Male Lolth Drow Clerics!?!

[ChentallyMallenged1]

Are impossible. Read Homeland by R. A. Salvatore to understand this. Please fix this.

[DCid]

Everything before 5th edition is dead and never coming back. Deal with it.

[Popsicles]

Lore, lore, lore... Blah, Blah, Blah. Here it is - straight from a source book. There are male drow priest. Don't let these amateurs tell you otherwise.

Fiend Folio - 1981 pg 33:

Regardless of the number of drow appearing, there will always be one of higher level than the main body. Drow males are all at least 2nd level fighters — some are as high as 7th level in fighting ability. Males can also be magic-users, some as high as 12th level. Female drow are also at least 2nd level fighters and some have attained 9th level as fighters. Most drow clerics are female, and no upper limit to their level of ability is known; however no male drow cleric has been known to be higher than 4th level.

https://archive.org/details/tsr02012fiendfolio/page/n33/mode/2up

[Popsicles]

Originally posted by Slynx Jewel:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this before you understand: Stop. Using. Mechanics. To. Argue. This. Topic.

I don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about what the mechanical rules for the game say. The LORE, meaning the IN GAME WORLD BUILDING, says that male clerics of Lolth have their power capped at an early point in their careers. Only female clerics are permitted to rise to prominence Lolth's clergy.

That is the way the setting is written, and therefor it is the only stance which I will accept in regards to the issue. The mechanical side of 5th edition's rule books can piss off.

Faerun is described in forgotten realms campaign setting. Can you present a quote and page number from dnd5 edition that is talking about level cap? Otherwise your quote is a bit outdated.
Lore changed.

News flash: paladins are not restricted to be humans. Or even be good. XD

Wow - he gets flustered when he is wrong. He can't point to any official rule book stating that Male drow are restricted from being a cleric/priest. So if 5e books can 'piss off' (can you imagine getting that heated over D&D?) - then what about 1e books? It's stated that there are Drow priest? They should just all 'piss off' as well?

I'm willing to bet those DMs that making theses hardline rulings have had multiple people (if not the entire table) leave their campaign after a session or two.

https://archive.org/details/tsr02012fiendfolio/page/n33/mode/2up

[LadyofRage]

Originally posted by Balltin:

Originally posted by Slynx Jewel:

Faerun is described in forgotten realms campaign setting. Can you present a quote and page number from dnd5 edition that is talking about level cap? Otherwise your quote is a bit outdated.
Lore changed.

News flash: paladins are not restricted to be humans. Or even be good. XD

Wow - he gets flustered when he is wrong. He can't point to any official rule book stating that Male drow are restricted from being a cleric/priest. So if 5e books can 'piss off' (can you imagine getting that heated over D&D?) - then what about 1e books? It's stated that there are Drow priest? They should just all 'piss off' as well?

I'm willing to bet those DMs that making theses hardline rulings have had multiple people (if not the entire table) leave their campaign after a session or two.

https://archive.org/details/tsr02012fiendfolio/page/n33/mode/2up

He isn't wrong when it comes to Lolth. You are.

It's already been given multiple times in this very thread which just goes to show you didn't bother reading it. In fact someone even did a screen capture of the actual pages out of the guides themselves. But instead I assume you want other people to re-educate you on what they have already done simply because it's convenient for you because lord forbid you have to go re-read but sure absolutely they should have to repost the same evidience they've posted over and over and over again.

And since I am not going to do your work for you without compensation, I will tell you this. It is listed in 5e in multiple places. Try both the monster manual itself where it is written clearly and, without any openness to interpretation, specifies that "they cannot be priests." A direct quote in case you missed it.

Then there is the players handbook particularly where it lists personality and background which ironically states it quite boldly where everything else falls within the typical current trend of identity politics. Yet despite this fact it still says in perfect print like a shining beacon standing against the darkness. "You shall not pass" is what it speaks to me whenever I read that passage and it gives me great pleasure not going to lie.

