mod request - paladin oath upgrades for rp / narrative

[Drusyc]

While I like the idea of oathbreaker, I find it frustrating that it's the only class change caused by interaction with your character choices, and it kinda makes it a de facto thing to do if you're just looking for (narrative) character growth.

I think it would be a good idea to have upgraded paladin oaths after enough related options were chosen, and enough "good boy points" were accumulated. Ik it may stray from traD&D, but it gives a nice narrative and character boost for playing your oath, and doesn't make you feel gimped for not breaking it. Narratively, there is a difference between simply not breaking your vows, and actively doing all you can in service of your oath, so this can make sense.

*Edit: this should use dialogue options already in game, so I'm not asking for added quests.*

Example: Oath of Devo after fighting the hag -

take power (bad boy points / oathbreaker)
convince hag to give the power and free the girl (no difference)
[paladin][oath of devotion] kill hag and release girl (good boy points)

upgrades could look like this (feel free to change the names if they fit better another way):

Oath of the ancients --> Oath of the wilds
additional nature / holy magic
nature / holy cantrips, bonus actions and skills
(this name could probably use the most change, as it sounds like a downgrade; i also thought of "Oath of Tradition", but this keeps the naming convention of the original oath)

Oath of Devotion --> Oath of Absolution
Additional holy / defensive magic
holy / defensive cantrips, bonus actions and skills

Oath of Vengeance --> Oath of Retribution
Additional offensive magic
offensive cantrips, bonus actions and skills

Obviously there could be more to these upgrades; I was just giving a basic example.

[jk2l]

1st) over complicated leveling system
2nd) there already leveling system where you gain more spells and ability while level up

[Drusyc]

Originally posted by jk2l:

1st) over complicated leveling system
2nd) there already leveling system where you gain more spells and ability while level up

1st: oathbreaker already exists, this is an adjacent option for oath upgrades.
2nd: obviously.

3 / 10 troll; you receive no clown awards.

[jk2l]

Originally posted by Drusyc:

Originally posted by jk2l:

1st) over complicated leveling system
2nd) there already leveling system where you gain more spells and ability while level up

1st: oathbreaker already exists, this is an adjacent option for oath upgrades.
2nd: obviously.

3 / 10 troll; you receive no clown awards.

oath breaker is different. paladin is all about oath, and oath is a code they need to follow. oath breaker is a form of punishment where they stray away from their oath.

but your "quest style" change of oath is more a progression, this should be just under leveling system. a tree branching style of leveling system is why i say it is over complicated, because one key thing about DnD 5e is simplicity leveling system so new player can easily adapt

[Drusyc]

Originally posted by jk2l:

Originally posted by Drusyc:

1st: oathbreaker already exists, this is an adjacent option for oath upgrades.
2nd: obviously.

3 / 10 troll; you receive no clown awards.

oath breaker is different. paladin is all about oath, and oath is a code they need to follow. oath breaker is a form of punishment where they stray away from their oath.

but your "quest style" change of oath is more a progression, this should be just under leveling system. a tree branching style of leveling system is why i say it is over complicated, because one key thing about DnD 5e is simplicity leveling system so new player can easily adapt

Looking at what OB gets it's definitely not a punishment. Even if you consider it adjacent to the other oaths, it's the biggest possible narrative change to your character from decisions you make, which really sucks if you just want to be a pally because you lose that narative progression.

It's also not quest style at all, it's based on dialogue choices that are already in the game. It's just not gimping people who don't want ob, and rewarding roleplay, and gives more options only relating to the oath you already chose, so it doesn't add any complexity for the player

At the end of the day, this is a mod request; if you don't like it, don't make or download it.

[seeker1]

There's additional paladin oaths you can get at mod.io, though not as many as you can get at Nexus. Oath of Conquest, Watchers, Redemption, Glory, the Zealot (think these all come from various 5E sources). And a bunch of homebrews, like Oath of the Storm, the Phoenix, etc., etc. Each come with additional abilities and ways of channeling your oath.

So far the mod makers have made the oathbreaking consequences match one of the existing oaths, Ancients/Devotion/Vengeance.

Nobody's yet figured out how to make a new set of "breaking consequences" for a different oath, or add quests to the existing or new oaths; that said, I think with the unlocked toolkit it might become possible.

Minthara will always default to Vengeance and Kerz to Devotion, if you don't respec them at Withers (but if you do, they can take mod/custom oaths).

There's also mods to let you start out fallen as an Oathbreaker AND will change the game to allow you to respec if you start that way, no dealing with a certain knight. If you want to start out as sorta a death knight or blackguard. Also giving you the ability of Unholy Smite with necrotic damage.

Also, if you use ULC & Paladin Overhaul, your paladin can start getting 4th and 5th level spells, like Banishing Smite, and Destructive Wave, and some abilities for those levels 13-20.

[Drusyc]

Originally posted by seeker1:

There's additional paladin oaths you can get at mod.io, though not as many as you can get at Nexus. Oath of Conquest, Watchers, Redemption, Glory, the Zealot (think these all come from various 5E sources). And a bunch of homebrews, like Oath of the Storm, the Phoenix, etc., etc. Each come with additional abilities and ways of channeling your oath.

So far the mod makers have made the oathbreaking consequences match one of the existing oaths, Ancients/Devotion/Vengeance.

Nobody's yet figured out how to make a new set of "breaking consequences" for a different oath, or add quests to the existing or new oaths; that said, I think with the unlocked toolkit it might become possible.

Minthara will always default to Vengeance and Kerz to Devotion, if you don't respec them at Withers (but if you do, they can take mod/custom oaths).

There's also mods to let you start out fallen as an Oathbreaker AND will change the game to allow you to respec if you start that way, no dealing with a certain knight. If you want to start out as sorta a death knight or blackguard. Also giving you the ability of Unholy Smite with necrotic damage.

Also, if you use ULC & Paladin Overhaul, your paladin can start getting 4th and 5th level spells, like Banishing Smite, and Destructive Wave, and some abilities for those levels 13-20.

I'm more looking for added narrative flair for oath rp, but that is helpful and I may look into it at some point; ty!

[seeker1]

The problem with "added narrative flair" is the Toolkit is somewhat limited in editing dialogue, consequences for actions like oathbreaking, and quests. There is an unauthorized hacked version of the Toolkit "Moonglass" which seems able to do that.

If stuff is made that way, and I'm starting to see it appear, it will only be at Nexus. People are starting to edit the romances, the quests, and story progression. But only with "Moonglass" is it really possible.

[Drusyc]

Originally posted by seeker1:

The problem with "added narrative flair" is the Toolkit is somewhat limited in editing dialogue, consequences for actions like oathbreaking, and quests. There is an unauthorized hacked version of the Toolkit "Moonglass" which seems able to do that.

If stuff is made that way, and I'm starting to see it appear, it will only be at Nexus. People are starting to edit the romances, the quests, and story progression. But only with "Moonglass" is it really possible.

That's fair. There are dialogue options in game that can help with this, they're just not used in any interesting way. Is it possible to alter consequences of dialogue to track how often you used oath choices, or is it entirely untouchable?