[SPOILERS] Karlach DESERVES BETTER ending

[Nonomori]

Everyone, and I mean it, everyone in your party get some sort of happy ending in the end of the game, yet the one who deserves and needs it the most, Karlach... does not.

Like, seriously, why they decided to screw her over like that? To add a bitter pill into an all around delicious and smoking hot stew that is Baldur's Gate 3? Their attempt at "fixing" her ending in Patch 2 doesn't fix anything at all, it just adds more dialogues and choices to her already existing endings and those endings sucks major balls, if you pardon my language!

Make her a Squidward? Send her back to the place she hates most of all to fight an army of demons and queen of Hell herself? Just let her die because of her failing heart? You REALLY mean there were no other way around for her? No "deux ex machina" to save her, just how it is in Gale's case?

I do hope that current state of affairs isn't permanent because it doesn't make sense for her to be the only one without a good enclosure for her book. Maybe they will do something about it in definitive edition, if there'll be any, maybe in future patches. But they CAN'T leave it like that! Karlach deserves so much better!

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by Kaisha:

It's pretty clear there was more planned that was dropped. There are FAR more soul coins dropped than are necessary and a lot more infernal iron, and a lot of dialog suggesting other outcomes.

They dropped about half of Act 3 and it's pretty obvious her storyline was a HUGE part of the part dropped.

Well for souls coins and irons it's like the xp thingy, the game give you way more because they don't trust you to find them all. So it's better to put a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of them to be sure Kevin will find his infernal iron to progress Karlach quest.

[Kaisha]

Originally posted by Grumpy:

Well for souls coins and irons it's like the xp thingy, the game give you way more because they don't trust you to find them all. So it's better to put a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of them to be sure Kevin will find his infernal iron to progress Karlach quest.

You need two pieces of infernal iron, you get maybe 20. On top of that the majority drops in Act 3 where you don't even need it.

There's also a log of dialog that references it, and data mined triggers/etc... that are disabled/broken that reference it as well. It's pretty clear they intended there to be more to soul coins/infernal iron.

[SPEAKER MAN]

Originally posted by Kaisha:

Originally posted by n u t:

Well there is no proof of it, so it is far fetched to say its pretty obvious that her storyline get dropped.

There is evidence. Not to mention people have datamined the game and shown a fair amount of flags/triggers left over to her that are unused.

There is no datamined missing story line, if there is, feel free to post it here.

At best, there may be a couple missing voice lines, but definitely no missing quest line or story line on her part. If you don't believe me, feel free to look it up online. The only thing one will find online is other people who believe of the missing content, but there is absolutely no concrete proof of said missing content, as much as I'd like to believe it.

Alot of people believe there's half a game missing from BG3, it's fortunately (or unfortunately) not the case. Again if I'm wrong, please feel free to post any source or proof in here. I'm all ears and would actually be very pleased to be corrected, I'd love to know there is more to possibly come out of her storyline.

[fae.wicket]

Originally posted by n u t:

Originally posted by The_Dipl0mat:

Exactly. Maybe not take over much we're def gonna hold our own. Get ♥♥♥♥ done, fix the engine. Get out

A good ending would just take away from the avernus one, like you and the other user said, after all the journey your crew goes through, there definitely is room for visualising victory in Avernus, it is not explicitly shown, but I count it as a good ending. Not bittersweet. After all the ass-kicking we've done in Act I, II, III, I also have a hard time believing that Zariel will enslave Karlach again within the same minute of arrival. Then again, I've never played D&D. So I've no clue how powerful Zariel really is, I still doubt there is anything she can easily do against fighters who can defeat demi-gods and the dead three

Zariel is a CR 26 monster, which is nearly twice the difficulty of an adult red dragon and 2 levels above an Ancient Red Dragon. There are encounter calculators you can plug information into to see if the fight is balanced. 3 level 12 characters vs 1 CR 26 monster is still considered a Deadly encounter.

[SPEAKER MAN]

Originally posted by fae.wicket:

Originally posted by n u t:

A good ending would just take away from the avernus one, like you and the other user said, after all the journey your crew goes through, there definitely is room for visualising victory in Avernus, it is not explicitly shown, but I count it as a good ending. Not bittersweet. After all the ass-kicking we've done in Act I, II, III, I also have a hard time believing that Zariel will enslave Karlach again within the same minute of arrival. Then again, I've never played D&D. So I've no clue how powerful Zariel really is, I still doubt there is anything she can easily do against fighters who can defeat demi-gods and the dead three

Zariel is a CR 26 monster, which is nearly twice the difficulty of an adult red dragon and 2 levels above an Ancient Red Dragon. There are encounter calculators you can plug information into to see if the fight I'd balanced. 3 level 12 characters vs 1 CR 26 monster is still considered a Deadly encounter.

For the record ; what does "CR" mean in this context?

[fae.wicket]

Originally posted by n u t:

Originally posted by fae.wicket:

Zariel is a CR 26 monster, which is nearly twice the difficulty of an adult red dragon and 2 levels above an Ancient Red Dragon. There are encounter calculators you can plug information into to see if the fight I'd balanced. 3 level 12 characters vs 1 CR 26 monster is still considered a Deadly encounter.

For the record ; what does "CR" mean in this context?

Challenge Rating. A standard Elder Brain holds a CR of 14, for context.

