Canon Evil Durge Party Setup

[Zlorfik [CH/BY]]

Hi everybody

Foreword

First off, this is not for people who do not consider playing evil. I love playing evil. It represents a heavily underrepresented way to play games or consume any kind of media. With that out of the way, I am trying to come up with a proper canon evil Dark Urge party.

Dark Urge's default subclass is Storm Sorcerer and the subrace is White Dragonborn. So that's what I will stick with. However, in order to decide exactly what way to go, I want to go over the evil companions.

Astarion

Astarion is the earliest and default evil character in the game. Yes he is, deal with it. He is also by default an Arcane Trickster Rogue. It seems many people consider Arcane Trickster to be weak or flavourless and I have to disagree. Being able to cast Phantasmal Killer from Stealth and then hiding for 10 turns to give the enemy impossible saves is my understanding of fun. Yes, it requires a scroll for that. But then again, money literally grows on trees, why not just buy every scroll available. While most Rogues focus on Dexterity as their main stat, I upgraded my Astarion with a full focus on Intelligence in mind. Adding (eventually) the Rhapsody Dagger from Cazador and a few other items for up to +6 to spell save DC should be enough to make all enemies fail their saving throws.
This is the build I envision for Astarion:
https://eip.gg/bg3/build-planner/?buildId=cly3naur800kfd42lfv0ascav

Shadowheart

Yes, the lady of Shadows is also by default evil. Like Astarion, she needs convincing to show a more compassionate side. She is by default a Trickery Cleric. While this may appear weak at first, it does synergise with a Rogue. Giving advantage on Stealth checks is useful in and out of combat. Invoke Duplicity can guarantee a Rogue's Stealth attack. Beyond that, there are also just a bunch of useful, to clerics otherwise also available control spells like command and blind (which i find very much on brand for a Sharran). Furthermore, Shadowheart has an entire outfit ready for her with the Dark Justiciar set. She can use it to cast Darkness every round if she wants to, can make the party virtually untouchable within its bounds and can provide bonus action damage as well. She can also provide party assistance by casting Pass without Trace, allowing everybody to be good at stealth.
This is the build I envision for Shadowheart:
https://eip.gg/bg3/build-planner/?buildId=cloga8whc055vd4xxcaj54r10

Lae'zel

Arguably the least outright evil party member, Lae'zel still fits with her insatiable bloodlust and intolerance for weaklings. She is by default a Battlemaster Fighter. While I think the subclass is very strong, I do not intend to keep her for the entire game, but she is required for Act I. As such, I will not provide too much detail on her. But she is definitely the go-to for completing your early party.

Minthara

In German there's the saying "good things come last". Well, that's Minthara. Minthara is a Vengeance Paladin who starts out dual-wielding Maces. While I am not necessarily fond of that, it does allow for an additional time a smite could be applied so I ran with it. She also gets access to the haste spell, which can come in handy to be cast on someone like Shadowheart or Dark Urge in order to increase their combat effectiveness. She mostly makes use of incapacitated enemies to eliminate them quickly. Instead of disabling them like Lae'zel might have, she will just outright kill them. Yeah, replace Lae'zel with Minthara. If Shadowheart and Lae'zel might have a disagreement in camp, maybe encourage Shadowheart to fulfil her dream of killing Githyanki. While Minthara doesn't specifically have an item set for her, she does come with some Drow apparel that can be expanded upon. Now, given that's a light armour, it lends itself better to stealth, but from a protection perspective, it's pretty poor. As such a high dexterity score is quite important for her.
This is the build I envision for Minthara:
https://eip.gg/bg3/build-planner/?buildId=cly3pa6jk00mbd42l0ip888uk

Dark Urge

Finally, the big man himself. This is the one I struggle with the most and the reason I am writing this discussion. We can see from the party selection with Astarion, Shadowheart and Minthara, that stealth does play a somewhat prominent role in the party with 2 characters actively pursuing it. It would only be natural to reinforce that synergy by gearing into it with Dark Urge as well, especially given the background Dark Urge has. Furthermore, Dark Urge also has an equipment set that seems appropriate with the Bhaalist set. However, Dark Urge by default doesn't wear light armour and also doesn't profit from enemies having piercing vulnerability. Then again, nothing prevents your Dark Urge to stand next to an enemy in order to provide a debuff for enemies to capitalise on with e.g. Astarion. What I think Dark Urge is intended to do is to provide the party with Greater Invisibility, a spell that can be twinned on two party members. It will remove all stealth requirements from Astarion and can provide e.g. Minthara an easy way to gain advantage on attacks. A good Dark Urge also makes use of the Cloak to turn invisible every turn.
The thing i struggle with most is that the storm sorcery part doesn't seem to be used at all. I added Bloodthirst as offhand weapon so Dark Urge can also melee attack and make use of his dagger (e.g. shocking grasp into dagger attack). However, this doesn't seem to work very well either. Given Dark Urge concentrates on Greated Invisibility, there's less incentive to cast Call Lightning, basically the whole reason for playing Storm Sorcerer. Then again, wetting enemies and then even only using shocking grasp is a decent damage source.
This is the build I envision for Dark Urge:
https://eip.gg/bg3/build-planner/?buildId=clv9jaisn0009d4vaxsunzlj8

