Wait, I just realized something.

[RhodosGuard]

The Blood of Lathander. IS a mace.
It has spikes on it ffs.
Lathanders iconography is literally the rising sun.

WHY IS IT NOT A ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MORNINGSTAR.

[Skaraok]

Larian didn't want to code a whole new weapon type?

Just guessing.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Skaraok:

Larian didn't want to code a whole new weapon type?

Just guessing.

My dude.
Morningstars are in the game. Literally every Bugbear in Act 1 uses one.

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Morningstars

[RhodosGuard]

It's especially buffling considering Clerics have Morningstar Proficiency by default. But there are a total of 3 unique Magic Morningstars.
I am usually not someone who would like modding BG3, but this is one mod I would immediately use. That one change could make Shield + Weapon War Clerics kinda playable.

[Skaraok]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

My dude.
Morningstars are in the game. Literally every Bugbear in Act 1 uses one.

Huh. I somehow completely forgot.

In that case, yeah, that makes no sense. Maces only do 1d6 damage versus morningstar's 1d8. It's not like The Blood is an incredibly OP weapon to begin with.

In other news, I found a mod that does exactly what you're asking:
https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/1878/

[Mike Garrison]

Originally posted by Skaraok:

It's not like The Blood is an incredibly OP weapon to begin with.

It certainly is in Act 2! Almost every enemy in the act is blinded by it, which gives then disadvantage and gives you advantage. Regardless of the actual damage done by swinging the mace, the aura is very powerful. It also has a LEVEL 6 sunbeam spell you can use once per long rest to just massively F up large numbers of undead enemies ... which is pretty much every enemy in Act 2.

[Detective Costeau]

I mean, I agree it's kinda strange, but I really don't think the change to a morningstar is going to seriously change how something like a War Cleric plays to a significant degree or make them more playable.

The difference between the average roll on a d6 and a d8 is only 1 damage per attack, after all. It's a nice bonus, but it's not going to determine if a build is viable or not.

To be clear, I agree it is a little odd that it's not a Morningstar, and there's not any reason not to use a small mod to make it one. I'm just noting that if a War cleric with a Morningstar version is viable, the exact same build using the default mace version will work too.

[アンジェル]

The Blood of Lathander is just a Mace thing.

[Skaraok]

Originally posted by Mike Garrison:

It certainly is in Act 2! Almost every enemy in the act is blinded by it, which gives then disadvantage and gives you advantage. Regardless of the actual damage done by swinging the mace, the aura is very powerful. It also has a LEVEL 6 sunbeam spell you can use once per long rest to just massively F up large numbers of undead enemies ... which is pretty much every enemy in Act 2.

I agree, against shadows it is very busted. Probably best in slot for Clerics during that time. After Act 2, it falls off a bit unless you're doing Radiant Orb build.

I just wouldn't call it overpowered because you really should not be using the mace as your main action. Even with Radiant Orb, you probably won't be using it to attack all that often. There are better choices for melee weapon damage.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Detective Costeau:

I mean, I agree it's kinda strange, but I really don't think the change to a morningstar is going to seriously change how something like a War Cleric plays to a significant degree or make them more playable.

The difference between the average roll on a d6 and a d8 is only 1 damage per attack, after all. It's a nice bonus, but it's not going to determine if a build is viable or not.

To be clear, I agree it is a little odd that it's not a Morningstar, and there's not any reason not to use a small mod to make it one. I'm just noting that if a War cleric with a Morningstar version is viable, the exact same build using the default mace version will work too.

The game seriously lacks +2/+3 One Handed 1d8 Weapons with effects you'd actually wanna use.
There's the Rapier you get for saving Vanra, but apart from that?
Blood of Lathander, the Mace you get for casing Divine Intervention (but why, when you can use Divine Intervention to clear all of Raphaels allies in one swoop)
Voss Longsword is really niche, there is no Legendary Warhammer apart from the Orphic Hammer.
So why would I ever play a 1handed War Cleric when I can go 2handed, pick up GWM and get +10 damage to all my attacks?

[MystShade]

not to forget all the items that synergize with it too.

its the same for the flay of age +3
iconic BG 1 and 2 item, and just leftover junk sold in act 3 like wtf

[Terran Ghost]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Originally posted by Detective Costeau:

I mean, I agree it's kinda strange, but I really don't think the change to a morningstar is going to seriously change how something like a War Cleric plays to a significant degree or make them more playable.

The difference between the average roll on a d6 and a d8 is only 1 damage per attack, after all. It's a nice bonus, but it's not going to determine if a build is viable or not.

To be clear, I agree it is a little odd that it's not a Morningstar, and there's not any reason not to use a small mod to make it one. I'm just noting that if a War cleric with a Morningstar version is viable, the exact same build using the default mace version will work too.

