnD describes Neutral as people who have reserves or regrets against killing innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others unless there is a personal relationship or interest.

I guess he nnever actually shows hesitation or regret for innocent lives lost, but at the same time he does not seem to take pleasure in killing or harming others, even going as far as to not eat the brains of innocents.

He's kinda hard to label tbh, but he is not pure evil, and to me feels more leaning towards Neutral - neutral, so a True neutral

Well, HE tells us he only killed criminals, but then again he lied about being a mindflayer.

[Kafik]

Originally posted by Mishtress:

Originally posted by Mal:

So what other option do you propose for getting to the Elder Brain?

I wasn't trying to propose a different option to get to the Elder Brain? I was commenting on the two-dimensional nature of the Emperor's response

Uh ok how is that a problem? Emperor has been grooming you to do his bidding the entire game and holding Orpheus hostage the whole time. You turn on him and defy his plans and he's supposed to be cool with it?

[Mish(adventure)]

Originally posted by Mal:

Originally posted by Anima Mundi:

hmm. In my understanding of Alignements, i've always thought he was True Neutral. Its what makes most sense.
How do you explain Neutral evil?
He's got no interesting in harming or the suffering of others, in fact he goes out of his way to only consume the brains of criminals and other despicable subjects.

Basically he only cares about his own self, and doesn't go out of his way to neither help nor harm if it does not benefit him or his goals

That is exactly neutral evil. Think of a manipulative narcissist who really doesn't care about his victims. That's the Emperor. He even threatens you if you don't say things he wants you to say.

That's not how I understand NE - Anima's description is True Neutral, if anything. But I guess the Emperor's alignment is flexible based on how you interact with him. If you build a connection with him, he comes across TN, but if you diverge from his plan, he's NE?

[Kafik]

Originally posted by TheOrneryClam:

I understand where you're coming from but for me it didn't feel that way. Especially if you romance Laezel, freeing Orpheus felt very satisfying. All the books and notes referring to mindflayer behaviour suggested to me that The Emperor only ever cared if your interests were aligned. By the time I got to ACT 3 I was estatic to just boot him as an ally all together.

I almost lost the end fight because I focused on that MF'er and made sure to kill him first.

[victorvnv]

Originally posted by Mishtress:

Originally posted by victorvnv:

There is no good or bad decision, neither emperor nor Orpheus will betray you if you chose one or the other , it comes down to your own morale and preferences.

If you like the emperor side with him, or side with Orpheus . No way to save both so one of them has to die in the end.

Orpheus is obviously the “good “ choise but the emperor is also fine.

It mostly comes down to who ends up how. If you help Orpheus someone needs to become mind flair. With Emperor you don’t have to worry about it as he is the mindflayer

That's not what's currently playing out though? When I chose to free Orpheus the Emperor told me he was siding with the Elder Brain and disappeared . As I said, I haven't gotten further than this point, but I found it absolutely bizarre that he would respond that way.

Yes he is siding with the brain thus you will have to eventually kill him later