Really, REALLY trying to enjoy Paladin

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

But the early game has really got me down. I'm currently running DEX to avoid MAD and I'm rushing Phalar Aluve for GWM. Got my smites all set up, and I'm using Vow whenever I can. But it's still so rough. There's just so many classes that would be absolutely curb stomping by level 4, I refuse to believe Paladin can't. So it HAS to be something I'm doing wrong.

Does anybody have suggestions, other than "uSe A sTReNgtH ElixAaR" or play Bard?

[[TG] zac]

Originally posted by Kernest:

Originally posted by @%thesock10150alpha49:

Even rogue has Bonus hide and Sneak Attack.

The thing about Rogues is that that's basically all they get.

At level 1 they feel strong and a Paladin might not, but by level 12 it's the reverse, by a lot.

This is sadly very true.

Statistically its rarely worth going beyond level 3 in game on a rogue and never worth going beyond 5 for their reaction that halves an incoming attack (if you have any spells its better to just grab shield)

Its extremely good for a multiclass dip due to extra skill profs, extra bonus action and experise though.

[[TG] zac]

Originally posted by StrayBullet:

Originally posted by Pan Darius Cassandra:

Dexadins work just fine - their primary dmg source comes from Smites, which work on any melee attack, so you're j7st swapping a Str based weapon for a Dex based weapon instead, and possibly medium armor instead of heavy, but since you're proficient in both you can rly ise either based on whatever BiS you have atm. Paladins don't have any abilities which specifically rely on either Str or Dex, they just need one or the other so they can swing a melee weapon - and there's a strong case to be made for Dex since it gives you initiative and Dex saves.

The biggest problem early game is Paladins will suffer -2 ab and -3-4 damage a swing if not relying on Str and a two hander... which if we're talking everburn blade then that's 4-8 damage missing a swing, Which can all be fixed if dude would pop an elixir, but he's too elite to use gear...

This is one of the reasons I miss finnese 2 handed weapons from earlier editions of D&D.
I wish they would Give us back Elven Curve blades, Elven spears, scorpion whips, spiked chains etc....

Building a character that used 2 handed weapons and dex used to be completely viable.

[Dexter in the Dark]

if I am playing a Paladin I max out STR and CHA, then get the gauntlets of dexterity from the Gith merchant.

[StrayBullet]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Cassandra:

Originally posted by StrayBullet:

The biggest problem early game is Paladins will suffer -2 ab and -3-4 damage a swing if not relying on Str and a two hander... which if we're talking everburn blade then that's 4-8 damage missing a swing, Which can all be fixed if dude would pop an elixir, but he's too elite to use gear...

Ok, but the difference in dmg die is peanuts compared to what you're getting from Smites and damage riders.

Not really GWF style is 6 damage min 3 on a long sword

Which when we add all the damage differences and riders that the two handed sword can get, which is exactly the same as using a long sword, the average damage of an attack is already more than adding level 1 smites to damage ... and you're ahead 2ab which is 10% greater hit potential... if you don't think that's huge early game wasted potential for a poopy dex build that shuns elixirs then I dunno what to tell you ... Since at level 4 You'll only get 4 level 1 smites per long rest ... which isn't ♥♥♥♥ ... so I'd rather be doing more than average smite damage per swing ... with a regular attack... that means the smites will be that much more devastating too... So when I do need massive damage I have it, not Oh now I can pretend I'm using str and a greatsword if I expend a smite!

[Renlish]

I've been running Paladin (Oath of Devotion) in a recent run - almost finished the game with it. It's really all about your support crew and your gear throughout. But running a DEX Pally is... wishful thinking. They're not really meant to work that way. They can but... yeah.

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

Originally posted by Hobocop:

Eh, 16 Str and Cha with 10 Dex is totally fine. I'd take Alert at level 4 if initiative is a real pain point or save those Vigilance elixirs for yourself.

Just got to the creche. This spread fit what I wanted out of Paladin a little better, but the real MVP here is Alert. I thought I was going to miss out on a ton of damage by not taking a damage feat first. Even though I probably am, having a more SAD spread AND still going first is making my playthrough a lot smoother. I definitely appreciate the advice.

[Detective Costeau]

Glad you got things figured out, Paladin's a really fun class. And 16 Strength and Charisma with 10 dexterity and heavy armor is my usual Paladin set up as well. My first save was with a Half-Orc paladin with Savage attacker- the tadpole auto-crit ability is more or less a once a day 'enemy dies now' button with that setup.

Though people are IMO overstating how bad Dex paladin is- a paladin with 16 in Dex instead of STR with a rapier, shield, and the best medium/light armor you can find will absolutely work. I personally prefer the strength build- someone's gotta wear some of the incredibly good heavy armor you find, and it's not going to be the wizard- but that doesn't mean Finesse paladin isn't viable if you have the right gear for it.

[Kernest]

Originally posted by Detective Costeau:

Finesse paladin isn't viable if you have the right gear for it.

That kinda sorta is the whole ball-game here.

The thing is, in BG3 we know exactly the loot that is out there and how/when to get it.

There's exactly one +3 rapier in the game and you get it very late. Also it (somewhat) relies on keeping your off-hand empty. The rest of the rapiers either are available too late or suck.