[victorvnv]

Originally posted by fae.wicket:

Originally posted by n u t:

A good ending would just take away from the avernus one, like you and the other user said, after all the journey your crew goes through, there definitely is room for visualising victory in Avernus, it is not explicitly shown, but I count it as a good ending. Not bittersweet. After all the ass-kicking we've done in Act I, II, III, I also have a hard time believing that Zariel will enslave Karlach again within the same minute of arrival. Then again, I've never played D&D. So I've no clue how powerful Zariel really is, I still doubt there is anything she can easily do against fighters who can defeat demi-gods and the dead three

Zariel is a CR 26 monster, which is nearly twice the difficulty of an adult red dragon and 2 levels above an Ancient Red Dragon. There are encounter calculators you can plug information into to see if the fight is balanced. 3 level 12 characters vs 1 CR 26 monster is still considered a Deadly encounter.

My bard will gut her with his crossbow just like he gutted Raphael and the Neither brain

[fae.wicket]

Originally posted by victorvnv:

Originally posted by fae.wicket:

Zariel is a CR 26 monster, which is nearly twice the difficulty of an adult red dragon and 2 levels above an Ancient Red Dragon. There are encounter calculators you can plug information into to see if the fight is balanced. 3 level 12 characters vs 1 CR 26 monster is still considered a Deadly encounter.

My bard will gut her with his crossbow just like he gutted Raphael and the Neither brain

In the hands of a competent DM, Zariel could still demolish a team of 3 level 20 adventurers.

[SPEAKER MAN]

Originally posted by fae.wicket:

Originally posted by n u t:

For the record ; what does "CR" mean in this context?

Challenge Rating. A standard Elder Brain holds a CR of 14, for context.

Well, thanks for the information.

Since i'm a hopeful person, I like to imagine in my dream world that when we reach avernus, our party of 3 will be able to reach further levels than 12, or some other fiend/demon or powerful being with a vendetta against Zariel aids us in the fight. But yeah, a CR of 26 does seem very suicidal.

Is the CR the same as level, or really is it its own thing? This is all very fascinating as a non D&D player

[victorvnv]

Originally posted by fae.wicket:

Originally posted by victorvnv:

My bard will gut her with his crossbow just like he gutted Raphael and the Neither brain

In the hands of a competent DM, Zariel could still demolish a team of 3 level 20 adventurers.

In the hands of Larian she is soloable by a lvl 1 cleric

[fae.wicket]

Originally posted by n u t:

Originally posted by fae.wicket:

Challenge Rating. A standard Elder Brain holds a CR of 14, for context.

Well, thanks for the information.

Since i'm a hopeful person, I like to imagine in my dream world that when we reach avernus, our party of 3 will be able to reach further levels than 12. But yeah, a CR of 26 does seem very suicidal.

Is the CR the same as level, or really is it its own thing? This is all very fascinating as a non D&D player

CR is definitely it's own thing. Player level vs monster level is hard to calculate the same way. Zariel is essentially a tier below a full fledged god. For example, her stat block says that if she fails a saving throw, she can straight up just go "No, actually. I didn't fail" 3 times per long rest.

[fae.wicket]

Originally posted by victorvnv:

Originally posted by fae.wicket:

In the hands of a competent DM, Zariel could still demolish a team of 3 level 20 adventurers.

In the hands of Larian she is soloable by a lvl 1 cleric

Oh that's some bravado I'd love to see tested.

[SPEAKER MAN]

Originally posted by fae.wicket:

Originally posted by n u t:

Well, thanks for the information.

Since i'm a hopeful person, I like to imagine in my dream world that when we reach avernus, our party of 3 will be able to reach further levels than 12. But yeah, a CR of 26 does seem very suicidal.

Is the CR the same as level, or really is it its own thing? This is all very fascinating as a non D&D player

CR is definitely it's own thing. Player level vs monster level is hard to calculate the same way. Zariel is essentially a tier below a full fledged god. For example, her stat block says that if she fails a saving throw, she can straight up just go "No, actually. I didn't fail" 3 times per long rest.

I wonder if there would be a way to take her down with Power Word : Kill? Maybe find a way to damage her down to 100hp and then hope for no saving throws

I just checked her stat block, and it would take a crazy good spell save DC score I imagine to even get close to get her to 100hp, even then, wizards are squishy so its even deadlier to go for a spell save DC build in that case I would imagine.

Have you any theory or imagination on how she would be taken down IF she was an in-game boss fight with her actual stat block? Of course without cheats or mods

[Nevron]

Originally posted by Kaisha:

Originally posted by Grumpy:

Well for souls coins and irons it's like the xp thingy, the game give you way more because they don't trust you to find them all. So it's better to put a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of them to be sure Kevin will find his infernal iron to progress Karlach quest.

You need two pieces of infernal iron, you get maybe 20. On top of that the majority drops in Act 3 where you don't even need it.

There's also a log of dialog that references it, and data mined triggers/etc... that are disabled/broken that reference it as well. It's pretty clear they intended there to be more to soul coins/infernal iron.

Yeah it's obvious a lot of her story got cut along with some of the min story line as well. That's a shame. I would have liked to see her get the happy ending she deserved as well as the extra content for the main story line.

[victorvnv]

Originally posted by n u t:

Originally posted by fae.wicket:

CR is definitely it's own thing. Player level vs monster level is hard to calculate the same way. Zariel is essentially a tier below a full fledged god. For example, her stat block says that if she fails a saving throw, she can straight up just go "No, actually. I didn't fail" 3 times per long rest.

I wonder if there would be a way to take her down with Power Word : Kill? Maybe find a way to damage her down to 100hp and then hope for no saving throws

I just checked her stat block, and it would take a crazy good spell save DC score I imagine to even get close to get her to 100hp, even then, wizards are squishy so its even deadlier to go for a spell save DC build in that case I would imagine.

Have you any theory or imagination on how she would be taken down IF she was an in-game boss fight with her actual stat block? Of course without cheats or mods

I’d just gut her with a crossbow shot in the face