[Slynx Jewel]

Originally posted by LadyofRage:

And since I am not going to do your work for you without compensation, I will tell you this. It is listed in 5e in multiple places. Try both the monster manual itself where it is written clearly and, without any openness to interpretation, specifies that "they cannot be priests." A direct quote in case you missed it.

thing is...do mind that there is a differene between cleric and priest\priestess. cleric is a class. while priest is a social position. they are not the same.

No ordinary priest, a cleric is imbued with divine magic.

"Divine Agents
Not every acolyte or officiant at a temple or shrine is a cleric. Some priests are called to a simple life of temple service, carrying out their gods’ will through prayer and sacrifice, not by magic and strength of arms. In some cities, priesthood amounts to a political office, viewed as a stepping stone to higher positions of authority and involving no communion with a god at all. True clerics are rare in most hierarchies.

When a cleric takes up an adventuring life, it is usually because his or her god demands it. Pursuing the goals of the gods often involves braving dangers in unsettled lands, smiting evil, or seeking holy relics in ancient tombs. Many clerics are also expected to protect their deities’ worshipers, which can mean fighting enemy raiders, negotiating peace between warring nations, or sealing a portal that would allow a demon prince to enter the world.

Most adventuring clerics maintain some connection to established temples and orders of their faiths. A temple might ask for a cleric’s aid, or a high priest might be in a position to demand it."

Once you’ve chosen a deity, consider your cleric’s relationship to that god. Did you enter this service willingly? Or did the god choose you, impelling you into service with no regard for your wishes? How do the temple priests of your faith regard you: as a champion or a troublemaker? What are your ultimate goals? Does your deity have a special task in mind for you? Or are you striving to prove yourself worthy of a great quest?

also players can break those rules and do whatever they want. in the worst case youcan create a female drow cleric. and just change her gender. iirc Ed Greenwood listed few possibilities. ( https://www.sageadvice.eu/how-is-what-we-would-consider-the-medical-component-of-gender-transitioning-accomplished-in-the-forgotten-realms/ )

[LadyofRage]

Originally posted by Slynx Jewel:

Originally posted by LadyofRage:

And since I am not going to do your work for you without compensation, I will tell you this. It is listed in 5e in multiple places. Try both the monster manual itself where it is written clearly and, without any openness to interpretation, specifies that "they cannot be priests." A direct quote in case you missed it.

thing is...do mind that there is a differene between cleric and priest\priestess. cleric is a class. while priest is a social position. they are not the same.

No ordinary priest, a cleric is imbued with divine magic.

"Divine Agents
Not every acolyte or officiant at a temple or shrine is a cleric. Some priests are called to a simple life of temple service, carrying out their gods’ will through prayer and sacrifice, not by magic and strength of arms. In some cities, priesthood amounts to a political office, viewed as a stepping stone to higher positions of authority and involving no communion with a god at all. True clerics are rare in most hierarchies.

When a cleric takes up an adventuring life, it is usually because his or her god demands it. Pursuing the goals of the gods often involves braving dangers in unsettled lands, smiting evil, or seeking holy relics in ancient tombs. Many clerics are also expected to protect their deities’ worshipers, which can mean fighting enemy raiders, negotiating peace between warring nations, or sealing a portal that would allow a demon prince to enter the world.

Most adventuring clerics maintain some connection to established temples and orders of their faiths. A temple might ask for a cleric’s aid, or a high priest might be in a position to demand it."

