Gale becoming a god - Good or Bad ending?

[Archnemesis]

So, I'm curious on everyone's take on this, would ascending Gale to godhood be a bad ending? Obviously the one where he challenges Mystra is the very bad one for him, but not necessarily from Wither's perspective. That said, the choices he makes where he will live in co-existence with Mystra, is him being a deity or chosen of Mystra, a bad ending for him?

I know some have said his familiar complains about him ascending that he is different, but what is everyone's take on this. Do you play him as a benevolent or malevolent deity in your play through as playing as him or your tav/dark urge.

[rubberducky102760]

It didn't go so well for Karsus. But I'm sure Gale would prove the exception. Wouldn't he?

[Archnemesis]

Very interesting take everyone, and thank you all for your responses. To avoid a bulky post going to refrain from quoting so I'll answer in a general sense for brevity.

I have pretty much the same take as some of you. In short I think is merely perception of the individual, and truth be told Gale would be just like the other gods who may or may not be doing a great job by outsiders' perceptions.

So lets add another element to it. If say Gale had a romance other than Mystra would him elevating his lover be considered a counter balance to his vain godhood ambition and make him more lets say benevolent deity? Say in the case of Karlach one could say him giving her godhood is truly saving her from a far worse fate and allowing for her to in a way save him from his darker path with his template being of a God of Ambition.

That is just an example, but a tav/dark urge could fill the same role or make him more malevolent if is that how you played them. Thoughts? And others fill free to answer the main question still if you wish. Just thought I'd add more to the conversation. :)

[Oonayah]

The thing with the gods in the Forgotten Realms is that they're just like the Greek gods, capricious, petty, and flawed. They have all these impressive powers but they're not allowed to use them too much in the mortal realms or else Ao will smack the godhood right out of them. Sure, they can recruit some Chosen henchmen to work in their name, but they're still at the mercy of those perfectly mortal henchmen being mortal.

So Gale being the god of Ambition is kind of funny. All these mortals, so ambitious, just like he was... and he can't do a damn thing but savor their prayers. He got everything he wanted and now it means nothing, he's just a personification of an ideal. He's reached his pinnacle and, when it comes to ambition, all he has left is to, I dunno, buy Twitter? It's not like Mystra is going to be impressed with anything he does at this point.

So God Gale is the bad ending, whether he has figured that out yet or not.

[Banelord]

Originally posted by GriffinPilgrim:

Originally posted by Banelord:

Jergal was a tired old man, a relic of a time long gone, that power he held was slipping through his fingers like sand, and when Bane came to him, he knew his day of doom had come. Still butthurt for it to this day though, while Bane still enjoys his greater deity status in Banehold.

It's an open question whether the Dead Three could have actually beat Jergal. Certainly Bane alone couldn't have managed but it's possible all three might have. But the question is moot, as Jergal quietly retired without fighting. Far from "butthurt" he's quite content with his preferred role as seneschal to Myrkul and even more so Kelemvor.
And given what's happened to all of the Dead Three since he may have been wise; all three died (Midnight killed Myrkul, Cyric murdered Bhaal with a degree of irony and Bane was killed in battle with Torm the True) and while all three clawed their way back to life it has not gone well since then; all three, including Bane, are now mere Quasi-deities, hence the desperate and foolhardy Absolute plan.

Jergal not butthurt? Juts look at the fanfic ending of one possible forks in BG3; its quite obvious that the worthless pile of bones holds grudge agianst his betters, hehe.

And also, perhaps stop reading that fake news from the likes of BadCatMan from Forgotten Realms wiki (who persistently rolls back Bane to a quasi-deity, and his site is just about the SINGLE source that quotes Bane as a quasi-deity out there) and other charlatans in Baldurs gazette who are reading Descent into Avernus incorrectly, and who fail to see thew broader context, thus perpetuating falsehoods.

They would have you believe that the Black Hand Bane himself has been reduced to nothing more than a quasi-deity???? BAH!

If you want the truth, I suggest you turn to official sources such as the Player's Handbook (5th Edition) or the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, where you will see the correct recognition of Banes power. Bane stands as a greater deity, peraps more powerful than has ever been in previous editions.