The game seriously lacks +2/+3 One Handed 1d8 Weapons with effects you'd actually wanna use.
There's the Rapier you get for saving Vanra, but apart from that?
Blood of Lathander, the Mace you get for casing Divine Intervention (but why, when you can use Divine Intervention to clear all of Raphaels allies in one swoop)
Voss Longsword is really niche, there is no Legendary Warhammer apart from the Orphic Hammer.
So why would I ever play a 1handed War Cleric when I can go 2handed, pick up GWM and get +10 damage to all my attacks?

That would probably ruin the balance of the game. The DLC/expansion for the first two games added new powerful weapons that basically broke the game. Like the shield that made you immune to beholder attacks.

[Detective Costeau]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

So why would I ever play a 1handed War Cleric when I can go 2handed, pick up GWM and get +10 damage to all my attacks?

Well, if you're looking for maximum melee damage, you wouldn't.
The thing is, you still wouldn't even if there were a bunch of +2 or +3 1d8 melee weapons available, because GWM would still out-damage them. That's just how the 5e D&D rules shake out, GWM is by far the best option for melee damage. That would still be true even if the Blood of Lathander were a morningstar.

Now, I agree there could be a few more +2 one handed weapons, and I can see why people would use mods to add some. In fact, I actually have a few in my mod list.
But even without them, there's a handful of +1 and +2 weapons that also do +1d4 non-physical damage available in late Act 2/early Act 3, and those are more than enough to get the job done. I honestly think the extra die of damage probably helps more than an extra +1 would.
E.g. I used https://bg3.wiki/wiki/The_Sacred_Star as my Paladin Tav's weapon through most of Act 3 on a Tactician game, and I never felt like the character wasn't pulling their weight in fights.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by Detective Costeau:

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

So why would I ever play a 1handed War Cleric when I can go 2handed, pick up GWM and get +10 damage to all my attacks?

Well, if you're looking for maximum melee damage, you wouldn't.
The thing is, you still wouldn't even if there were a bunch of +2 or +3 1d8 melee weapons available, because GWM would still out-damage them. That's just how the 5e D&D rules shake out, GWM is by far the best option for melee damage. That would still be true even if the Blood of Lathander were a morningstar.

Now, I agree there could be a few more +2 one handed weapons, and I can see why people would use mods to add some. In fact, I actually have a few in my mod list.
But even without them, there's a handful of +1 and +2 weapons that also do +1d4 non-physical damage available in late Act 2/early Act 3, and those are more than enough to get the job done. I honestly think the extra die of damage probably helps more than an extra +1 would.
E.g. I used https://bg3.wiki/wiki/The_Sacred_Star as my Paladin Tav's weapon through most of Act 3 on a Tactician game, and I never felt like the character wasn't pulling their weight in fights.

Probably because they're a Paladin.
Divine Smite is a Hell of a Drug.

[Detective Costeau]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Probably because they're a Paladin.
Divine Smite is a Hell of a Drug.

Absolutely. Doubly so on a half-orc with Savage Attacker. One of the best builds for still doing solid damage with a one-handed weapon.
The bigger point still stands, though. GWM builds aren't dominant because there aren't enough good one-handed weapons. They're dominant because they do a lot more damage than other builds, assuming weapons with approximately equal bonuses on them, and the game generally rewards builds that kill enemies rapidly.

[jonnin]

To make it extra useless. If it were a morningstar, it would do 1d8 and be almost viable, though in truth it should be a morning star with 1d8 + 1d4 radiant damage (remember this is a top quality weapon, yet it does less than many green quality weapons when swung!) if you were supposed to actually wield it as a weapon and not just a once a day spell toy. As it is, the item is a complete piece of vendor trash other than a couple of specific fights where it (literally!) shines. There are a couple of groups of undead where blinding some of them is handy, but for the most part the undead are not very strong enemy and not worth the reduced damage item.

GWM is very nice. But dual wield shines when you have a lot of attacks (4 per turn standard on most anything/thief3 builds) that each add a lot of dies from itemization (+4d4 per hit late game, 2 rings, neck, and gloves at the minimum).
the 2h gwm is pulling +20 raw damage from the feat (2 attacks, 3 if barb (early game) or fighter late game). Assuming 3 attacks, 30 damage, and that is if you hit with all that -5 going on. 4d4 averages 8 per hit and 4 shots averages 32 -- its about the same. That didn't account for the 2h guy having the same d4 adds over his 2 shots though, so its a net 16ish damage less per round... ouch! The DW guy gets his str or dex added more times, but the same thing happens again.. the 2h guy gets that twice, the dw guy gets it 4x, but the 2h guy is still ahead.

So what happened there? ^^
5e rules happened. Older rules added attacks for the offhand (granted by higher tier feats in two weapon fighting, each feat added another offhand attack) and mainhand both as you leveled up. Older rules let you have big stats (30+ easily at high levels) so those per turn str bonuses piled on too. The new action economy and attacks per round design and very few feats changes all hit the DW players very hard. Its really just that simple... DW isn't as good under the new rules due to bad balance.