Really, REALLY trying to enjoy Paladin

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

But the early game has really got me down. I'm currently running DEX to avoid MAD and I'm rushing Phalar Aluve for GWM. Got my smites all set up, and I'm using Vow whenever I can. But it's still so rough. There's just so many classes that would be absolutely curb stomping by level 4, I refuse to believe Paladin can't. So it HAS to be something I'm doing wrong.

Does anybody have suggestions, other than "uSe A sTReNgtH ElixAaR" or play Bard?

[Kernest]

Detective Costeau původně napsal:

And why would you wear heavy armor like Chainmail on a Dex character? It'll totally negate your Dex bonus to AC.

You should wear whatever armour gives you the best AC and/or other benefits.

Personally I would consider using the Luminous Armour from the Underdark, to go with smites.

Towards the endgame, unless you have someone else to use them, I'd deck a Dexadin in one of the many excellent heavy armours to leave more of the excellent medium armours to other team members.

[StrayBullet]

@%thesock10150alpha49 původně napsal:

wtiger27 původně napsal:

If you do, it will be much more challenging. Depending on what difficulty you are playing at. One level in this game, makes a big difference.

I think a good, early HM benchmark is the Bulette. The new mechanics will tell you where the weaknesses are in the party. If the Bulette gives you trouble at 4, then there's a synergy issue with your team.

And the Paladin actually did pretty well when I finally ran it against the Bulette, but the wizard wasn't up to snuff and so I just reset because I kind of count running from things as a loss.

Your build just sucks for level 4 to be blunt... Bulette is easy at 4, it's called Oils of Sharpness.
You're dex based with a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ weapon for paladin...

If you've rushed Phalar, Rush Luminous Armor ... paladin fixed, Especially with 2nd attack, you end up becoming unhittable just about ...

[Hobocop]

Eh, 16 Str and Cha with 10 Dex is totally fine. I'd take Alert at level 4 if initiative is a real pain point or save those Vigilance elixirs for yourself.

[StrayBullet]

Hobocop původně napsal:

Eh, 16 Str and Cha with 10 Dex is totally fine. I'd take Alert at level 4 if initiative is a real pain point or save those Vigilance elixirs for yourself.

they could easily get away with 8 14 16 8 10 17 start and quaff str Elixir. If they use GWF feat and style, then it's absolutely an 8 wisdom move to not quaff str elixir ... you need the AB +Oil + Auto bless from healing = +5-8 AB completely negative GWF massive negative.

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

StrayBullet původně napsal:

Bulette is easy at 4, it's called Oils of Sharpness.

Genuinely never used oil on it. Just punch through the resists with raw damage, or hit it with a spellcaster. I think it resisting so much non-magical damage is what makes it a good benchmark, because you need to be doing a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of damage to get through them. I'll admit though, knowing that there's an easy win button definitely knocks the fight down a few pegs.

StrayBullet původně napsal:

they could easily get away with 8 14 16 8 10 17 start and quaff str Elixir.

I don't want to rely on elixirs for my build.

Hobocop původně napsal:

Eh, 16 Str and Cha with 10 Dex is totally fine. I'd take Alert at level 4 if initiative is a real pain point or save those Vigilance elixirs for yourself.

Everything I'm reading online might suggest the same as you. I really don't want to have to use the first feat on alert, but it does solve the only low-dex issue.

[StrayBullet]

@%thesock10150alpha49 původně napsal:

StrayBullet původně napsal:

Bulette is easy at 4, it's called Oils of Sharpness.

Genuinely never used oil on it. Just punch through the resists with raw damage, or hit it with a spellcaster. I think it resisting so much non-magical damage is what makes it a good benchmark, because you need to be doing a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of damage to get through them. I'll admit though, knowing that there's an easy win button definitely knocks the fight down a few pegs.

StrayBullet původně napsal:

they could easily get away with 8 14 16 8 10 17 start and quaff str Elixir.

I don't want to rely on elixirs for my build.

Hobocop původně napsal:

Eh, 16 Str and Cha with 10 Dex is totally fine. I'd take Alert at level 4 if initiative is a real pain point or save those Vigilance elixirs for yourself.

Everything I'm reading online might suggest the same as you. I really don't want to have to use the first feat on alert, but it does solve the only low-dex issue.