Now to clear up the confusion caused by SOME FEW quoting Bane as merely a quasi deity, after reading just one campaign (Descent into Avernus); yes, after the Second Sundering, many gods, including Bane, indeed withdrew their overt presence from Toril to restore balance after the chaos of the Spellplague and previous godly conflicts. This withdrawal is just a temporary reduction of influence in specific regions (like Baldurs Gate) or mortal affairs. It doesnt change Banes role as a greater deity on his home plane of Banehold, where his power remains intact.

See, in campaigns like Descent into Avernus, gods such as Bane are depicted as having less direct control over certain areas, leading to the perception of them being quasi-deities. However, in truth, this is classic tactical positioning and narrative flavor and not a true demotion. Bane and the other Dead Three are simply using avatars or lesser manifestations in their schemes on the Material Plane, as gods often do. And this explains the discrepancy between sources: the version of Bane in Descent into Avernus is an avatar or aspect with limited power, while Bane himself remains a greater deity in the grand scheme of the Forgotten Realms cosmology.

Think of Descent into Avernus as taking a bit of creative liberty for teh sake of the story its telling. The game designers often adjust the power dynamics to fit the immediate narrative needs, like making gods feel more grounded so that the player's journey remains the focus. In the case of Bane, while he may be portrayed with a more localized or limited form in that campaign, it doesnt mean his greater deity status in the broader Forgotten Realms lore has changed.

So, finally, in teh bigger picture, Bane still holds his full cosmic power as greater deitiy, as seen in the Player’s Handbook and the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide. The Descent into Avernus campaign just narrows that scope for the sake of telling a specific story. Therefore, he is still the God of Tyranny, but how he operates in Baldurs Gate is just one part of the larger puzzle. One known to me only, he he he 🖤👑💀

[Pimpin Pippin]

Gale is an immature man, who refuses to value anything except his own desires.
Everything and everyone is just something to be walked over on his path to whatever he wants.

Even when he gets the WMD bomb (which is his fault) under control the first major thing he does is try to become a god.
Absolutely zero maturity if he goes down the path of godhood, which would be fitting for a lousy mortal-god i guess.

People who desire such power should never get any power, because the reasons they desire power are always deep mental and emotional issues.

[Moonbane]

I think the god ending can still be good. If you romance Gale, you can choose to join him in the heavens, supposedly as the god of fulfilment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STgz_0vULXQ

I see it as balancing Gale's desires and keeping him from going out of control.
Especially if you are playing as a resisting Durge. Thumbing your nose at Bhaal.

[Panda]

He can cure Karlach (kinda funny that true resurrection scroll somehow can’t do the same).

He can cast, I suppose, really big fireball.
(what else your wizard need to be happy)

He’s mostly good/neutral-good alignment character, so why not.

[rubberducky102760]

Originally posted by Moonbane:

I think the god ending can still be good. If you romance Gale, you can choose to join him in the heavens, supposedly as the god of fulfilment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STgz_0vULXQ

I see it as balancing Gale's desires and keeping him from going out of control.
Especially if you are playing as a resisting Durge. Thumbing your nose at Bhaal.

Ehhh... I don't know. Like his hugs weren't stiff enough already? They made it like kissing with C-3PO? Hard pass. Gale doesn't need to be kept under control. He needs to learn that he can be happy & fulfilled just being himself. And he does it quite well with help from your Tav. Either as a romance partner or just a friend. That's his good outcome.

[Skaraok]

Is Ascended Astarion a bad ending, or Justiciar Shadowheart a bad ending?

For the characters themselves, from a certain point of view, no. They got exactly what they've always wanted.

For everyone else on the Sword Coast? Perhaps not a very good ending.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Skaraok:

Is Ascended Astarion a bad ending, or Justiciar Shadowheart a bad ending?

For the characters themselves, from a certain point of view, no. They got exactly what they've always wanted.

For everyone else on the Sword Coast? Perhaps not a very good ending.

As long as there is no Philip Athans touching the story, any ending is fine.