Really, REALLY trying to enjoy Paladin

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

But the early game has really got me down. I'm currently running DEX to avoid MAD and I'm rushing Phalar Aluve for GWM. Got my smites all set up, and I'm using Vow whenever I can. But it's still so rough. There's just so many classes that would be absolutely curb stomping by level 4, I refuse to believe Paladin can't. So it HAS to be something I'm doing wrong.

Does anybody have suggestions, other than "uSe A sTReNgtH ElixAaR" or play Bard?

[Oozy Monster]

None of the martial classes really shine until they get the extra attack at level 5. I'd take care of the gnolls and make a few haste potions (with the hyena ears) and use them as needed until leveling.

[Detective Costeau]

I honestly think running a Str Paladin in heavy armor is better than going Dex. You have to deal with usually going last, but that's manageable, and while Phalar Aluve is great for a lot of builds, it's just plain going to be less powerful than a proper Greatsword for actually attacking if you're going for two-handed weapons.

I personally prefer Savage Attacker to GWM for paladins- you're rolling so many dice on your Smite attacks that getting to reroll and take the high number on all of them substantially boosts your average damage.

And as Oozy said, most martial classes really start to click at level 5, not 4. I've beaten the game with a single-class Paladin MC, they're absolutely very powerful if you use them well.

[wtiger27]

Paladins can be very strong in this game. Level 4, also depends on what content you are trying to do. Some encounters and areas, are not meant to be done at that level.

If you do, it will be much more challenging. Depending on what difficulty you are playing at. One level in this game, makes a big difference.

[wtiger27]

Originally posted by Oozy Monster:

None of the martial classes really shine until they get the extra attack at level 5. I'd take care of the gnolls and make a few haste potions (with the hyena ears) and use them as needed until leveling.

Good point. Level 5 and the extra attack, makes a big improvement for paladins, rangers and fighters, etc.

[seeker1]

And here I thought this would be another complaint about the Oath system.

Said more than once, if you have alignment, people complain about alignment. This game doesn't use alignment. But then arguing over how to follow Oaths becomes the new version of the argument over how to follow your alignment. LOL.

I suspect - they didn't say - Larian will actually add an entirely new oath-following/breaking mechanic for Oath of the Crown - something no modder has done (because when it comes to THAT stuff, their mods usually make you follow mechanically one of the existing three oath systems.)

Granted, since there are mods that essentially allow you to respec out of Oathbreaker for free, no need to deal with it or a certain knight anymore.

[FunkyMonkey]

Level 5 is BIG for Paladins, not 4. Not only do they get Extra attack at level 5, they also get 2nd level smite slots. I'd also recommend Savage attacker over GWM. Paladins want to smite and to smite, you need to hit. And GWM really reduces your chance to hit.

Also, don't overlook that you can cast Bless. It's great for a Paladin to cast, you are unlikely to concentrate on something else that is better than Bless for your party and it also means that your Cleric can spend their concentration on something else.

[Harukage]

Depends. Vengeance paladin with Vow of Enmity and Magic/Elemental weapon can hammer those All In atacks without much trouble.
To the OP i wonder how you can even make paladin not OP? I guess you answered this question by going DEX and longsword.

[Kernest]

I have Minthara decked with Moonlight Glaive, Polearm Master and those gloves that inflict 2 turns of Radiating Orb upon dealing Radiant damage.

It's not the highest possible damage output, but damn does she make everyone miss.

Also on a lesser note, look into Potion of Angelic Reprieve, buy any you see and all the mats you can. Then you can basically go nuts with level 1&2 smites without needing to long rest in between. Works well with my otherwise short rest dependent team.

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

Originally posted by Oozy Monster:

None of the martial classes really shine until they get the extra attack at level 5.

But that's not entirely true. Battlemaster gets surge and maneuvers, Monk gets TB, Gloomstalker exists. Even rogue has Bonus hide and Sneak Attack. All really solid Nova options for early game. Smites are a really big tool as well, I just need to be able to use them better, I guess.

Originally posted by Harukage:

I guess you answered this question by going DEX and longsword.

I've tried strength versions before and had similar issues. In fact, I'd say that trying to play a party-face paladin WITHOUT the strength elixirs is even harder than just running Dex.

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Also, don't overlook that you can cast Bless.

I was genuinely too worried about smites to entertain that. I'll have to give it a go.

[Kernest]

Originally posted by @%thesock10150alpha49:

Even rogue has Bonus hide and Sneak Attack.

The thing about Rogues is that that's basically all they get.

At level 1 they feel strong and a Paladin might not, but by level 12 it's the reverse, by a lot.

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

Originally posted by Kernest:

At level 1 they feel strong and a Paladin might not, but by level 12 it's the reverse, by a lot.

But I gotta get to level 12 for that to be a thing.

I know that mid-high level Pally is a monster. Before people really explored multiclassing, Vengeance was always in the top 3. I'm just trying to figure out how to tolerate the early game with it. I was hoping to make the Paladin the "forefront" of the party and not rely on the busted early game classes, but I might have to bring one just to get into the creche/Grimforge area where Paladin starts to take off.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I mean...you're playing a Dexadin and taking GWM? Phalar Aluve isn't even a greatweapon. Take Savage Attacker instead.

Use a bow. You might as well, since you've got Dex. Soften targets up before they close with you, then switch to rapier/sword.

Get +1 chainmail from Roah Moonglow. Cast Bless on the party.

Before lvl 5, that's about all you can do. Maybe grab a decent shortsword, like First Blood, from the Underlark.

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

Originally posted by wtiger27:

If you do, it will be much more challenging. Depending on what difficulty you are playing at. One level in this game, makes a big difference.

I think a good, early HM benchmark is the Bulette. The new mechanics will tell you where the weaknesses are in the party. If the Bulette gives you trouble at 4, then there's a synergy issue with your team.

And the Paladin actually did pretty well when I finally ran it against the Bulette, but the wizard wasn't up to snuff and so I just reset because I kind of count running from things as a loss.

[Detective Costeau]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Cassandra:

I mean...you're playing a Dexadin and taking GWM? Phalar Aluve isn't even a greatweapon. Take Savage Attacker instead.

Use a bow. You might as well, since you've got Dex. Soften targets up before they close with you, then switch to rapier/sword.

Get +1 chainmail from Roah Moonglow. Cast Bless on the party.

Before lvl 5, that's about all you can do. Maybe grab a decent shortsword, like First Blood, from the Underlark.

Versatile weapons do count as great weapons if you're two handing them. It's still not an optimal choice for a lot of reasons, but you can use GWM with a longsword.

And why would you wear heavy armor like Chainmail on a Dex character? It'll totally negate your Dex bonus to AC.

[@%thesock10150alpha49]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Cassandra:

I mean...you're playing a Dexadin

I definitely have been using the bow and such. The fatal flaw in that is the waiting until they're close to smite. It means that my DPR until then is awful.

And I still very much want to be the classic 2-Handed Paladin, but until the creche can alleviate my initiative woes, I can't go STR without elixirs AND still be a decent party face.

If you have a build suggestion, though, hit me with it. I know a lot about the game, but not enough about Paladins and I'm always open to new ideas.