Minthara, Wyll and Karlach. It's all about the Tieflings.

[Rain]

//WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU!//

Spoilers, obviously, but I just wanted to chime in here and say that attempting to get all three of these characters in the same party without going the typical "good route" was an exercise in frustration. Mostly because outside of the "good path", the variations otherwise are rather under-cooked. Severely.

"Raiding the Grove" is only one way to accomplish a specific outcome -- killing the Tieflings. The Druids don't matter. I know this because I put off getting Minthara to do her thing while trying to see what happens else-wise. Here is what I found out.

You can instigate a Druidic purging of the Grove. You do this either one of two ways; attacking the druids directly or attempting to steal the Idol of Silvanus. Either one gets you a cutscene and a big fight on your hands. The fight is also scripted. All druids and tieflings will run to pre-determined spots to engage in their own separate fights. You can keep all the tieflings alive if you engage the druids in combat before they are able to attack them. They focus on you...you kill them -- they live.

All tieflings have dialogue about this. Even Wyll -- he fights to protect the Tieflings along with Rath. After this...you have to deal with the goblins. From what I can tell there is nothing negative from Wyll or Karlach if you kill all the druids.

However...

If you let the druids kill the Tieflings then Wyll and Karlach go, "WTF?!?!" and either will leave or attack you. Once the druids are dead and you keep the Tieflings alive then you have a choice on whether or not you can try to bring Minthara into it. If you do then the tieflings will die and you lose two companions.

Ironically, however, you can gltich this out(I think) if Wyll or Karlach are dead by you, you put them into your inventory, wait until the Goblin Party is over, and then use a scroll to resurrect them -- they apparently get amnesia about the whole thing. Yet, it doesn't really matter for Karlach because from what I can tell she can't get Dammon to upgrade the heart and eventually will self-destruct in Act 3 and there isn't anything you can do.

So, TLDR = I wanted to really see if can get Karlach and Wyll into the party after killing the Tieflings. You can, technically, but it won't be happy and no one without meta-knowledge would ever know/guess how to do this.

Just thought I would share.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Rain:

Minthara, Wyll and Karlach. It's all about the Tieflings.
//WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU!//

Spoilers, obviously, but I just wanted to chime in here and say that attempting to get all three of these characters in the same party without going the typical "good route" was an exercise in frustration. Mostly because outside of the "good path", the variations otherwise are rather under-cooked. Severely.

"Raiding the Grove" is only one way to accomplish a specific outcome -- killing the Tieflings. The Druids don't matter. I know this because I put off getting Minthara to do her thing while trying to see what happens else-wise. Here is what I found out.

You can instigate a Druidic purging of the Grove. You do this either one of two ways; attacking the druids directly or attempting to steal the Idol of Silvanus. Either one gets you a cutscene and a big fight on your hands. The fight is also scripted. All druids and tieflings will run to pre-determined spots to engage in their own separate fights. You can keep all the tieflings alive if you engage the druids in combat before they are able to attack them. They focus on you...you kill them -- they live.

All tieflings have dialogue about this. Even Wyll -- he fights to protect the Tieflings along with Rath. After this...you have to deal with the goblins. From what I can tell there is nothing negative from Wyll or Karlach if you kill all the druids.

However...

If you let the druids kill the Tieflings then Wyll and Karlach go, "WTF?!?!" and either will leave or attack you. Once the druids are dead and you keep the Tieflings alive then you have a choice on whether or not you can try to bring Minthara into it. If you do then the tieflings will die and you lose two companions.

Ironically, however, you can gltich this out(I think) if Wyll or Karlach are dead by you, you put them into your inventory, wait until the Goblin Party is over, and then use a scroll to resurrect them -- they apparently get amnesia about the whole thing. Yet, it doesn't really matter for Karlach because from what I can tell she can't get Dammon to upgrade the heart and eventually will self-destruct in Act 3 and there isn't anything you can do.

So, TLDR = I wanted to really see if can get Karlach and Wyll into the party after killing the Tieflings. You can, technically, but it won't be happy and no one without meta-knowledge would ever know/guess how to do this.

Just thought I would share.

Mhm. Very similar how keeping Alfira as companion exploit works.
Funny but not recommended due to the savegame corruption risk.

[Mike Garrison]

Wyll and Karlach siding with the tiefs is completely in character for both of them.

[Tao314zdin]

I recall you can kill a good bunch of tieflings by entering little thieves hideout and letting them accuse your party of something.

This will agro tieflings in the vicinity and if I recall right you can drag more of them in if you step close-enough.

This method should not upset your companions since it is the tieflings who initiate the fight, but I do not know if that does anything for Minthara...

[wtiger27]

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

Wyll and Karlach siding with the tiefs is completely in character for both of them.

Exactly.

And OP, you can redeem Minthara to a point doing a good run by knocking her out in the Goblin Camp and then rescuing her at the Moonwise Towers Later.

[Toaster Maximus]

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

I recall you can kill a good bunch of tieflings by entering little thieves hideout and letting them accuse your party of something.

This will agro tieflings in the vicinity and if I recall right you can drag more of them in if you step close-enough.

This method should not upset your companions since it is the tieflings who initiate the fight, but I do not know if that does anything for Minthara...

She requires the whole grove to be wiped druids need to be provoked to, and you can't let them finish the ritual

[ahsanford]

Biggest hole in the game -- from someone 700+ hours in, a huge huge fan -- is how the grove sacking hollows out Acts II and III.

I love stakes in games. I love decision A means X, Y, Z is no longer on the table. I have no problem with 'poof goes some nice content if you do this'.

But the lack of stuff to do, people to see, camp party size that results after the grove sacking is simply too high. It's a comical give-to-get proportion: you lose 3-4 companions, a boatload of Tiefs who bring context / depth to your legend by Act III, and some critical participants aren't around for some major setpieces they were intended to be in the room for in Act III.

What do you get in return? Minthara. She's wonderful, but that's not enough.

This isn't about an explicitly evil path needing more stuff. But more characters (from other parts of Act I) should have been able to stick around if you sack the grove. Follow the gobbos or some zhents through Acts II + III. Make Araj Oblodra, Z'Rell or the bugbear merchant a companion. Let Ethel move in as your new Volo. Stuff like that would have backfilled a portion of what was lost when you sacked the grove.

- A

[Chaosolous]

Neat. I can respect that effort.

That said, it is a game, not tabletop or IRL. Which means that there will be programmed outcomes to things. Trying to bypass them and thinking something magical will happen is... optimistic.

Either way, good on ya for the hustle.

[Red Phantom]

It's very easy to get Minthara no matter what you do, all you have to do is knock her out in the goblin camp and then you'll see her later in act II. You don't have to do anything else special other than that and it need not color any of your other decisions.

[ahsanford]

Originally posted by Red Phantom:

It's very easy to get Minthara no matter what you do, all you have to do is knock her out in the goblin camp and then you'll see her later in act II. You don't have to do anything else special other than that and it need not color any of your other decisions.

...which further undermines any motivation to sacking the grove in the first place.

Love Minthara, I knock her out every playthrough. But that's because the game is decidedly more fun with more moving pieces / companions / plots / quests / backstory swirling around than less.

- A

[Dexter]

Originally posted by wtiger27:

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

Wyll and Karlach siding with the tiefs is completely in character for both of them.

Exactly.

And OP, you can redeem Minthara to a point doing a good run by knocking her out in the Goblin Camp and then rescuing her at the Moonwise Towers Later.

I like how we went form Sheepthara shenaningas and ended up with Larian adding voice lines for her