Bardadin Options

[Metallicus]

I have been researching a build I would enjoy and I keep seeing the ‘optimal’ Bardidin build being Paladin 2/Bard 10. I personally would prefer something closer to a 6/6 build because I don’t really get enough Paladin from 2 levels for my flavor.

What about something like Vengeance Paladin 6 and Lore Bard 6? I would get the main goodies of the Paladin and the Magical Secrets of the Bard at level 6? It might not be optimal, but it feels better to me from the Paladin playthrough stand point.

I would be looking at starting stats as something like 8/17/16/08/10/14 with a dex based sword and board build using medium or even light armor. I would focus my bard and Paladin spells on things without saving throws that enhance my Paladin and not control and combat spells. I would think most of my spell slots would go to my smites anyway.

I would just like to see some input from the community. I have played a Sorcerer recently and have a Bard/Warlock as well so I really wanted to try the Paladin/Bard, but with a stronger influence on the Paladin side.

[FunkyMonkey]

That is an excellent build. You get Aura of Protection, Expertise, Magical secrets, better smites, more spell variety, Cutting words... Going DEX based and having Cutting words might make me go Ancients paladin over Vengeance. Both get Misty step but Ancients is more defense oriented and I think the AoE heal is much more useful for sword & shield build than Advantage against one target per short rest.

On the spell side, I would at least have Command and Bless from Paladin at all times, rest what you want. From Bard, take rituals and out of combat spells. A lot of your spell slots will go for smites any way. After that, take some of the more situational stuff and don't take spells that are on Paladin spell list. Spells like Calm emotions, Enhance ability, Silence, Dimension door and Freedom of Movement would be good picks. with 14 CHA your DC isn't the highest, but you could use the Helmet of Arcane acuity and Ring of the mystic scoundrel combo to get your DC sky high and cast Enchantment spells as Bonus action. If you want to go that route, Command is amazing and you can pick other Enchantment spells from Bard.

For Magical secrets, for a front line build like this I think Spirit guardians is an obvious pick. After that, because you already get Misty step from Paladin Oath spells, I would pick Counterspell.

On equipment, while the Arcane acuity build is good (too good, IMO), I would just go with tanking options. Ring and Cloak of protection, Ring of free action, Helm of Balduran in Act 3, Armor of Agility (Yuan-Ti scale mail before that), Boots of Striding. For end game weapon, Belm is great. It gives you a bonus action attack every round, making you attack 3 times per round. This means that you have good options for all your actions. Misty step, AoE heal and Belm's bonus attack for bonus actions and Cutting words and Counterspell on reactions.

Honestly this build is so strong that you can do pretty much what you like.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

Swords Bard-6/Ancients Paladin-6.

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by Pan Darius Cassandra:

Swords Bard-6/Ancients Paladin-6.

I don't think the Swords bard flourishes are good enough to skip out on Cutting words and Magical secrets, though. Spirit guardians, Counterspell and Cutting words are better than Sword flourishes.

[Lightseeker]

or paladin 6 bard 3 ftr 3

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by Lightbringer:

or paladin 6 bard 3 ftr 3

I'd still rather have the Magical secrets. And with that you only get one ASI. Getting two is already bad enough, but just one?

[causality]

Originally posted by Metallicus:

I would think most of my spell slots would go to my smites anyway.

I would just like to see some input from the community. I have played a Sorcerer recently and have a Bard/Warlock as well so I really wanted to try the Paladin/Bard, but with a stronger influence on the Paladin side.

There really is no wrong way to build your character since the game is easy. I prefer 12 paladin though since with improved divine smite and Savage Attacker you're getting advantage on all your damage dice rolls and the sheer volume of damage dice you're rolling from various sources (depends on weapon too) means you can reach some high values that aren't cheaty/glitchy or abusing unintended bugs. If you want to smite you want to smite hard.

[alanc9]

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Originally posted by Pan Darius Cassandra:

Swords Bard-6/Ancients Paladin-6.

I don't think the Swords bard flourishes are good enough to skip out on Cutting words and Magical secrets, though. Spirit guardians, Counterspell and Cutting words are better than Sword flourishes.

For P6/B6, yeah. P2/SB 10 would get Magical Secrets. Although I might take Hunger of Hadar over Spirit Guardians, on the theory that the things I can melee are gonna die anyway.