If you have any input to Dark Urge in specific in order to make use of the default subclass and the bhaalist set, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Apollyon]

Ah, despite me finding very little purpose for your essay of a post being here, it does bring back memories of my first playthrough of BG3.

Funnily enough, I used your suggested canon evil companions and brought the worst out in them. My main character was an Evil Dark Urge Necromancer Drow/Mindflayer, flanked by Ascended Astarion, Dark Justiciar of Shar Shadowheart and Oathbreaker Paladin Minthara. I didn't lean into stealth at all, rather went all in with raising undead and having Minthara power them up with her Oathbreaker aura while Shadowheart provided crowd control and support and Astarion went nuclear with damage + Deathstalker Mantle invis to secure kills on low HP targets.

[Zsrai]

Astarion doesn't default to Arcane Trickster, ALL rogues do. There is no default subclass for companions (that don't start with one like Trickery for Shadowheart, anyways). It looks like you made a fine build for him, but wanted to drop that nugget in case you felt stuck as an Arcane Trickster.

[sevensided]

Originally posted by Zlorfik CH/BY:

Shadowheart

Yes, the lady of Shadows is also by default evil. Like Astarion, she needs convincing to show a more compassionate side.

Convincing? Without any conversing with her beyond the minimum required, she by default appreciates you saving Arabella from the Druids, and hates you supporting and enabling Lazeal's interrogation of Zorru. She has plenty of moments of compassion without player interference/input, but it is rather selective.


Despite her being a Cleric of Shar, she is almost certainly true Neutral. Remember, she was abducted as a child and effectively brainwashed into the cult.

The only convincing she needs is to fight said brainwashing so as not to kill the nightsong.

That said, certainly a 'canon companion of the Durge' (kind of a silly concept), simply because of her role with the prism/artifact.

[Zlorfik [CH/BY]]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Astarion doesn't default to Arcane Trickster, ALL rogues do. There is no default subclass for companions (that don't start with one like Trickery for Shadowheart, anyways). It looks like you made a fine build for him, but wanted to drop that nugget in case you felt stuck as an Arcane Trickster.

Yes they do. Default for Fighter is not Battlemaster. Default for Sorcerer is not Storm Sorcerer. Besides, he is a high elf, which have generally an affinity for arcane magic. Furthermore, the items that are quest specific for Astarion's Ascension give spell save DC and spell attack as well as healing on enemies' failed saving throws.

[Zlorfik [CH/BY]]

Originally posted by sevensided:

Originally posted by Zlorfik CH/BY:

Shadowheart

Yes, the lady of Shadows is also by default evil. Like Astarion, she needs convincing to show a more compassionate side.

Convincing? Without any conversing with her beyond the minimum required, she by default appreciates you saving Arabella from the Druids, and hates you supporting and enabling Lazeal's interrogation of Zorru. She has plenty of moments of compassion without player interference/input, but it is rather selective.


Despite her being a Cleric of Shar, she is almost certainly true Neutral. Remember, she was abducted as a child and effectively brainwashed into the cult.

The only convincing she needs is to fight said brainwashing so as not to kill the nightsong.

That said, certainly a 'canon companion of the Durge' (kind of a silly concept), simply because of her role with the prism/artifact.

So if you live 20 years being brainwashed, is your 0-8 year old experience your true identity? No. It is the 20 years brainwashed one.

She condemns many true good deeds and approves of some bad deeds. She most of all does not want to get involved (which is usually what leads to bad/evil outcomes)

[Bufnitza]

As if an evil Durge run gave you any other options...

If you truly stick by the evil Urge run, you won't have any other options than the ones above anyway!


Gale gets the Urge treatment within the first hour of play.
Wyll, Karlach and Halsin are written off for being evil in Act 1.
Jaheira's also written off, which subsequently writes off Minsc for being evil in Act 2.