Once you’ve chosen a deity, consider your cleric’s relationship to that god. Did you enter this service willingly? Or did the god choose you, impelling you into service with no regard for your wishes? How do the temple priests of your faith regard you: as a champion or a troublemaker? What are your ultimate goals? Does your deity have a special task in mind for you? Or are you striving to prove yourself worthy of a great quest?

also players can break those rules and do whatever they want. in the worst case youcan create a female drow cleric. and just change her gender. iirc Ed Greenwood listed few possibilities. ( https://www.sageadvice.eu/how-is-what-we-would-consider-the-medical-component-of-gender-transitioning-accomplished-in-the-forgotten-realms/ )

To start, Clerics are already covered. So nice try but still no. The only out you have, which has always been an out for all things, is the fact the rules state you can play whatever you want so long as the DM allows it in their campaign or find a DM that will. But the fact is that it is forbidden in both the lore and the core rules as of 5e.

Also as Pan cleverly pointed out, using the old gender pay gap myth explanation no less, your last point wouldn't make any sense whatsoever when it comes to gender. I will give you an out here as well though as it specifically states in that whole place in the Players Handbook I told people to look up, where it says it is possible to play a female character that presents themselves as a man or a man who feels trapped in a female body. But that still doesn't break the rule that no actual male cleric of Lolth is allowed.

[Slynx Jewel]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

You cant change your gender in dnd. Even it it was technically possible it wouldn't be allowed for males to change their gender to female, then there wouldn't be any males remaining in drow society

You just need a God for it. There were a suggestion about punishment from lolth above in this thread.
Even elminister was female at some point iirc.
Also reincarnate/wish/polymorph/etc can make this choice for you

[Popsicles]

Originally posted by LadyofRage:

Originally posted by Balltin:

Wow - he gets flustered when he is wrong. He can't point to any official rule book stating that Male drow are restricted from being a cleric/priest. So if 5e books can 'piss off' (can you imagine getting that heated over D&D?) - then what about 1e books? It's stated that there are Drow priest? They should just all 'piss off' as well?

I'm willing to bet those DMs that making theses hardline rulings have had multiple people (if not the entire table) leave their campaign after a session or two.

https://archive.org/details/tsr02012fiendfolio/page/n33/mode/2up

He isn't wrong when it comes to Lolth. You are.

It's already been given multiple times in this very thread which just goes to show you didn't bother reading it. In fact someone even did a screen capture of the actual pages out of the guides themselves. But instead I assume you want other people to re-educate you on what they have already done simply because it's convenient for you because lord forbid you have to go re-read but sure absolutely they should have to repost the same evidience they've posted over and over and over again.

And since I am not going to do your work for you without compensation, I will tell you this. It is listed in 5e in multiple places. Try both the monster manual itself where it is written clearly and, without any openness to interpretation, specifies that "they cannot be priests." A direct quote in case you missed it.

Then there is the players handbook particularly where it lists personality and background which ironically states it quite boldly where everything else falls within the typical current trend of identity politics. Yet despite this fact it still says in perfect print like a shining beacon standing against the darkness. "You shall not pass" is what it speaks to me whenever I read that passage and it gives me great pleasure not going to lie.

He is wrong when it comes to Drow Male Priest. As I clearly displayed from the Fiend Folio. Written in 1981.

The rest is just drivel. No, I haven't bothered reading because I would allow a Male Priest of Lolth all day at my table.

[Slynx Jewel]

Mm restricts priests. They are not always clerics. Some can even lack divine power all together.

Scag doesn't restrict anything at all.

You can create legal cleric in AL.

In phb cleric section doesn't restrict drows in any way. And I believe backgrounds were talking about occupation, not class. (I'll re-check this one again though when I'll get my book).

So I guess unless there is some other restriction nothing prevent you from creating and playing cleric of lolth

Added:
Direct quote from player's handbook:

SEX
You can play a male or female character without gaining
any special benefits or hindrances. Think about how
your character does or does not conform to the broader
culture's expectations of sex, gender, and sexual
behavior. For example, a male drow cleric defies the
traditional gender divisions of drow society, which could
be a reason for your character to leave that society and
come to the surface.

Here. This proves it's possible.
Just add "... And that's how you've ended in Baldur's gate" To the end and you have a perfect backstory for bg3

[Popsicles]

Originally posted by Slynx Jewel:

Mm restricts priests. They are not always clerics. Some can even lack divine power all together.

