What is the weakest class?

[rmfranco]

Title.
I'm looking to mod a little more, as it'll be later in the week at least before I fix my mod issues at this rate.

[Slav Mcgopnik]

Originally posted by TaKo:

Originally posted by Slav Mcgopnik:

Overall with a subclass? 4 elements monk.

while they are overall worse than the other subclasses for martial combat and worse than actual casters for.. casting, i still think 4 elements monk >single class rogue any subclasses, personally

I meant more in the sense of "assuming you are multiclassing".

4 Elements monk can't really be salvaged for multiclassing as it doesn't really give you anything or efficiently synergize with anything else, and it's not really good as a single class either.

Single class Rogue probably is worse than single class 4 elements monk, but it is very useful in many multiclass builds.

[Exarch_Alpha]

Curious but which is the "pure" class that has the least amount of actions, and which one has the most?

[jonnin]

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

Curious but which is the "pure" class that has the least amount of actions, and which one has the most?

actions (not bonus actions, not included!):
fighter has most, with 3 + surge
monk has 3 as well (flurry, normal, and 2nd attack at 5th)
may only be subclass (??) but one of the barbarians has extra in rage.
warlock has 3 EB strikes at max level though that is sort of a special case and maybe not fair?

casters only have 1 (cleric, wizard, sorcerer, etc)

rogues only have 1 but its boosted by sneak attack and most rogues dual wield so its a little misleading to say just 1. Subclasses matters too: eg warlock POTB has 2nd attack but POTT does not, some bards have 2nd attack at 6th but not the caster one, etc.

[Viper]

In the beginning..Wizards.

[AokiYakumo]

Originally posted by rmfranco:

Title.
I'm looking to mod a little more, as it'll be later in the week at least before I fix my mod issues at this rate.

As far as answering this question, honestly, there's not enough criterium to really qualify this statement.

So, I'll go ahead and give some thoughts as to what class - I believe - is weakest in the context of specific playstyles/metrics.

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DAMAGE PER ROUND:

- BURST
As far as the worst burst DPS is concerned, we're looking at Cleric, sadly. Highest damage per round with base features (assuming 65% eff.acc and two targets in AoE), would be 54 with a Sunbeam or 27 with Spirit Guardians. Outside Tempest Cleric (which requires setup, and assuming no multiclassing lacks a lot of the faculties that make Ice/Lightning DPS such a valuable build path), you're really not getting a lot of screen-nuke damage per screenshot numbers from this class. It's not their point: Clerics excel at persistent DPS and debuffing; Spirit Guardians and Sunbeam both have repeatable numbers, and are Radiant damage sources which is huge because it means a base Cleric is a great chassis or Radiant Orb, increasing their damage over time and itemizing a lot of their action economy and even some enemy action economy for damage. Death by a thousand cuts, basically.

- PERSISTENT
The worst class for persistent DPS (damage from round to round) is actually Fighter - specifically, Battlemaster. Battlemasters excel greatly at nova burst: by putting all their eggs into one basket, Action Surging on turn 1, and blowing their load of superiority dice, they're effectively able to dish out some SERIOUS damage on a single target (or potentially multiple targets if each one has less than 80 HP) - upwards of 200-300 in a single turn. They just can't function well beyond that first couple of turns because they lose half their damage (or more) after their nova, with averages dropping to the 80-100 range (lacking Action Surge, superiority dice, and any major resource-based itemization like Ki or Sorcery Points, you are reduced to your weapon and build. This can make up for a ton, but it also makes Fighters one of the most expensive carries in the game since almost all of their best gear is either late game superboss rewards or 10-15k purchases plus all the Haste, Bloodlust, Cloud Giant, Vicious Elixirs you need to invest into).

TANKING:
- For all the great firepower and serious mobility this class gets, a word of caution: DON'T make your Monk a facetank. A d8 hit die on a class that doesn't incentivize CON and lacks any major armor profs. makes for a class that really relies on ally debuffs to survive most encounters where they get pinned down. They REALLY rely on high AC (21-23 with ways to generate enemy attack disadv.) and their 15-21m move speeds to survive; take that away and they go down. Hard. The fact a Dragon Sorcerer can out-bulk a Monk says something.

SUPPORT:

- BUFFING
Warlocks have sh*t buffs. Their best options are Armor of Agathys (which requires a high level spell slot for full effectiveness, and is only target self), Invisibility (which is really quite niche unless you're playing Surprise Spam or Stealth Archer cheese), Haste 1/LR (The spell is great, the limit on it is crap, and you have to be Tomepact to get it which means you miss out on Bladepact shenanigans). and maybe Protection from Evil/Good or Mirror Image (but one gets outclassed by Radiant Orb for its major benefit while the other is self-target). They really rather prefer to excel in debuffing or area control where they can maximize the effectiveness of their spell slots.