So yeah, you're left with just the fantastic four.

Edit:

In fact, a truly evil Durge run will only have 3 viable companions (not counting hirelings), since Minthara won't survive sleeping with you, and even if she does, the torture in Act 2 is just too good to pass.

[sevensided]

Originally posted by Zlorfik CH/BY:

Originally posted by sevensided:

Convincing? Without any conversing with her beyond the minimum required, she by default appreciates you saving Arabella from the Druids, and hates you supporting and enabling Lazeal's interrogation of Zorru. She has plenty of moments of compassion without player interference/input, but it is rather selective.


Despite her being a Cleric of Shar, she is almost certainly true Neutral. Remember, she was abducted as a child and effectively brainwashed into the cult.

The only convincing she needs is to fight said brainwashing so as not to kill the nightsong.

That said, certainly a 'canon companion of the Durge' (kind of a silly concept), simply because of her role with the prism/artifact.

So if you live 20 years being brainwashed, is your 0-8 year old experience your true identity? No. It is the 20 years brainwashed one.

The 0-8 yo would not be her true identity, just like your 0-8 yo would not be your true identity, brainwashing or no. But the 20 years of brainwashing would not be her true identity either - that's the rub with Shadowheart. We don't know her true identity, and neither does she.
Brainwashing doesn't fit into the Nature vs Nurture spectrum.

She most of all does not want to get involved (which is usually what leads to bad/evil outcomes)

I know. That is why I said she is True Neutral. Not wanting to be involved is kind of a core aspect of true neutral.

[Zlorfik [CH/BY]]

Originally posted by sevensided:

Originally posted by Zlorfik CH/BY:

So if you live 20 years being brainwashed, is your 0-8 year old experience your true identity? No. It is the 20 years brainwashed one.

The 0-8 yo would not be her true identity, just like your 0-8 yo would not be your true identity, brainwashing or no. But the 20 years of brainwashing would not be her true identity either - that's the rub with Shadowheart. We don't know her true identity, and neither does she.
Brainwashing doesn't fit into the Nature vs Nurture spectrum.

She most of all does not want to get involved (which is usually what leads to bad/evil outcomes)

I know. That is why I said she is True Neutral. Not wanting to be involved is kind of a core aspect of true neutral.

That's fair. The not getting involved surely gives off lots of true neutral vibes, but the many ways she's bickering or approving of evil actions has me see her more towards evil. Most of her good nature comes from when she's insecure due to the flashbacks. So i think the identity she would choose if not growing up in a fanatic religious environment (neither Shar, nor Selune) would likely be good. But as you say, we can't truely know.

[Zlorfik [CH/BY]]

Originally posted by Bufnitza:

As if an evil Durge run gave you any other options...

If you truly stick by the evil Urge run, you won't have any other options than the ones above anyway!


Gale gets the Urge treatment within the first hour of play.
Wyll, Karlach and Halsin are written off for being evil in Act 1.
Jaheira's also written off, which subsequently writes off Minsc for being evil in Act 2.

So yeah, you're left with just the fantastic four.

Edit:

In fact, a truly evil Durge run will only have 3 viable companions (not counting hirelings), since Minthara won't survive sleeping with you, and even if she does, the torture in Act 2 is just too good to pass.

Given i'm a huge Minthara simp, i don't actually know what happens as Durge when sleeping with Minthara and choosing violence or how the torture plays out... Maybe i'll get my wife to play durge and showcast those options. I dont think i can resist her xD

Besides that, don't forget that there is also a potential for Astarion to bite the dust. This is already hinted at when first meeting him (he'd make a perfect pretty corpse). If for whatever reason you don't immediately kill Isobel (maybe you still want to trade), you forfeit your chance of doing the evil deed and will have to kill a companion. So far, this has always been Astarion for me, even when romancing someone else (unless Astarion is not in the party to begin with.)

[Bufnitza]

Originally posted by Zlorfik CH/BY:

If for whatever reason you don't immediately kill Isobel (maybe you still want to trade), you forfeit your chance of doing the evil deed and will have to kill a companion. So far, this has always been Astarion for me, even when romancing someone else (unless Astarion is not in the party to begin with.)

I think it's either the highest approval companion at that moment. For me, on my redemption Durge, it was Shadowheart. I have to admit.... I could not resist the temptation that time... curiosity to see how it unfolds was way too powerful, and dear, oh dear, it was... hard to stomach. It's not a fade to black, and between that and the narrator's sultry depiction of the deed.... I think I might've actually gotten aroused.