[seeker1]

BTW, I personally think one of the things in the game that's missing is there is no Holy Avenger in BG3. A paladin's signature sword, and nothing's there. Phalar Aluve is nice, and presented like Excalibur, but it's more a bladesinger's or bard's weapon, not a paladin's.

So yep, there is a Blade of Justice in the Treasure Trove mod which is a pretty close fascimile, and a Holy Avenger mod at mod.io now too, just letting folks know this oversight can be corrected.

[StrayBullet]

Originally posted by seeker1:

BTW, I personally think one of the things in the game that's missing is there is no Holy Avenger in BG3. A paladin's signature sword, and nothing's there. Phalar Aluve is nice, and presented like Excalibur, but it's more a bladesinger's or bard's weapon, not a paladin's.

So yep, there is a Blade of Justice in the Treasure Trove mod which is a pretty close fascimile, and a Holy Avenger mod at mod.io now too, just letting folks know this oversight can be corrected.

There shouldnt be... you're too low level for an avenger honestly...

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by StrayBullet:

Originally posted by seeker1:

BTW, I personally think one of the things in the game that's missing is there is no Holy Avenger in BG3. A paladin's signature sword, and nothing's there. Phalar Aluve is nice, and presented like Excalibur, but it's more a bladesinger's or bard's weapon, not a paladin's.

So yep, there is a Blade of Justice in the Treasure Trove mod which is a pretty close fascimile, and a Holy Avenger mod at mod.io now too, just letting folks know this oversight can be corrected.

There shouldnt be... you're too low level for an avenger honestly...

Eh, compared to other magic weapons in BG3, the Holy Avenger isn't that OP.

It has threr properties:

• +3 weapon enchantment.
• +2d10 radiant dmg vs. undead & fiends.
• Aura that gives advantage to saves vs. spells.

Note:

• There are other +3 weapons in BG3 (but not many).
• The extra radiant dmg is pretty good (especially on top of Improved Smite and Divine Smite), but it's only against undead and fiends, but to be fair, there are quite a few of those.
• The aura is on par with an Ancient Paladin's lvl 7 aura and other abilities in the game.

I play with a mod that gives me a Holy Avenger short sword at the start of the game, and while it does make a Paladin more powerful, it does not make them invincible.

Also, there's literally no reason they couldn't make a +1 or +2 "lite" Holy Avenger.

It's on par with Blood of Lathander.

[StrayBullet]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Cassandra:

Originally posted by StrayBullet:

There shouldnt be... you're too low level for an avenger honestly...

Eh, compared to other magic weapons in BG3, the Holy Avenger isn't that OP.

It has threr properties:

• +3 weapon enchantment.
• +2d10 radiant dmg vs. undead & fiends.
• Aura that gives advantage to saves vs. spells.

Note:

• There are other +3 weapons in BG3 (but not many).
• The extra radiant dmg is pretty good (especially on top of Improved Smite and Divine Smite), but it's only against undead and fiends, but to be fair, there are quite a few of those.
• The aura is on par with an Ancient Paladin's lvl 7 aura and other abilities in the game.

I play with a mod that gives me a Holy Avenger short sword at the start of the game, and while it does make a Paladin more powerful, it does not make them invincible.

Also, there's literally no reason they couldn't make a +1 or +2 "lite" Holy Avenger.

It's on par with Blood of Lathander.

Yeah, a Lore reflecting Holy Avenger would be +3 or +5/6 vs evil, weapon base again in holy/positive damage, dispel on hit, magic resistance etc etc, that weapon sounds on par with the Gith Silversword you can pretty easily secure in Act 1 at level 6.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Originally posted by StrayBullet:

Originally posted by Pan Darius Cassandra:

Eh, compared to other magic weapons in BG3, the Holy Avenger isn't that OP.

It has threr properties:

• +3 weapon enchantment.
• +2d10 radiant dmg vs. undead & fiends.
• Aura that gives advantage to saves vs. spells.

Note:

• There are other +3 weapons in BG3 (but not many).
• The extra radiant dmg is pretty good (especially on top of Improved Smite and Divine Smite), but it's only against undead and fiends, but to be fair, there are quite a few of those.
• The aura is on par with an Ancient Paladin's lvl 7 aura and other abilities in the game.

I play with a mod that gives me a Holy Avenger short sword at the start of the game, and while it does make a Paladin more powerful, it does not make them invincible.

Also, there's literally no reason they couldn't make a +1 or +2 "lite" Holy Avenger.

It's on par with Blood of Lathander.

Yeah, a Lore reflecting Holy Avenger would be +3 or +5/6 vs evil, weapon base again in holy/positive damage, dispel on hit, magic resistance etc etc, that weapon sounds on par with the Gith Silversword you can pretty easily secure in Act 1 at level 6.

To my knowledge, there are four +3 weapons.

Balduran's Giant Slayer is really badass, I'm using it on Karlach on a modded playthrough right now.

A Holy Avenger would be a great Act 3 weapon to top off a Paladin.

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

Originally posted by Detective Costeau:

Though people are IMO overstating how bad Dex paladin is

I have played the 10/2 Bardadin, and that thing shreds any argument that Dex doesn't work. Pure paladin plays similarly with dex, it just runs dry much quicker and hits slightly weaker. My fallacy was taking the Dex Paladin and trying to squeeze it into the Str Paladin playstyle.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Dexadin + Larethian's Wrath = shred.