Then go Warlock pact your weapon and swap out the pact is permanent and will make you use Cha... you'll still be missing 2 AB. Ranged gets Archery style ... Melee gets easy 21 Str to make up for the loss of +2 AB style...

and there is no issue really other than fake ones you're putting upon yourself ... being like I'm gonna make a ♥♥♥♥ build and expect to punch through bulette defenses is probably just a low mental stat move by you ... especially when you're like "I don't use items to make my characters better. I'm elite..."

Okay chum, wallow in your forced bad build play style that YOU FREELY CHOOSE.

Play all builds naked without gear at that rate... bruh...

And you're not punching through any 30 HP damage at level 4 without oils so stfu...

A 4th level party may be able to take Bulette without oils if they respecced for Witchbolt spam, guess what takes less effort ... Oils of Sharpness... and is way more satifying than having to respec my party to a cheese method.

[The Yeen Queen]

@%thesock10150alpha49 původně napsal:

I'm currently running DEX

Found your problem. Who in their right mind would run a DEX Paladin?

[StrayBullet]

Night Foxx (She/her) původně napsal:

@%thesock10150alpha49 původně napsal:

I'm currently running DEX

Found your problem. Who in their right mind would run a DEX Paladin?

It's feasible, with the right gear and can run insanely high AC early game with a mage armor up, shield, ring of protection etc etc ... bracers of ac +2 ...

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Night Foxx (She/her) původně napsal:

@%thesock10150alpha49 původně napsal:

I'm currently running DEX

Found your problem. Who in their right mind would run a DEX Paladin?

Dexadins work just fine - their primary dmg source comes from Smites, which work on any melee attack, so you're j7st swapping a Str based weapon for a Dex based weapon instead, and possibly medium armor instead of heavy, but since you're proficient in both you can rly ise either based on whatever BiS you have atm. Paladins don't have any abilities which specifically rely on either Str or Dex, they just need one or the other so they can swing a melee weapon - and there's a strong case to be made for Dex since it gives you initiative and Dex saves.

[StrayBullet]

Pan Darius Cassandra původně napsal:

Night Foxx (She/her) původně napsal:

Found your problem. Who in their right mind would run a DEX Paladin?

Dexadins work just fine - their primary dmg source comes from Smites, which work on any melee attack, so you're j7st swapping a Str based weapon for a Dex based weapon instead, and possibly medium armor instead of heavy, but since you're proficient in both you can rly ise either based on whatever BiS you have atm. Paladins don't have any abilities which specifically rely on either Str or Dex, they just need one or the other so they can swing a melee weapon - and there's a strong case to be made for Dex since it gives you initiative and Dex saves.

The biggest problem early game is Paladins will suffer -2 ab and -3-4 damage a swing if not relying on Str and a two hander... which if we're talking everburn blade then that's 4-8 damage missing a swing, Which can all be fixed if dude would pop an elixir, but he's too elite to use gear...

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

StrayBullet původně napsal:

Pan Darius Cassandra původně napsal:

Dexadins work just fine - their primary dmg source comes from Smites, which work on any melee attack, so you're j7st swapping a Str based weapon for a Dex based weapon instead, and possibly medium armor instead of heavy, but since you're proficient in both you can rly ise either based on whatever BiS you have atm. Paladins don't have any abilities which specifically rely on either Str or Dex, they just need one or the other so they can swing a melee weapon - and there's a strong case to be made for Dex since it gives you initiative and Dex saves.

The biggest problem early game is Paladins will suffer -2 ab and -3-4 damage a swing if not relying on Str and a two hander... which if we're talking everburn blade then that's 4-8 damage missing a swing, Which can all be fixed if dude would pop an elixir, but he's too elite to use gear...

Ok, but the difference in dmg die is peanuts compared to what you're getting from Smites and damage riders.

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

StrayBullet původně napsal:

he's too elite to use gear...

Thank you. It's about time somebody recognized that.

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

Pan Darius Cassandra původně napsal:

Ok, but the difference in dmg die is peanuts compared to what you're getting from Smites and damage riders.

Oh, if only they got two weapon fighting as a style at level 2. Smites for everybody.

[Hobocop]

@%thesock10150alpha49 původně napsal:

Oh, if only they got two weapon fighting as a style at level 2. Smites for everybody.

You can still dual wield without the fighting style. All the style does is let you add your ability modifier to damage to your offhand attacks.

Of course, you'd also be blowing through your fairly limited spell slots much more quickly.

[Lightseeker]

Ive played a lot with Paladin and found that 12 dex and bow of awareness was quite enough for a decent initiative.Otherwise i took alert feat at lvl 4 and GWM at 8th.Personally i keep the smites for crit hits by manually adjusting the criteria.