New Upcoming Subclasses

[アンジェル]

I am very surprised to see a content update in form of new subclasses

Originally posted by SaloAtLarian:

View full event information here:
https://steamcommunity.com/ogg/1086940/announcements/detail/4461474037375172736

It is probably the least expected thing after it has been announced that we are closing in to the final patches. The photo mode - no surprise. Crossplay - long awaited. But subclasses?

'Guess there is still new reason to replay the game.

[Kernest]

Originally posted by TG zac:

There is already a mod that adds it so them doing so likely won't take too much work.
As for if they tweak it & how much IDK, not like the game follows the table top directly and gives us opportunity attack when someone stands up so its not nearly as broken here.

I'm actually currently on a Hexblade mod playthrough and it's still plenty broken.

For example Lorroakan's whole thing is the reaction attack he takes that does more damage based on the available myrmidons, but Eldritch Smite forces you prone without a roll and that's all she wrote.

Basically the same goes for any boss that isn't immune to prone.

[[TG] zac]

Originally posted by Kernest:

Originally posted by TG zac:

There is already a mod that adds it so them doing so likely won't take too much work.
As for if they tweak it & how much IDK, not like the game follows the table top directly and gives us opportunity attack when someone stands up so its not nearly as broken here.

I'm actually currently on a Hexblade mod playthrough and it's still plenty broken.

For example Lorroakan's whole thing is the reaction attack he takes that does more damage based on the available myrmidons, but Eldritch Smite forces you prone without a roll and that's all she wrote.

Basically the same goes for any boss that isn't immune to prone.

Ya I spose they could add a DC check to avoid the prone, either way you are still getting a big damage boost.

Its less powerful then table top to be sure cause of no opportunity attack on standing up but still very powerful cause of all the things prone does.

[Lily]

Originally posted by Kernest:

Originally posted by Lily:

What I really hope is they rebalance a lot of the invocations and add more. That'll do far more to change up the Warlock's playthroughs than adding a hexblade.

Well if they're gonna go to the trouble of adding Hexblade to the game, there is no way they aren't adding Eldritch Smite.

Only question is if they make it an invocation, in which case might as well add some more, or they might turn it into a class feature, in which case who knows if they touch the invocations.

Eldritch Mind, Lance of Lethargy, Grasp of Hadar, Tomb of Levistus are all classics they could add. Eldritch Smite would be nice. I'd like to see the Pact boons worked on. Chain is outclassed by Shovel. Extra attack on an imp with its painfully low hit points and low chance to hit with its mediocre damage at level 5+ is just sad. I'd be nice if we could get the pact boons improved. Blade should have extra extra attack at level 11, Chain could should be able to summon something valuable at level 5 and have that improved at level 11 like at that level is being able to choose to summon a Cambion, Djiin, or Deva with extra attack really out of the question? And for tomb is it too much to ask for 3 level 4 spells not normally on our spell list we can cast once a day?

Idk... I've been thinking about this for a while. And If I knew how to Mod I'd fix the pact boons myself...

[[TG] zac]

Originally posted by Lily:

Originally posted by Kernest:

Well if they're gonna go to the trouble of adding Hexblade to the game, there is no way they aren't adding Eldritch Smite.

Only question is if they make it an invocation, in which case might as well add some more, or they might turn it into a class feature, in which case who knows if they touch the invocations.

Eldritch Mind, Lance of Lethargy, Grasp of Hadar, Tomb of Levistus are all classics they could add. Eldritch Smite would be nice. I'd like to see the Pact boons worked on. Chain is outclassed by Shovel. Extra attack on an imp with its painfully low hit points and low chance to hit with its mediocre damage at level 5+ is just sad. I'd be nice if we could get the pact boons improved. Blade should have extra extra attack at level 11, Chain could should be able to summon something valuable at level 5 and have that improved at level 11 like at that level is being able to choose to summon a Cambion, Djiin, or Deva with extra attack really out of the question? And for tomb is it too much to ask for 3 level 4 spells not normally on our spell list we can cast once a day?

Idk... I've been thinking about this for a while. And If I knew how to Mod I'd fix the pact boons myself...