Scag doesn't restrict anything at all.

You can create legal cleric in AL.

In phb cleric section doesn't restrict drows in any way. And I believe backgrounds were talking about occupation, not class. (I'll re-check this one again though when I'll get my book).

So I guess unless there is some other restriction nothing prevent you from creating and playing cleric of lolth

Added:
Direct quote from player's handbook:

SEX
You can play a male or female character without gaining
any special benefits or hindrances. Think about how
your character does or does not conform to the broader
culture's expectations of sex, gender, and sexual
behavior. For example, a male drow cleric defies the
traditional gender divisions of drow society, which could
be a reason for your character to leave that society and
come to the surface.

Here. This proves it's possible.
Just add "... And that's how you've ended in Baldur's gate" To the end and you have a perfect backstory for bg3

Boom goes the dynamite.

[Lunduke is the Trump of tech]

Keep in mind though that many of these wokeism changes to the rules are just political. It's like how Elon Musk wanted to make a free speech platform but the politicians are threatening him saying he can't do that. So are these forced/pressured wokeism changes legit or not? The true dnd is before those changes.

[Slynx Jewel]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

Keep in mind though that many of these wokeism changes to the rules are just political. It's like how Elon Musk wanted to make a free speech platform but the politicians are threatening him saying he can't do that. So are these forced/pressured wokeism changes legit or not? The true dnd is before those changes.

i believe you've seen the quote from 1st edition of adnd. right on this page.
and i also quoted 3rd edition too.
so my assumption that even if you disregard novels (which has drow clerics too) you'll still have evidence that they were present(even though extremely rare) in rulebooks.

[Lunduke is the Trump of tech]

Something unique existed.. unique... that's the keyword.. look it up.
Irenicus is unique, his spells don't exist in any spell school which players can learn. Just because somethig uniquely exist doesn't mean players should be able to do that especially when it makes no sense. It would make more sense to be able to learn irenicus magic but still we cant, it makes no sense for male lolth drow clerics to exist.

[Slynx Jewel]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Kairos:

Something unique existed.. unique... that's the keyword.. look it up.
Irenicus is unique, his spells don't exist in any spell school which players can learn. Just because somethig uniquely exist doesn't mean players should be able to do that especially when it makes no sense. It would make more sense to be able to learn irenicus magic but still we cant, it makes no sense for male lolth drow clerics to exist.

yet they exist. in the lore and in the rules.
devs even mentioned them as an example. page 121 of PHB.
and btw... they don't even have to worship lolth. there are plenty of gods who'll make Male Drow their chamion and will grant him spells (even just for lulz or to piss off spider queen).

[LadyofRage]

Originally posted by Slynx Jewel:

Mm restricts priests. They are not always clerics. Some can even lack divine power all together.

Scag doesn't restrict anything at all.

You can create legal cleric in AL.

In phb cleric section doesn't restrict drows in any way. And I believe backgrounds were talking about occupation, not class. (I'll re-check this one again though when I'll get my book).

So I guess unless there is some other restriction nothing prevent you from creating and playing cleric of lolth

Added:
Direct quote from player's handbook:

SEX
You can play a male or female character without gaining
any special benefits or hindrances. Think about how
your character does or does not conform to the broader
culture's expectations of sex, gender, and sexual
behavior. For example, a male drow cleric defies the
traditional gender divisions of drow society, which could
be a reason for your character to leave that society and
come to the surface.

Here. This proves it's possible.
Just add "... And that's how you've ended in Baldur's gate" To the end and you have a perfect backstory for bg3

No what this proves is that 5e is telling you if you want to do this then you should look outside of the underdark, which for anyone smart understands that to mean a male cleric of Lolth is not possible. Otherwise why else state it? Particularly when this also goes with what the monster manual says. Sorry game over. Move on. next?