Wow -- someone got RTWP kind of working

[ahsanford]

Not for me, but some modder has pulled off at least the beginnings of RTWP with BG3 (RT, no P).

Story:

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/baldurs-gate/one-baldur-s-gate-3-modder-managed-to-implemented-real-time-combat-like-the-classic-games-but-you-should-probably-wait-for-them-to-figure-out-a-pause-button-before-diving-in/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=social

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEBW4qIW28c

It's a proper hot mess to control/aim, but hey, it's progress if you've always wanted that. I'm turn-based all the way, but here you go if interested.

- A

[belgix]

Nah! That will ruin the spirit of BG3. However, this mod might be interesting for solo players. What a nightmare it would be for the ones who play in tactician or honour modes. It would be like playing chess on steroid.

[Chaosolous]

lmao, bro had to have 203HP just to do that, and everything was set to do like no damage.

You'd have to rebalance the whole game which is why it's always been widely mocked.

Sure, removing turns is possible, but like... that sounds terrible in conjunction with literally every other system in the game.

[Hobocop]

Reminds me of a similar mod in D:OS2 for only Arena Mode, and that only worked because all of the spells and character attributes were rebalanced, the maps were redone entirely to remove incidental interactable objects, and most abilities in D:OS2 have cooldowns by default.

[Chaosolous]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Reminds me of a similar mod in D:OS2 for only Arena Mode, and that only worked because all of the spells and character attributes were rebalanced, the maps were redone entirely to remove incidental interactable objects, and most abilities in D:OS2 have cooldowns by default.

Yes, converting the combat to RTwP is literally asking for a total conversion mod.

That's not impossible but holy feces it's such a tall ask that it'd take a real dedicated modder to do it.

The maps, the enemy placements, the companion AI, the literal ability to pause (which the game doesn't even have as a turn based game), the weapons, rolls, systems, reactions, damage numbers, health numbers, etc and so on until legitimately everything is changed.

I mean, honestly, at that point, just play an OwlCat game.

[emreyigit1967]

I'll give it a miss personally but if this is the sort of thing that can be done with the new tools then I'm all for it! :)

[anachoret]

It is an impressive feat, and that modder deserves accolades.

I agree with the article author though:

"I think real time with pause combat was a disaster for the human spirit and our collective progress."

[ahsanford]

It's such a slippery slope to do this, as others have noted. Even if they implement pausing and even some rudimentary AI for the party (a la BG2), it will break the game experience on so many levels:

1) Scripted boss battles will be a mess

2) Not nearly enough fighting in the game

3) You won't be efficiently knocking down individual enemies = enemies will get off more spells/debuffs/cc moves = you will be pausing constantly to manage this

4) No hard engagement or zones of control rules a la BG2 / Pillars / Owlcat so I imagine a lot of opportunity attacks will not be well handled

5) The computer opponents now need a team AI approach rather than 'how can this one person at this one moment approach its own personal hierarchy of best moves for this moment' -- it would really be a rethink of how to fight.

So bravo that they got this far, but my goodness -- don't push it. I'd rather that very talented modder fix some major pain points in the UI or something.

- A

[ahsanford]

Originally posted by anachoret:

It is an impressive feat, and that modder deserves accolades.

I agree with the article author though:

"I think real time with pause combat was a disaster for the human spirit and our collective progress."

I'm exactly with you on this:

1) Damn. Impressive. Slow clap.

2) ...but please stop. Never ever ever going to play BG3 this way.

- A

[anachoret]

Originally posted by ahsanford:

Originally posted by anachoret:

It is an impressive feat, and that modder deserves accolades.

I agree with the article author though:

"I think real time with pause combat was a disaster for the human spirit and our collective progress."

I'm exactly with you on this:

1) Damn. Impressive. Slow clap.

2) ...but please stop. Never ever ever going to play BG3 this way.

- A

100% Agree. I didn't like it in X-COM: Apocalypse, and I didn't like it Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. It is a strange and awkward middle ground, for sure, where supporting that design just seems to detract from good turn-based design, or good real-time design.

[ahsanford]

Originally posted by anachoret:

100% Agree. I didn't like it in X-COM: Apocalypse, and I didn't like it Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. It is a strange and awkward middle ground, for sure, where supporting that design just seems to detract from good turn-based design, or good real-time design.

100% on Apocalypse, but twentysomething actually me didn't mind RTWP so much with BG1 and BG2.

I didn't have strong opinions back then provided the game tickled my strategy/progression/story needs -- I would jump from turn-based of FO 1 & 2 and hop over to BG 1 and 2 and (while they were very different experiences) didn't feel a terrible drop off in the fun either way.

The older I've gotten, the more I prefer turn-based. DOS2 completely murdered realtime for me. I played the two Owlcat pathfinder + PoE games since then, but man were they a slog compared to looking forward to battles in BG3.

- A

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Chaosolous:

I mean, honestly, at that point, just play an OwlCat game.

Speaking of, Owlcat games actually outright prevent the player from interacting with map interactables when engaged in combat, probably for the exact reason that it'd interfere with targeting and combat flow.

Which is, you know, one of the main reasons environments in RTwP cRPGs are by and large static backdrops that you can't really do anything with in combat scenarios.

[DDkiki]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Originally posted by Chaosolous:

I mean, honestly, at that point, just play an OwlCat game.

Speaking of, Owlcat games actually outright prevent the player from interacting with map interactables when engaged in combat, probably for the exact reason that it'd interfere with targeting and combat flow.

Which is, you know, one of the main reasons environments in RTwP games are by and large static backdrops that you can't really do anything with in combat scenarios.

Iirc they started to play more with map interactions during combat in short sub story of WOTR and in Rogue Trader, but yeah, overall there are none.

[Nifty]

Originally posted by ahsanford:

3) You won't be efficiently knocking down individual enemies = enemies will get off more spells/debuffs/cc moves = you will be pausing constantly to manage this

It's common to pause constantly with rtwp to readjust movement and readjust aoes before the cooldown

[VDRSK]

Oh lord, the flashy effects in real time combat makes it look like a diablo where you can't see jack.

[Maggie]

I'm all for a superior combat mode to go along with turn-based.