Most of the things you mentioned are frankly just 5e issues.
3.x and pathfinder 1-2e the familiars health, armor and attack bonus actually scales off of the person who summoned it's level and they have a lot more useful abilities with the option to unlock a lot more more.
(granted in 3.X and 1e the penalty for having one die was also harsher as it could cause damage to carry over to the person who summoned it since you were bound to each other)

So if they are going to make chain or tomb actually useful they would have to home brew a lot as you said.

Tomb could maybe see some invocations that do what you said and be a bit more viable.
Chain would need quite a bit.

[seeker1]

Cool. I was just answering a question about this very topic this morning. I said they hadn't said anything official about Patch 8 or that there would be one. They DID say there will be more updates.

Well, they did with this announcement, and yes, Virginia, there will be a Patch 8, it will be (early) next year (the parentheses I admit is my assumption, but I don't think they meant December 2025), and it will have (as they said earlier) Crossplay & Photo Mode. I will also surmise there could be other feature adds, improvements, or bugfixes, but no specifics on that.

BTW, it's not exactly certain what this means.

With the continued support of mod authors in the community testing out new features, we have big updates still to come - including adding even more functionality to let you tell your own stories.

I interpret this to mean, or maybe I'm just hopeful, that more of the Toolkit's ability to modify dialogue, quests, scripts, and story will be unlocked, even without turning to the "in the wild" unlocked "Moonglasses" version.

Now, let's turn to the topic of the thread proper. Like everybody else, I was caught by surprise about the subclass announcement. Interesting choice. Every class will get one new subclass. Now, I admit also having the "why" reaction. Why when there are so many subclass mods anyway, admittedly fewer at mod.io, but so many at Nexus? Well ... let's be honest ... Larian knows their own tools and code better than any modder could ... and of course, very likely, could do a better job. (To be clear, as with any developer, not necessarily, but.)

So let's turn to the specific, and not just to the general, and what they're doing.

Bard -- College of Glamour. Yes, mod versions already exist. Personally, I might have preferred College of Creation or College of Spirits. But whatever. A good choice, I think. I like the mod.io version of College of Spirits because it lets you pick which Tale from Beyond you use instead of just getting it randomly. Sure, you gotta be lvl14 (thus using ULC); and it's not RAW; but I still think it's GOOD.

Barbarian -- Path of Giants. Eh, don't really like any of the 5E Barb paths, and maybe Path of Giant, particularly for Karlach, but whatevs. The only mods I'm using here are homebrew, but that's because there is no 'official' 5E 'firebarian'. (Storm Herald, maybe, but, not, really.)

Cleric -- Death Domain -- well, it's awesome for an evil "dark side" cleric, maybe you want it for a "Shar or bust" Shadowheart, but eh, I might have wanted one of the other unused domains for a good or neutral cleric.

Druid -- Circle of Stars -- I'mma gonna just say something, the mod.io Circle of Stars mod isn't Patch 7 legit fully (meaning it interferes with other mod.io druid subclasses and isn't totally simpatico with Patch 7), so ... good. (Unless author changes this.)

Paladin -- Oath of the Crown. Really? They chose this over Oath of Conquest, Oath of the Watchers, or Glory. Hmmkay. Thing is, it might just include its own oath code and consequences for breaking it, UNLIKE the Oath mods from modders.

Fighter-- Arcane Archer -- well, this is probably going to be the 5E RAW Arcane Archer, which is not terrible, but I honestly prefer the "Ancient" Arcane Archer at mod.io because, well, it's closer to the 3E Arcane Archer, and is more powerful and better, with more arcane shots, and that's good. All that said, (Ancient) Arcane Archer and the newer Blood Archer mod are the only ones I'm using for Fighter subclasses.

Monk -- Drunken Master. Cool, so Larian. Would I have preferred Sun Soul, Kensei, or Ascendant Dragon. Yes. And the good news, they just arrived (at mod.io) today.

Ranger -- Swarmkeeper. Uh, OK. But they really chose this over Fey Wanderer, Horizon Walker, or my personal fave, the Drakewarden?