- DEBUFFING
Druids really can't debuff well. Their best option is Contagion which requires a high level slot and THREE saves to stick effectively, while the rest of their kit makes them nonviable for Reverb or Mental Fatigue (Call Lightning doesn't have the hits per use to make Lightning Charges stack effectively and lacks the AoE to make Reverb good, and none of their conditions are easily repeatable to make Stormy Clamour proc off). Summons & Area Control are where Druids excel, severely.

- HEALING
Never ask a woman for her weight, a gamer for their IP address, or a Wizard for their healing. The first gets you slapped, the second gets you banned, and the third just doesn't exist outside of summoning Myrmidons or through drain-tanking. The best they can do is Healing Vapors which is 2d8, compared to the 1d4+13 a Cleric can get from a MUCH lower spell slot. DO ask a Wizard for their buffs & area control, however: Longstrider is the GoAT, They get Haste way more often than a Warlock (3-8 times a day or more depending upon how many spell slot rests they have per day), they can cast things like Improved Invisibility or Stoneskin, Abjurers specifically get a ward for off-tanking which is phenomenal, and Transmuters pass out buffs like candy.

- CROWD CONTROL
Let's be honest. Rogues cannot effectively crowd control. They do really well at burst damage and skill utility tho.

- SKILL JUNKIE
Fighters are some of the worst in the game for skill use. STR/CON incentives mean that their only usable skill is Athletics, compared to Monks who have DEX/WIS incentives to make them good for Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Perception, Insight, Survival, etc. If you play a Fighter, make them your Phys DPS; remember, you're a class with really high burst damage so take advantage of that.

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Now, I want everyone to notice how the "worst class" changes from role to role. The fact it does, and there's not a lot of overlap (if at all), says a lot about balance in this game.

[jonnin]

^^ That is a great breakdown. I would argue on the monk (there just isn't any reason to use dex on a monk because tavern brawler is too strong) and there also isn't a good reason to not use some armor on one (at least early game) via race; even light armor and shield as a human is pretty useful until end of act 2. I know the race-armor isn't technically tied to the class, but with every 1/2 elf, human, gith, and 1 type of dwarf to pick from, its no sacrifice to pick one of those. Mid and Late game you can use better itemization and drop back to unarmored. No matter what you do that, you still don't face tank with them, so its moot for your breakdown, though a wizard face tanks worse than my ideas, unless you blow spells to do it, which is just BAD use of spell slots.

[pirate135246]

Originally posted by Jonny Boy:

Not including Multiclassing or magic items equipped Weakest is:

1. Rogue (easily by far no contest)
2. Ranger
3. Druid
4. Barbarian
5. Monk
6. Warlock
7. Cleric
8. Bard
9. Wizard (should be higher but they are missing alot of spells and alot have been nerfed)
10. Paladin
11. Fighter
12. Sorcerer

ranged slashing flourish makes bards #2 at worst

[Fliqpy]

Originally posted by Smugass Braixen-Chan:

Going by my Tabletop D&D Knowledge;

Bard and Ranger.

These may have been re-balanced in BG3, but I haven't tried them yet.

Bard is broken. Ranger is ass.

[FLY paladin]

I can say most op class on honor mode: No.1 Warrior No. 2 Monk , since they nerfed the haste. No. 3 Sorcerer

[Panzerbjorne39]

Definitely a pure Rogue that’s not multiclassed at all. 5e version of Rogue is a totally neutered stripped down version. Really sucks. Runner up for next worst is Ranger.

[RD540EDGE]

Originally posted by Smugass Braixen-Chan:

Going by my Tabletop D&D Knowledge;

Bard and Ranger.

These may have been re-balanced in BG3, but I haven't tried them yet.

ranger is extremely powerful in BG3, though bard is rather similar to DnD, the jack of all trades master of none class.

[AsianGirlLover]

Four Elements Monk

[Thorak]

These are some bad classes in early (lvl 1-4), mid (lvl 5-8) and late game (lvl 9-12):

Early game: Wizard. Most other classes has some things going for them but wizard has a single action and no really good tricks.
Mid game: Rogue, Wizard, druid. This is where the martial classes (except rogue) gets their second attack and casters has not yet got their end game spells/spell slots.
Late game: Rogue is extremely weak late game. Barbarian and ranger starts to fall behind as well.

I would allow rogue to sneak attack 2 times per round at lvl 6 and add a feat that is only possible to take for ranger and barbarian at lvl 12 that gives the third attack same as fighter. I would also allow wizards to use the quicken metamagic for 2 arcane points.

[BlueBangkok]

It depends on what you mean by "weakest class". If pure, then it's pretty clear from this thread. But everything goes out of the window if you count in multi-classing (rogue+ranger is dope af, as is bardadin).

[Callirgos]

Weakest Class is MultiClass. An absolute self inflicted nerf. Imagine having all these subclasses and still thinking multiclass is a good idea. ... skibidi brain rot.