Rogue -- Swashbuckler. OK, I like the archetype of this subclass, but hate its implementation. The homebrew Pirate rogue and the new Duellist homebrew class are far better "swashbucklers". Meaning, the awesome ability to duel with cutlasses and dual swordplay. And ones I'm using.

Sorcerer -- like everybody else, I'm surprised they chose Shadow Sorc over Divine Soul. Obviously, things could be very interesting for a Shadow Sorc, dealing with the Shadow Curse in Act 2 ....

Warlock -- Hexblade. Well, I think Hexblade warlock subclass is one of the most frequently requested, and if you think about it, kinda makes sense for a Pact of the Blade warlock who calls himself Blade of Frontiers. Eh. Even if he is, yeah, serving a Fiend.

Wizard -- Bladesinger. OK, there are lot of gish class mods AND subclass mods (Hexblade is sorta a gish subclass, meaning a spellblade or battlemage). Gish class mods are legion, two I'm using are Arcane Vanguard and Duskblade. Anyway, Bladesinger is a big ask for a wizard subclass for BG3, heck the big Expansion Mod offers it by name, not too surprising here, and it gives an 'official' gish option besides the meh Eldritch Knight. I guess EK is the more arcane fighter, and Bladesinger is the more bladey wizard. Bladesinger is almost SURELY gonna include a non-mod, 'legit' implementation of the 5E blade cantrips.

Most of my posts can be long and this one was too, but the announcement is big.

[Grade 2 Fixer Camellia]

Didn't larian say they aren't working on the game anymore?
So wouldn't this be just WotC?

[Hobocop]

Originally posted by Grade 2 Fixer Camellia:

Didn't larian say they aren't working on the game anymore?
So wouldn't this be just WotC?

They just stopped working on a full fledged expansion, but they were always pretty clear that a patch with full crossplay support was in the works.

We just didn't know it would include more subclasses, and pure speculation on my part, these subclasses may be what was potentially going to be in the expansion during planning before they pulled the plug.

[squalltheonly]

Most of these were mods already, so should I delete them?

[seeker1]

I personally would wait until you find out if they are better or worse than pre-existing mod based ones.

With a good developer, and Larian is not bad, I expect they will probably be better; but honestly you won't know until you try them.

Also "better" could be based on subjective things, like the mod one you're using can level to 20 with ULC, and Larian's version only levels to 12, and you might prefer the first. Granted, I'm only interested in some of these options, and those would be the only ones I'd look at, anyway.

[Agent Chieftain]

Great... Do you know how much time I've spent theory-crafting builds in the build planner already? Close to half of my listed game hours are fake, because I didn't really play. I kept the game on the character creator/level up screen, while messing the build planner.

Now I have 12 more sub-classes to worry about?

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Agent Chieftain:

Great... Do you know how much time I've spent theory-crafting builds in the build planner already? Close to half of my listed game hours are fake, because I didn't really play. I kept the game on the character creator/level up screen, while messing the build planner.

Now I have 12 more sub-classes to worry about?

You can start playing before the new subclasses are released. That way you can look forward for another playthrough in the future. After having done the origins once already, the new subclasses is like an all whole new motivator to replay the game "just one more turn". It is really a nice surprise.

Also, the announced photo mode seems also more full fledged than what I have imagined. I thought they would just slap some sort of time stop and weird filters/frames and that was it. But the additional options which can be seen in the preview images are quite promising.

[Harukage]

Kind of weird Larians did not go with the Oath of Conquest. No real choice for evil paladins is meh. Oathbreaker is just so bad.
I hope they will finaly add Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade cantrips. Given that they are adding Hexblade and Bladesinger.

[seeker1]

Well, Larian isn't doing Oath of Watchers, but c'mon, modders, somebody bring it over to Mod.io, happens to be my fave of a lot of the other 5E options.

[seandeven]

Circle of the Stars, SwarmKeeper, and Shadow Sorcerer I will be looking forward to playing.
Hexblade I figured the would have gone Celestial... but ok. I can use a mod for that.
Glad that they kept the work tab open.

I expect the necro cantrips being Tool the Dead, Sapping Sting and Spare the Dying. We will see though, can't wait. I do hope to see either Booming blade or Green-Flame blade.